Trade Thread 2017: Not Once, Not twice, But Thrice!

[claycarver]

Why is Butler on or near the market at all? Why are the Bulls even entertaining the idea of trading him?

They probably like the top 5 guys in this draft, and Butler's only signed for 2 more years, with nothing around him.

If that's the case, we're the only team they could possibly trade with right now. Any other top 5 team would be out of the top 5 with Butler on the team. If they want a top 5 pick, they'd wait till the offseason to deal Butler.

[Edug27]

You're not getting Butler without giving up Jaylen plus both Nets picks just to start conversations. Why? Because Chicago is not desperate to trade him right now. Only willing to part with him if someone (mainly the Celtics) prove to be desperate enough to do something foolish.

That's an unprecedented trade, and Chicago should realize that Ainge isn't an idiot. Would be pretty dumb to dangle Butler, if that's what they're asking.

Yep. Which is why the trade won't happen. Danny seems to be willing to wait it out. If Jaylen were in his second season avg'ing 15 pts a game like Gallinari was, then I think this trade would be much easier to get done. Too many questions marks with Jaylen and those Nets picks for a deal to happen at the deadline. And while Avery has made major strides and we all love him.... He's not headlining a Jimmy Butler trade. Not now. Not ever.

[ConstableGeneva]

I want Butler. Hate that it could cost Bradley. But, both are 2 guards. Could we trade Crowder for Butler and put Jimmy at the 3? That would be the question.


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Jimmy can play both SG and SF on offense. (Brad doesn't view positions the traditional way anyway) He's the starting SF on the Bulls with Wade there now. But I'd rather the Celtics deal Bradley (to a third team if necessary) instead of Crowder mainly because Jae's on an insanely cheap contract while Bradley's about to get a huge pay raise. There's also the Marquette connection between Jimmy and Jae. Defensively, it's also an advantage that Butler can cover 1 thru 3 (maybe even 4) then Jae can guard 3/4. Smart can pretty much guard anyone in a pinch. Having good size without compromising mobility and skill would be preferable.

Just imagine a defensive lineup of Smart/Butler/Crowder/Amir/Horford! Or if we could replace Amir with someone like Noel or Ibaka next season.

[SMTBSI]

It at least isn't a stupid idea and I wish people could have a discussion without calling anyone else's suggestions or idea stupid.

Despite not being able to speak intelligently about it, it doesn't stop them from chiming in.

Careful word choice doesn't obscure intent.

I apologize on their behalf.

I doubt Cave, truth, or any of the others, acknowledge your attempt to speak for them.

[ddb]

I like adding in Minnesota, but wouldn't give Chicago BKN 2018 too. Brown, Crowder & MN 2017 is plenty. They aren't trading LeBron.

So, Bradley, KO, Young, 2017 MIN 2nd, Crowder, Brown, Zeller, unprotected 2017 MIN 1st, BKN 18, MEM '19 1st out - Butler, Mcdermott, Dieng, Muhammad in?

Dude that's a bad trade. You're letting Dieng's meeting of a short-term need skew how you're evaluating the whole thing.

I don't want Dieng and don't want to give up BKN2018. However, I'm pretty sure Chicago will insist on BKN 2017 & Crowder, or not do a trade... I'd do something like this, and Minnesota would have to give up more...

Boston gets - Butler & Gibson
Boston deals - Crowder, Bradley, Olynyk, Zeller, BKN2017

MN gets - Bradley, & Olynyk
MN deals - LaVine & Tyus Jones

Chicago gets - BKN2017, Crowder, LaVine, Zeller & Tyus Jones
Chicago deals - Butler & Gibson

Chicago gets 2 starters and 25% shot at Fultz. Boston gets a star, adds some interior toughness with Gibson, and maintain cap space. Minnesota gets a veteran in AB and Olynyk should pair well with Towns.

I need more out of this deal to feel comfortable. Something about it makes me feel uneasy.

I bet Danny keeps the 2017 pick thru the lotto. He Probably feels like it is the Celts time to finally land the top pick.

I also feel like Danny thinks he has a shot at Anthony Davis if he gets the #1 or 2. Danny shoots for the stars. I feel like they don't want Boogie...i feel like they love Butler and George but only at their price....but for Davis Danny would unload the entire pool of assets for him. Wouldn't you agree?

Hypothetically we land #1. #1, BK18, JBrown, Bradley, Zizic, Memphis pick, Boston 2018 pick and Clippers pick for Davis and take Moore off their books too.
That seriously might get it done.

We land Hayward in free agency and back up the bricks truck to extend IT.

IT-HAYWARD-CROWDER-DAVIS-HORFORD
Rozier-Smart-Moore-yabusele-Vet FA, vet FA, etc.

That's a team Capable of winning rings

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[CelticFaninLBC]

I want Butler. Hate that it could cost Bradley. But, both are 2 guards. Could we trade Crowder for Butler and put Jimmy at the 3? That would be the question.


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I think it costs Boston 2 of Crowder, AB and Smart. I'd rather keep Smart, as he's more versatile and younger.

[ddb]

I want Butler. Hate that it could cost Bradley. But, both are 2 guards. Could we trade Crowder for Butler and put Jimmy at the 3? That would be the question.

Yes, but why would you want to keep Bradley over Crowder? I think Crowder's better, more versatile, and has the additional years.

Crowder is solid, but not on Bradley's level. I'm sorry. People underestimate AB on this board. It needs to end. Dude is legit

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[truth18]

I want Butler. Hate that it could cost Bradley. But, both are 2 guards. Could we trade Crowder for Butler and put Jimmy at the 3? That would be the question.

Yes, but why would you want to keep Bradley over Crowder? I think Crowder's better, more versatile, and has the additional years.

Crowder is solid, but not on Bradley's level. I'm sorry. People underestimate AB on this board. It needs to end. Dude is legit

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Yup. He's significantly better.

[truth18]

It at least isn't a stupid idea and I wish people could have a discussion without calling anyone else's suggestions or idea stupid.

Despite not being able to speak intelligently about it, it doesn't stop them from chiming in.

Careful word choice doesn't obscure intent.

I apologize on their behalf.

I doubt Cave, truth, or any of the others, acknowledge your attempt to speak for them.

Not sure how my name came up here but I'm guessing it's some ironic radical misrepresentation of my general thoughts on our future/direction taken from laughing at that Knicks fans' asinine trade idea.

Nothing against that Knicks fan. He was cool and owned up to it, unlike our lightsaber wielding friend.

[Banks2Pierce]

Crowder is solid, but not on Bradley's level. I'm sorry. People underestimate AB on this board. It needs to end. Dude is legit

I think it's the opposite as far as AB's reputation. Bradley's improved on offense, but more than given it back on the other end. Even with the rebounding added, he's turning into an actual problem on D. He's still valuable and plays a scarce position very well, but Crowder is a 2 way stud that deserves the rep that Bradley has.

[Captain_Caveman]

My bad lol.

But to be fair, your suggestion was not good. I mean, 3rd to 9th is not just Porzingis for Kaminsky, but also Chris Paul for Ike Diogu, Jordan for Otis Thorpe, Embiid for Noah Vonleh...

Might work out for you, but it'd be insane to risk it.

Haha it's cool. But yea in those drafts of course that'd be dumb...I just think that this draft is really deep with players on a similar level to each other. I guess it's all how you value each individual player.

Like Ball is a phenomenal passer, but has his flaws...like a tendency to take crazy Steph type 3's like 2 seconds into the shot clock, and can be lazy on defense sometimes. Smith Jr had that ACL surgery which concerns me but he's still a great all around pg.

But then Frank looks like he can be a freak at the pg position who can guard 3 positions...like a Rondo without the mental issues and a better shot with Giannis type wingspan...almost 7 feet and he's 6'5". And Fox is similar with his playmaking, length, and defense but is extremely quick. If he improves his shot to be more consistent, he'll be nuts.

I'm not trying to convince anyone lol...just trying to help you understand what my thought process was when I mentioned the deal.

I apologize on their behalf. Many aren't aware just how deep and talented the draft class is. They don't see that there's very little separation between players 1 through 10. It doesn't mean #1 isn't elite, it means #10 is as well. Despite not being able to speak intelligently about it, it doesn't stop them from chiming in. This draft class is among the best ever. Going from #1 to #10 is NOT akin to going from Porzingis to Kaminsky. Team A could take DSJ at #3 and Team B could take Fox at #10 and Fox might have the better career because he's just as talented and elite.

You may not know that we view Zizic as our future Center and Yabusele as future PF depth so the need for a plodding center, albeit young and affordable Nurkic just isn't that enticing to some even if it does help address our rebounding issues and give us option going forward. Stevens prefers his bigs to have the ability to stretch the floor and Olynyk and Horford already do that. It'd be nice to get an upgrade to Zeller and Amir but you won't convince many here that Nurkic is, and it gets harder when they try to wrap their heads around trading down in the draft.

My take is that

IT-Rozier
AB-Smart
Crowder-Brown
Horford-Amir
Nurkic-KO

makes us a better team and that deal is worth considering. And then going forward we replace KO and Amir with Yabusele, Zizic and whoever we take at #9 (Leaf, Adebayo, Rabb, Markkanen, Giles if we're going front court) or (Fox, Monk, Diallo if we're looking to prepare for losing AB or IT). We're golden either way but with Nurkic it makes us slightly better this year and gives us a cheap backup for a couple years and a trade chip if we decide not to keep. I said I'd consider it. Not necessarily do it. It at least isn't a stupid idea and I wish people could have a discussion without calling anyone else's suggestions or idea stupid.

You have to consider that fans here are hoping for an even bigger splash that might help put us over the top this season, future considerations like a cheap controllable big be damned...like Noel or Bogut who won't cost us as much as they believe going from #3 to #9 would. And still more prefer a major trade like Butler who for sure could move us into ECF territory easily but might cost BK picks.

Every draft is different. I think that sometimes you have the top one is better than other drafts (or) the top two. This one is a little bit more equal in the top few picks of the draft as it appears right now. This is something that we're spending all our time (on). We have people all over the world evaluating this as we speak. So I think that at this point in time, I think that, yeah, there's four or five guys -- there's not a lot of separation at the top of this draft.

[truth18]

Crowder is solid, but not on Bradley's level. I'm sorry. People underestimate AB on this board. It needs to end. Dude is legit

I think it's the opposite as far as AB's reputation. Bradley's improved on offense, but more than given it back on the other end. Even with the rebounding added, he's turning into an actual problem on D. He's still valuable and plays a scarce position very well, but Crowder is a 2 way stud that deserves the rep that Bradley has.

No way. Crowder is great for the price, and I've been a big fan of his since day -1 (I follow the Mavs as well), but AB is simply a better all around player on both ends. The defensive deficiencies you are noticing have more to do with Horford's inconsistent production and ET leaving. AB has to make up for those absences on offense almost every other night.

[SMTBSI]

Not sure how my name came up here but I'm guessing it's some ironic radical misrepresentation of my general thoughts on our future/direction taken from laughing at that Knicks fans' asinine trade idea.

Nothing against that Knicks fan. He was cool and owned up to it, unlike our lightsaber weilding friend.

Nope, no problem with spree either, he's cool. Trade proposal was terrible, but that's a sin we've all sinned.

It's jrob apologizing "on behalf of" the people who didn't like spree's trade idea, and all the back-handed stuff in this post, that I take exception to.

[Writebloc]

Haha it's cool. But yea in those drafts of course that'd be dumb...I just think that this draft is really deep with players on a similar level to each other. I guess it's all how you value each individual player.

Like Ball is a phenomenal passer, but has his flaws...like a tendency to take crazy Steph type 3's like 2 seconds into the shot clock, and can be lazy on defense sometimes. Smith Jr had that ACL surgery which concerns me but he's still a great all around pg.

But then Frank looks like he can be a freak at the pg position who can guard 3 positions...like a Rondo without the mental issues and a better shot with Giannis type wingspan...almost 7 feet and he's 6'5". And Fox is similar with his playmaking, length, and defense but is extremely quick. If he improves his shot to be more consistent, he'll be nuts.

I'm not trying to convince anyone lol...just trying to help you understand what my thought process was when I mentioned the deal.

I apologize on their behalf. Many aren't aware just how deep and talented the draft class is. They don't see that there's very little separation between players 1 through 10. It doesn't mean #1 isn't elite, it means #10 is as well. Despite not being able to speak intelligently about it, it doesn't stop them from chiming in. This draft class is among the best ever. Going from #1 to #10 is NOT akin to going from Porzingis to Kaminsky. Team A could take DSJ at #3 and Team B could take Fox at #10 and Fox might have the better career because he's just as talented and elite.

You may not know that we view Zizic as our future Center and Yabusele as future PF depth so the need for a plodding center, albeit young and affordable Nurkic just isn't that enticing to some even if it does help address our rebounding issues and give us option going forward. Stevens prefers his bigs to have the ability to stretch the floor and Olynyk and Horford already do that. It'd be nice to get an upgrade to Zeller and Amir but you won't convince many here that Nurkic is, and it gets harder when they try to wrap their heads around trading down in the draft.

My take is that

IT-Rozier
AB-Smart
Crowder-Brown
Horford-Amir
Nurkic-KO

makes us a better team and that deal is worth considering. And then going forward we replace KO and Amir with Yabusele, Zizic and whoever we take at #9 (Leaf, Adebayo, Rabb, Markkanen, Giles if we're going front court) or (Fox, Monk, Diallo if we're looking to prepare for losing AB or IT). We're golden either way but with Nurkic it makes us slightly better this year and gives us a cheap backup for a couple years and a trade chip if we decide not to keep. I said I'd consider it. Not necessarily do it. It at least isn't a stupid idea and I wish people could have a discussion without calling anyone else's suggestions or idea stupid.

You have to consider that fans here are hoping for an even bigger splash that might help put us over the top this season, future considerations like a cheap controllable big be damned...like Noel or Bogut who won't cost us as much as they believe going from #3 to #9 would. And still more prefer a major trade like Butler who for sure could move us into ECF territory easily but might cost BK picks.

Every draft is different. I think that sometimes you have the top one is better than other drafts (or) the top two. This one is a little bit more equal in the top few picks of the draft as it appears right now. This is something that we're spending all our time (on). We have people all over the world evaluating this as we speak. So I think that at this point in time, I think that, yeah, there's four or five guys -- there's not a lot of separation at the top of this draft.

Obviously you're not clued into the fact that jrob is a better evaluator of draft talent than Danny Ainge or probably anyone else in the world. It's amazing he's willing to share his pearls of wisdom with the "plebs" of this lowly board.

Anywho...

Nets are so terrible at this point I think it maybe making Celtic's fans a bit overconfident that no matter who they pick in this draft the prospect will pan out. Undoubtedly one of these "can't miss" prospects are going to miss. A bird in hand is better than two in the bush. Danny has a difficult task making his choice for the direction of the franchise. At least he's given himself plenty of options.

[Captain_Caveman]

Nets are so terrible at this point I think it maybe making Celtic's fans a bit overconfident that no matter who they pick in this draft the prospect will pan out. Undoubtedly one of these "can't miss" prospects are going to miss. A bird in hand is better than two in the bush. Danny has a difficult task making his choice for the direction of the franchise. At least he's given himself plenty of options.

There is risk to assess on all sides. I know which option I'm going with if the choice is between risking both Nets picks busting in strong drafts vs Butler's knees not exploding, though.

[Andrew McCeltic]

I like adding in Minnesota, but wouldn't give Chicago BKN 2018 too. Brown, Crowder & MN 2017 is plenty. They aren't trading LeBron.

So, Bradley, KO, Young, 2017 MIN 2nd, Crowder, Brown, Zeller, unprotected 2017 MIN 1st, BKN 18, MEM '19 1st out - Butler, Mcdermott, Dieng, Muhammad in?

Dude that's a bad trade. You're letting Dieng's meeting of a short-term need skew how you're evaluating the whole thing.

No we keep BK 17 in this scenario. And also have a max salary spot, Zizic, Yabusele

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We keep BKN 17, lose BKN 18 and Brown, lose Bradley AND Crowder.

And we lose a max salary spot - Dieng isn't on his rookie deal anymore, he just got a big extension.

[Andrew McCeltic]

I think leveraging Minnesota's desire to get better could work for us - Bradley to MIN, Shabazz, maybe Rubio to CHI, Butler to BOS.

[Writebloc]

Nets are so terrible at this point I think it maybe making Celtic's fans a bit overconfident that no matter who they pick in this draft the prospect will pan out. Undoubtedly one of these "can't miss" prospects are going to miss. A bird in hand is better than two in the bush. Danny has a difficult task making his choice for the direction of the franchise. At least he's given himself plenty of options.

There is risk to assess on all sides. I know which option I'm going with if the choice is between risking both Nets picks busting in strong drafts vs Butler's knees not exploding, though.

I get it, Butler isn't a slam dunk, an excellent player, but it all comes down to price and value. His contract doesn't move the needle for you? If Ainge is able to to get Butler only giving up one of Jaylen, Nets' 17, or Nets' 18 do you pull the trigger?

Especially if Ainge can pull of a secondary move for either Noel or Millsap?

[CelticFaninLBC]

I think leveraging Minnesota's desire to get better could work for us - Bradley to MIN, Shabazz, maybe Rubio to CHI, Butler to BOS.

Agree with you about Dieng's contract, but that's an awful return for Chicago.

[Andrew McCeltic]

IDK, actually - if CHI wants to move Butler before he becomes a problem, they might think Rubio's undervalued and be happy to get a few younger players and picks.