Trade Thread 2017: Not Once, Not twice, But Thrice!

[Curmudgeon]

I do one of Jaylen or the BKN 18 with whatever else they want, but not both and not the BKN 17.

That's about where I am on Butler as well. He just doesn't do it for me, especially so long as IT remains a Celtic. In the 4th quarter of close games the ball will be in IT's hands, not Butler's, and Butler becomes what Love has become in Cleveland-- a spot up shooter. The difference is that Love is shooting nearly 40% from beyond the arc, while Butler is under 35%.

Butler is a nice defender but so is Bradley, a player you would likely have to give up to get Butler. And Bradley is shooting nearly 42% from three point range, seven percentage points higher than Butler.

Would you trade IT and Bradley plus non BKN picks for Butler?

I would.

Smart
Butler/Rozier
Crowder/Jaylen
Millsapp
Zizic

Plus a top 5 pick?

Thug life.

I would not. IT is a unique player who does three things that are uber valuable in today's NBA game: 1. gets to the rim. 2. shoots the three ball. 3. Makes his free throws. I'm willing to live with his defensive deficiencies, just as the Rockets live with Harden's. If you think about it, IT is a pint-sized Harden, and even when they back up the Brink's truck, IT will cost considerably less than Harden.

[OFWGKTA]

I do one of Jaylen or the BKN 18 with whatever else they want, but not both and not the BKN 17.

That's about where I am on Butler as well. He just doesn't do it for me, especially so long as IT remains a Celtic. In the 4th quarter of close games the ball will be in IT's hands, not Butler's, and Butler becomes what Love has become in Cleveland-- a spot up shooter. The difference is that Love is shooting nearly 40% from beyond the arc, while Butler is under 35%.

Butler is a nice defender but so is Bradley, a player you would likely have to give up to get Butler. And Bradley is shooting nearly 42% from three point range, seven percentage points higher than Butler.

Would you trade IT and Bradley plus non BKN picks for Butler?

I would.

Smart
Butler/Rozier
Crowder/Jaylen
Millsapp
Zizic

Plus a top 5 pick?

Thug life.

No Horford?

[Marvel]

It's possible Butler's overrated, by the way. Or that Chicago underrates him. Rubio is definitely underrated right now. Avery and Amir are underrated, but if we want a star (and aren't overrating Butler), that's the kind of triangular deal where you can really profit.

lolwut?

Wut? We've had that debate on this board - prior to this season, he's been a good offensive player. Not an elite one. His defense and size are big draws - prototypical size for the position, elite defense, good offense. You could argue his offense this season is based on how talent has thinned out and defenses have gone a little slack.

Or, you could say Jimmy has a high work ethic and has legitimately improved to be one of the best scorers in the league.

[Fencer reregistered]

Why did Chris Wallace deal Pau Gasol for a 1st?

That wasn't exactly the deal -- although saying that begs the question of why, if he was so high on Gasol the Younger, he didn't find a way to draft him in the first place.

[Celts17Pride]

You guys don't get it.

When was the last time a star player was traded?

The league has set things up where there is no longer a need to trade stars. The rising salary cap and allowing teams to pay much more than other teams to keep their own players kills major trades. Every team has multiple chances to get better.

Unless you have a disgruntled star player that wants to leave their current situation you won't see star players move.

It's all about management, drafting and development now. Just like the league wants.

[Andrew McCeltic]

Why did Chris Wallace deal Pau Gasol for a 1st?

That wasn't exactly the deal -- although saying that begs the question of why, if he was so high on Gasol the Younger, he didn't find a way to draft him in the first place.

I know, I was being glib, but my big picture point stands that we may be seeing a deep shift in the trade market.

[Captain_Caveman]

That's about where I am on Butler as well. He just doesn't do it for me, especially so long as IT remains a Celtic. In the 4th quarter of close games the ball will be in IT's hands, not Butler's, and Butler becomes what Love has become in Cleveland-- a spot up shooter. The difference is that Love is shooting nearly 40% from beyond the arc, while Butler is under 35%.

Butler is a nice defender but so is Bradley, a player you would likely have to give up to get Butler. And Bradley is shooting nearly 42% from three point range, seven percentage points higher than Butler.

Would you trade IT and Bradley plus non BKN picks for Butler?

I would.

Smart
Butler/Rozier
Crowder/Jaylen
Millsapp
Zizic

Plus a top 5 pick?

Thug life.

No Horford?

Brain fart. Meant Horford, not Millsap.

[Captain_Caveman]

You guys don't get it.

When was the last time a star player was traded?

The league has set things up where there is no longer a need to trade stars. The rising salary cap and allowing teams to pay much more than other teams to keep their own players kills major trades. Every team has multiple chances to get better.

Unless you have a disgruntled star player that wants to leave their current situation you won't see star players move.

It's all about management, drafting and development now. Just like the league wants.

No doubt, but not how you are phrasing it. The last CBA had a huge flaw in incentivizing guys playing out their contracts, and no real incentive to resign with their teams. The minimally larger raises with a guaranteed 5th year was not cutting it. This new CBA is apparently eliminating that by making it easier for teams to extend in advance (hence Cousins being eligible for $200m a year prior to free agency). That's a killer for elite player movement, and all the more reason to consider standing pat rather than get taken to the woodshed for multiple top 5 picks.

[Celts17Pride]

You guys don't get it.

When was the last time a star player was traded?

The league has set things up where there is no longer a need to trade stars. The rising salary cap and allowing teams to pay much more than other teams to keep their own players kills major trades. Every team has multiple chances to get better.

Unless you have a disgruntled star player that wants to leave their current situation you won't see star players move.

It's all about management, drafting and development now. Just like the league wants.

No doubt, but not how you are phrasing it. The last CBA had a huge flaw in incentivizing guys playing out their contracts, and no real incentive to resign with their teams. The minimally larger raises with a guaranteed 5th year was not cutting it. This new CBA is apparently eliminating that by making it easier for teams to extend in advance (hence Cousins being eligible for $200m a year prior to free agency). That's a killer for elite player movement, and all the more reason to consider standing pat rather than get taken to the woodshed for multiple top 5 picks.

Point remains the same, star players won't be traded. There is no incentive to trade them.

Only players who could be traded are second or third line stars like Millsap, Gallinari etc. Players who think the are worth $30 million per year and their present teams won't do it.

[Curmudgeon]

This new CBA is apparently eliminating that by making it easier for teams to extend in advance (hence Cousins being eligible for $200m a year prior to free agency). That's a killer for elite player movement, and all the more reason to consider standing pat rather than get taken to the woodshed for multiple top 5 picks.

Especially top 5 picks in two outstanding drafts. The 2017 and 2018 drafts together will produce 10-12 all stars. I can't believe Ainge is seriously considering trading the 2017 Brooklyn pick for anything less than Anthony Davis or Karl Anthony Towns. Even Ainge can't screw up the 2017 draft. You could play pin the tail on the donkey and come up with a future all star.

[Andrew McCeltic]

Yeah, so, like I'm saying, no one has figured this out yet, or found the optimal strategy for building a team.

[chrisab123]

You guys don't get it.

When was the last time a star player was traded?

The league has set things up where there is no longer a need to trade stars. The rising salary cap and allowing teams to pay much more than other teams to keep their own players kills major trades. Every team has multiple chances to get better.

Unless you have a disgruntled star player that wants to leave their current situation you won't see star players move.

It's all about management, drafting and development now. Just like the league wants.

No doubt, but not how you are phrasing it. The last CBA had a huge flaw in incentivizing guys playing out their contracts, and no real incentive to resign with their teams. The minimally larger raises with a guaranteed 5th year was not cutting it. This new CBA is apparently eliminating that by making it easier for teams to extend in advance (hence Cousins being eligible for $200m a year prior to free agency). That's a killer for elite player movement, and all the more reason to consider standing pat rather than get taken to the woodshed for multiple top 5 picks.

Point remains the same, star players won't be traded. There is no incentive to trade them.

Only players who could be traded are second or third line stars like Millsap, Gallinari etc. Players who think the are worth $30 million per year and their present teams won't do it.

Well that's not entirely accurate. I could see a team like Memphis decide to tear it down eventually and trade Gasol. Top 20 guy when healthy. Superstar players probably won't be traded unless they just really push a trade out of town. Boston could still possibly land a Hayward or Blake in FA though. That's probably the play for Ainge.

[Celts17Pride]

In the history of the NBA teams only trade star players for the following reasons:

1. Star players past their prime (Pierce, Garnett) or disgruntled (Melo)

2. The NBA team is in deep financial trouble, losing money.

3. The NBA team thinks they will lose the player for nothing.

The new CBA all but eliminates #2 and #3. All teams are healthy and making money. All teams can offer a lot more than other teams to their own players. I'm not expecting a star player to be traded for a very long time. There is just no reason for the team with the star player to do so especially because star players are so few.

Again it's all about cap management, drafting and development. It's what the NBA wants.

Thankfully because of Ainge the Celtics are in great shape.

[Writebloc]

Mike Zarren also makes a huge difference...

[reload141]

AD with 40/18/2/3 going into the 4th against the Knicks... I know it's not realistic but damn with this guy we could legit contend.

[chrisab123]

Another thing that will offset some of this big money. Do not underestimate the power of Under Armor Adidas and Nike. Some of Durant going to GSW was driven with a marketing stand point. Fact is he would be able to get more revenue dollars for everyone involved in a market like San Francisco than Boston. All this CBA will do is make Nike pay these guys 500 million instead of 300 to control where they end up going.

[sixers4real]

Okafor, LAC 2019 to Atanta
Crowder to Philly
Millsap, Covington to Boston

smth like this maybe?

[Celts17Pride]

Another thing that will offset some of this big money. Do not underestimate the power of Under Armor Adidas and Nike. Some of Durant going to GSW was driven with a marketing stand point. Fact is he would be able to get more revenue dollars for everyone involved in a market like San Francisco than Boston. All this CBA will do is make Nike pay these guys 500 million instead of 300 to control where they end up going.

Stretching

[Celts17Pride]

Okafor, LAC 2019 to Atanta
Crowder to Philly
Millsap, Covington to Boston

smth like this maybe?

Millsap off the market

[Captain_Caveman]

Another thing that will offset some of this big money. Do not underestimate the power of Under Armor Adidas and Nike. Some of Durant going to GSW was driven with a marketing stand point. Fact is he would be able to get more revenue dollars for everyone involved in a market like San Francisco than Boston. All this CBA will do is make Nike pay these guys 500 million instead of 300 to control where they end up going.

The shoe thing had nothing much to do with it. Dray and Iggy got in his ear early, like over a year ago.