Butler trade rumor - KC Johnson update: pg 63

[robbie84]

I kind of feel bad for the tankers, because even though Jimmy talks makes me worried at WTF they are doing, my saner side says they are only teasing the tankers, and are only holding him out there in the hail mary hope that someone offers them the entire farm - typical Bulls FO mentality - and there is little chance anyone will. Especially Ainge, who is also notoriously stingy.

I wouldn't be surprised if the rest of the league FO's think little of GarPax's value assessments.

The downside in dangling your star like this, for a return very unlikely to be given, is you piss him off and hurt the locker room cohesion of a team that's already been shaky on that front.

As an outsider with limited knowledge, it would appear that the Bulls FO haven't got much confidence in building around Butler. I could be completely wrong obviously.
They (garpax) have screwed you guys a fair bit it seems.
Does anyone here think they'd take the #1 pick for Butler in a straight swap to give themselves another few years of burning chicago down from within & saving their jobs?

I'm reading some ridiculous trade proposals from C's fans and Bulls fans, but for a FO that is trying to save their own necks, what other opportunities are there going to be to get anything close to the #1 pick in the near future?
If Jimmy gets fed up with losing and starts publicly talking smack-garpax must be worried about such a scenario and the public backlash

From the C's POV, Jimmy is the guy we need to really compete to at least pretend to be a threat to CLE.
But i also cant remember multiple top 5 picks being dealt for a star in the last 10 years.
Talk of both Brooklyn picks and Jaylen Brown is simply ridiculous.

That's essentially 3 top 5 picks for a guy who is certainly a top 15 player, but not in the Lebron/Durant/Curry level of MVP caliber superstars.
Hope this makes sense and doesnt start WW3 lol.

Reading this thread i dont think that Garpax employment situation is being taken into account enough. Xesperate GMs make desperate moves to buy time.
I could see Ainge doing something like:
-17' BRK pick
-Crowder
-2019 memphis pick
-Terry Rozier
-Amr Johnson for filler
But thats being generous for Ainge, very generous.

[Rerisen]

Does anyone here think they'd take the #1 pick for Butler in a straight swap to give themselves another few years of burning chicago down from within & saving their jobs?

They won't be allowed to make a desperate move to buy themselves years, because the one that runs the real agenda in Chicago is Jerry Reinsdorf. And he wants competitive teams, fans in the seats, and at least a few games of home playoff revenue.

Even when Jimmy was being shopped in the summer, some reports were that the Bulls were looking for players that would keep them competitive right now, and not some kind of long view rebuild team, not just a plethora of picks.

In other words he wasn't being shopped because the team had hit a dead end and wanted to start over, but rather because his attitude was in question, and they maybe were just thinking about bringing in equal but different talent, to build around.

I'm sure a pick was part of that, but in addition they wanted some players that would prevent them from going all the way into the cellar. Which to me sounds like a high asking price unlikely to be fulfilled.

[Chitownbulls]

Only way Boston gets 27yr old Jimmy Butler is giving us both picks. Jimmy is a superstar, an we would be trading within our own conference, Bostons picks are rookies who still havent proven anything. If Ainge wants Butler, he has to trade the picks.

[Ralphb07]

Does anyone here think they'd take the #1 pick for Butler in a straight swap to give themselves another few years of burning chicago down from within & saving their jobs?

They won't be allowed to make a desperate move to buy themselves years, because the one that runs the real agenda in Chicago is Jerry Reinsdorf. And he wants competitive teams, fans in the seats, and at least a few games of home playoff revenue.

Even when Jimmy was being shopped in the summer, some reports were that the Bulls were looking for players that would keep them competitive right now, and not some kind of long view rebuild team, not just a plethora of picks.

In other words he wasn't being shopped because the team had hit a dead end and wanted to start over, but rather because his attitude was in question, and they maybe were just thinking about bringing in equal but different talent, to build around.

I'm sure a pick was part of that, but in addition they wanted some players that would prevent them from going all the way into the cellar. Which to me sounds like a high asking price unlikely to be fulfilled.

What you first said is why people should fear a Jimmy trade. The interest level is low and I bet he is seeing drops in merchandise sales, suite sales etc. Him not getting revenue might make him say blow it up and regroup. Keep in mind they didn't make the playoffs last year so no revenue there and it likely none this season. Reasons why he didn't blow it up before aren't there right now so if I was Bulls fans Id be on edge a bit

[Rerisen]

Does anyone here think they'd take the #1 pick for Butler in a straight swap to give themselves another few years of burning chicago down from within & saving their jobs?

They won't be allowed to make a desperate move to buy themselves years, because the one that runs the real agenda in Chicago is Jerry Reinsdorf. And he wants competitive teams, fans in the seats, and at least a few games of home playoff revenue.

Even when Jimmy was being shopped in the summer, some reports were that the Bulls were looking for players that would keep them competitive right now, and not some kind of long view rebuild team, not just a plethora of picks.

In other words he wasn't being shopped because the team had hit a dead end and wanted to start over, but rather because his attitude was in question, and they maybe were just thinking about bringing in equal but different talent, to build around.

I'm sure a pick was part of that, but in addition they wanted some players that would prevent them from going all the way into the cellar. Which to me sounds like a high asking price unlikely to be fulfilled.

What you first said is why people should fear a Jimmy trade. The interest level is low and I bet he is seeing drops in merchandise sales, suite sales etc. Him not getting revenue might make him say blow it up and regroup. Keep in mind they didn't make the playoffs last year so no revenue there and it likely none this season. Reasons why he didn't blow it up before aren't there right now so if I was Bulls fans Id be on edge a bit

But blowing it up guarantees further loss of sales and seats for likely 3-4 more years. Most casual fans aren't going to hang around because some inconsistent kid is supposed to be the savior in 4 years, while meanwhile you are losing 55 games. That's a hardcore fan mentality.

Comparatively the current team shouldn't be hard to tweak to the playoffs at the deadline if we really tried, or even if we missed the playoffs, to then make a few offseason moves to fix it back up for next year.

Blowing it up is entering unknown territory where you could be bad for 7 or 10 years in a worst case. While it could be said its the longest but most likely gamble to get a megastar to eventually win with, that does not seem like Jerry at all. He's more of a play it safe guy, secure a decent team first then worry about finding the lucky steps to be a contender.

I would think if this FO keeps failing their very modest instruction, make the playoffs, instead of blowing it up, ownership would look to replace them with someone that can accomplish that.

[Ralphb07]

They won't be allowed to make a desperate move to buy themselves years, because the one that runs the real agenda in Chicago is Jerry Reinsdorf. And he wants competitive teams, fans in the seats, and at least a few games of home playoff revenue.

Even when Jimmy was being shopped in the summer, some reports were that the Bulls were looking for players that would keep them competitive right now, and not some kind of long view rebuild team, not just a plethora of picks.

In other words he wasn't being shopped because the team had hit a dead end and wanted to start over, but rather because his attitude was in question, and they maybe were just thinking about bringing in equal but different talent, to build around.

I'm sure a pick was part of that, but in addition they wanted some players that would prevent them from going all the way into the cellar. Which to me sounds like a high asking price unlikely to be fulfilled.

What you first said is why people should fear a Jimmy trade. The interest level is low and I bet he is seeing drops in merchandise sales, suite sales etc. Him not getting revenue might make him say blow it up and regroup. Keep in mind they didn't make the playoffs last year so no revenue there and it likely none this season. Reasons why he didn't blow it up before aren't there right now so if I was Bulls fans Id be on edge a bit

But blowing it up guarantees further loss of sales and seats for likely 3-4 more years.

While the current team shouldn't be hard to tweak to the playoffs at the deadline if we really tried, or even if we missed the playoffs, to then make a few offseason moves to fix it back up for next year.

Blowing it up is entering unknown territory where you could be bad for 7 or 10 years in a worst case. While it could be said its the longest but most likely gamble to get a megastar to eventually win with, that does not seem like Jerry at all. He's more of a play it safe guy, secure a decent team first then worry about finding the lucky steps to be a contender.

or 1-2 years best case. I get the negativity but people need to stop acting like failing is the only option. Teams usually blow it up when they are losing money and not competetitve.

[Chitownbulls]

Rondo for Jahlil Okafor

[Rerisen]

or 1-2 years best case. I get the negativity but people need to stop acting like failing is the only option. Teams usually blow it up when they are losing money and not competetitve.

John Paxson and Gar Foreman are going to turn around a nuclear option in 1 or 2 years?

If they sell that successively to Jerry, he is denser than I thought.

Last time we went to the bottom, it took 7 years to even get back to the playoffs and we blew through six top 4 picks before we landed a real franchise player.

[Ralphb07]

or 1-2 years best case. I get the negativity but people need to stop acting like failing is the only option. Teams usually blow it up when they are losing money and not competetitve.

John Paxson and Gar Foreman are going to turn around a nuclear option in 1 or 2 years?

If they sell that successively to Jerry, he is denser than I thought.

It's not like Paxson hasn't done it twice already

[Rerisen]

or 1-2 years best case. I get the negativity but people need to stop acting like failing is the only option. Teams usually blow it up when they are losing money and not competetitve.

John Paxson and Gar Foreman are going to turn around a nuclear option in 1 or 2 years?

If they sell that successively to Jerry, he is denser than I thought.

It's not like Paxson hasn't done it twice already

Getting Derrick Rose out of the 9 spot isn't really Paxson doing it that is just luck. He capitalized on the luck once it happened, but that's not the same as doing it without it.

Also Paxson didn't want that job anymore and there is no indication he wants it back.

[Ralphb07]

John Paxson and Gar Foreman are going to turn around a nuclear option in 1 or 2 years?

If they sell that successively to Jerry, he is denser than I thought.

It's not like Paxson hasn't done it twice already

Getting Derrick Rose out of the 9 spot isn't really Paxson doing it that is just luck. He capitalized on the luck once it happened, but that's not the same as doing it without it.

Also Paxson didn't want that job anymore and there is no indication he wants it back.

But you seem to have faith with them building around Jimmy? Sounds like trying to paint a better picture for your stance.

[Rerisen]

It's not like Paxson hasn't done it twice already

Getting Derrick Rose out of the 9 spot isn't really Paxson doing it that is just luck. He capitalized on the luck once it happened, but that's not the same as doing it without it.

Also Paxson didn't want that job anymore and there is no indication he wants it back.

But you seem to have faith with them building around Jimmy? Sounds like trying to paint a better picture for your stance.

No I don't have faith in them building around Jimmy either. I just see failing to build around Jimmy as the path likely to replace them sooner.

If they get the ticket to a rebuild, seems to me they get granted 3 years minimum. Maybe even 5.

But if they fail to build around Jimmy, fired or not, at least the team wins half its games, is watchable and might have an exciting playoffs or two. While if they fail to rebuild, then the team loses 60 games every year for x many years.

If you have high faith in the FO, then you might favor a rebuild, as you expect they'll have success doing it. What I've seen the last few years, I have little faith in them. Even their drafting strength has waned.

[Chicago-Bull-E]

Can anyone put together a plan for how this team built around butler can win a championship?

Not vague talk about a star or two joining. Who coupd join, when they'd join, who the bulls would give up or lose due to salary cap and why that team would beat golden state or Cleveland during jimmys prime years?

[Ralphb07]

Getting Derrick Rose out of the 9 spot isn't really Paxson doing it that is just luck. He capitalized on the luck once it happened, but that's not the same as doing it without it.

Also Paxson didn't want that job anymore and there is no indication he wants it back.

But you seem to have faith with them building around Jimmy? Sounds like trying to paint a better picture for your stance.

No I don't have faith in them building around Jimmy either. I just see failing to build around Jimmy as the path likely to replace them sooner.

If they get the ticket to a rebuild, seems to me they get granted 3 years minimum.

But if they fail to build around Jimmy, fired or not, at least the team wins half its games, is watchable and might have an exciting playoffs or two. If they fail to rebuild, then the team loses 60 games every year for x many years.

I just want the team to improve regardless so I'm open to any deal that does that. I don't care who's doing it

[Rerisen]

I just want the team to improve regardless so I'm open to any deal that does that. I don't care who's doing it

I'm sure there has to be some price that would make it worth it, and actually I think they are probably asking for that, but its unlikely to be met.

[TheGOATRises007]

Can anyone put together a plan for how this team built around butler can win a championship?

Not vague talk about a star or two joining. Who coupd join, when they'd join, who the bulls would give up or lose due to salary cap and why that team would beat golden state or Cleveland during jimmys prime years?

Well I don't have faith in GarPax doing this.

But I don't know who the potential FA are in 2018.

Fact is, if you are a winning team with Butler, players will want to join IMO.

[Ralphb07]

Can anyone put together a plan for how this team built around butler can win a championship?

Not vague talk about a star or two joining. Who coupd join, when they'd join, who the bulls would give up or lose due to salary cap and why that team would beat golden state or Cleveland during jimmys prime years?

Well I don't have faith in GarPax doing this.

But I don't know who the potential FA are in 2018.

Fact is, if you are a winning team with Butler, players will want to join IMO.

Hopefully they become that winning team because right now they aren't not sure who they can land this summer TBH

[TheGOATRises007]

Can anyone put together a plan for how this team built around butler can win a championship?

Not vague talk about a star or two joining. Who coupd join, when they'd join, who the bulls would give up or lose due to salary cap and why that team would beat golden state or Cleveland during jimmys prime years?

Well I don't have faith in GarPax doing this.

But I don't know who the potential FA are in 2018.

Fact is, if you are a winning team with Butler, players will want to join IMO.

Hopefully they become that winning team because right now they aren't not sure who they can land this summer TBH

Not sure either. CP3 will re-extend. He's a pipe-dream.

[Ralphb07]

Well I don't have faith in GarPax doing this.

But I don't know who the potential FA are in 2018.

Fact is, if you are a winning team with Butler, players will want to join IMO.

Hopefully they become that winning team because right now they aren't not sure who they can land this summer TBH

Not sure either. CP3 will re-extend. He's a pipe-dream.

They have 33 mil to spend but that's losing MCW, Rondo, Taj and Niko. Obviously those guys aren't great but those spots need to be filled with that money. Not looking promising

[Ralphb07]

I just want the team to improve regardless so I'm open to any deal that does that. I don't care who's doing it

I'm sure there has to be some price that would make it worth it, and actually I think they are probably asking for that, but its unlikely to be met.

Yeah and I think it's no secret if it's met who will meet it "Thibs". My thing is I don't think RealGM fans would like the deal. Don't think they'd get anything more than Wiggins, Dunn and Minny's 2017 1st. I'd do such deal as most wouldn't.