2017-18 season and contracts

[tbhawksfan1]

Hawks will have 6 players under contract at the end of this season. How the he// are they going to fill out a "competitive" team next season?

If we keep and re-sign Sap, we won't have much cap left to fill the roster. We can sign guys first and then use Sap's bird rights to add him, but there are gonna be so many roster spots to fill...

What do you think the team will do for next season?

[ATL Boy]

We should be able to get 3 roster spots filled via the draft (our own 1st, BK 2nd, our own 2nd, maybe MIA's 2nd if it's 41-60 but not likely).

We also have some players stashed in Europe who might be coming over.


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[Jamaaliver]

Hawks will have 6 players under contract at the end of this season. How the he!! are they going to fill out a "competitive" team next season?

If we keep and re-sign Sap, we won't have much cap left to fill the roster. We can sign guys first and then use Sap's bird rights to add him, but there are gonna be so many roster spots to fill...

What do you think the team will do for next season?

This is the great dilemma. Clinging to this roster at any salary costs...limits greatly what we can surround them with. Millsap making $30+ million while avg 17 ppg will cripple us moving forward.

Maybe we attempt to shop Bazemore for a handful of underachieving vets already under contract...

Or cheap vets from Europe like Malcolm Delaney.

It's about to get interesting, fer sure. Cause we don't seem to have a definite vision in mind for the future.

We should be able to get 3 roster spots filled via the draft (our own 1st, BK 2nd, our own 2nd, maybe MIA's 2nd if it's 41-60 but not likely).

We also have some players stashed in Europe who might be coming over.

I gotta be honest. I don't particularly like either of those options. It took Muscala years to develop into a solid contributor. Tavares and Patterson were waived without making a huge impact at all.

Most of our first rounders didn't play much as rookies (this year's included).

[tbhawksfan1]

We wil have THREE NBA rotation players on the team: DH, Baze and Schro. The other players are Prince, Bembry and Delaney. If the GM lets us fall into this situation, we will be screwed.

Either Sap walks or puts us in cap trouble with his, DH, Baze and Schro's deals. Not much left to add any quality. And lots of needs remaing. This is not a good long-term senario.

They have to move Sap to get something or we will be in a terrible situation moving forward carrying 2 over 30 vets with big contracts.

Horford walking last year cost us bigtime. Add Horf to what we have; including the trade flexibility and we were finally looking better. Signing Baze and losing Horf are crushing blows to the team moving forward. Losing or re-signing Sap will only add to the problem.

Got to find a better solution. Playing out this season somewhat competitively and then everything falling apart next season, with big, bad contracts (only excluding Schro) is a losers bet and will put us just ahead of Brooklyn for worst situation.

[tbhawksfan1]

We should be able to get 3 roster spots filled via the draft (our own 1st, BK 2nd, our own 2nd, maybe MIA's 2nd if it's 41-60 but not likely).

We also have some players stashed in Europe who might be coming over.


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This won't get it done. Won't even move the needle. We're looking at a #20 pick playing at this rate. Of the 2 seconds, one will probably go to Europe and take years if ever, like our stashed guys that never have come or made it. Moose is the only one and he's only a decent rotation player.

Here's what we're looking at:

DH /
/
Prince /
Baze / Bembry
Shro / Delaney

Sign Sap, add one blah FA and we are already strapped. Our late picks are not going to add anything to next years top 8, unless we're rebuilding, but we can't with DH, Baze, Sap.....

How do you make it work?

[ATL Boy]

Guys. I'm not saying that 2nds and euro stashes will move any needle, I'm saying that it's an option to fill out the roster, which is what the opening post was addressing.


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[tbhawksfan1]

Guys. I'm not saying that 2nds and euro stashes will move any needle, I'm saying that it's an option to fill out the roster, which is what the opening post was addressing.


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Not really. The question is; if we try to remain competitive this year and not trade Sap, what is the plan moving forward? Sap will not be a good investment if we re-sign him and we'll be tied into a situation where our two highest paid players are nearly 35 year old bigs and a roster void.

Is making the playoffs with a non-contention team worth facing the situation it will put us in for YEARS moving forward?

I say no way, never, if you think different, I'd love to see how you see them putting the team together to remain competitive after this season

[MaceCase]

Explain exactly how you are filling out the roster by trading Sap though? He's one player, he can't return a dozen players back unless you are cutting/trading others along with him and if it's picks, well aren't you stating that those wont matter for years? The cap space Sap frees up isn't exactly netting you more than a single other impact free agent either so your premise is that the team is doomed either way? Kind of melodramatic, no?

[ATL Boy]

Guys. I'm not saying that 2nds and euro stashes will move any needle, I'm saying that it's an option to fill out the roster, which is what the opening post was addressing.


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Not really. The question is; if we try to remain competitive this year and not trade Sap, what is the plan moving forward? Sap will not be a good investment if we re-sign him and we'll be tied into a situation where our two highest paid players are nearly 35 year old bigs and a roster void.

Is making the playoffs with a non-contention team worth facing the situation it will put us in for YEARS moving forward?

I say no way, never, if you think different, I'd love to see how you see them putting the team together to remain competitive after this season

So what is your plan? Trade Millsap for a package revolving around Terrance Ross and a late draft pick (we won't get much better in this market), just outright don't re-sign Millsap and gamble on a FA signing (who won't be as good as Millsap), or outright tank (no happening with new ownership not wanting it happen).

The truth is that at this point in time there is no clear cut great solution for this team. I think they'll re-sign Millsap and go from there trying to field a solid playoff team and then looking at FA when he and Dwight expire.


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[tbhawksfan1]

Explain exactly how you are filling out the roster by trading Sap though? He's one player, he can't return a dozen players back unless you are cutting/trading others along with him and if it's picks, well aren't you stating that those wont matter for years? The cap space Sap frees up isn't exactly netting you more than a single other impact free agent either so your premise is that the team is doomed either way? Kind of melodramatic, no?

That's the problem. We are'nt going to be able to stay competitive with the way we're set up. I see us in steady decline as long as we keep using the stay competitive strategy. I think that if we don't at least do a major re-tool, we'll slide backwards over the next season's and be in a terrible situation not just because we are losing ground, but because we will have no good choices.

[tbhawksfan1]

Guys. I'm not saying that 2nds and euro stashes will move any needle, I'm saying that it's an option to fill out the roster, which is what the opening post was addressing.


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Not really. The question is; if we try to remain competitive this year and not trade Sap, what is the plan moving forward? Sap will not be a good investment if we re-sign him and we'll be tied into a situation where our two highest paid players are nearly 35 year old bigs and a roster void.

Is making the playoffs with a non-contention team worth facing the situation it will put us in for YEARS moving forward?

I say no way, never, if you think different, I'd love to see how you see them putting the team together to remain competitive after this season

So what is your plan? Trade Millsap for a package revolving around Terrance Ross and a late draft pick (we won't get much better in this market), just outright don't re-sign Millsap and gamble on a FA signing (who won't be as good as Millsap), or outright tank (no happening with new ownership not wanting it happen).

The truth is that at this point in time there is no clear cut great solution for this team. I think they'll re-sign Millsap and go from there trying to field a solid playoff team and then looking at FA when he and Dwight expire.


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Yes, I trade Sap, try to trade Thabo and TH Jr and try to rebuild this team while we still have some assets. As of right now, Schroder is the only thing we have going for us if you look at the big picture.. i.e. team building is not a one year vision unless you think you can win a chip

[Jamaaliver]

Yes, I trade Sap, try to trade Thabo and TH Jr and try to rebuild this team while we still have some assets. As of right now, Schroder is the only thing we have going for us if you look at the big picture.. i.e. team building is not a one year vision unless you think you can win a chip

Wow. I may not agree with all of it. But I definitely respect a man with vision.

team building is not a one year vision unless you think you can win a chip...

This should be placed on a placard outside Budenholzer, Ressler and Wilcox's offices. Unless you sign LeBron in Free Agency...it takes years to create an actual contender with a half dozen savvy/lucky moves along the way.

[MaceCase]

Explain exactly how you are filling out the roster by trading Sap though? He's one player, he can't return a dozen players back unless you are cutting/trading others along with him and if it's picks, well aren't you stating that those wont matter for years? The cap space Sap frees up isn't exactly netting you more than a single other impact free agent either so your premise is that the team is doomed either way? Kind of melodramatic, no?

That's the problem. We are'nt going to be able to stay competitive with the way we're set up. I see us in steady decline as long as we keep using the stay competitive strategy. I think that if we don't at least do a major re-tool, we'll slide backwards over the next season's and be in a terrible situation not just because we are losing ground, but because we will have no good choices.

So in this apocalyptic world in which you've created there's no such thing as internal development? You mentioned the Hawks being in better shape had they retained Horford but that flies in the face of the dilemma you are presenting giving that, coupled with the hyperbole of stating investing large money into near 35 year olds puts the team at right back at square one for you.

So what is this exactly? Are you just complaining to complain? If you just want to omit the Hawks current standing, dismiss development of the youth, tack on 3 years of aging to all of its vets and then remove the existence of free agency, the draft, and trade, the three cornerstones of the NBA, then sure. I guess I have to bite on this apocalyptic take if those are the narrow parameters.

[tbhawksfan1]

Explain exactly how you are filling out the roster by trading Sap though? He's one player, he can't return a dozen players back unless you are cutting/trading others along with him and if it's picks, well aren't you stating that those wont matter for years? The cap space Sap frees up isn't exactly netting you more than a single other impact free agent either so your premise is that the team is doomed either way? Kind of melodramatic, no?

That's the problem. We are'nt going to be able to stay competitive with the way we're set up. I see us in steady decline as long as we keep using the stay competitive strategy. I think that if we don't at least do a major re-tool, we'll slide backwards over the next season's and be in a terrible situation not just because we are losing ground, but because we will have no good choices.

So in this apocalyptic world in which you've created there's no such thing as internal development? You mentioned the Hawks being in better shape had they retained Horford but that flies in the face of the dilemma you are presenting giving that, coupled with the hyperbole of stating investing large money into near 35 year olds puts the team at right back at square one for you.

So what is this exactly? Are you just complaining to complain? If you just want to omit the Hawks current standing, dismiss development of the youth, tack on 3 years of aging to all of its vets and then remove the existence of free agency, the draft, and trade, the three cornerstones of the NBA, then sure. I guess I have to bite on this apocalyptic take if those are the narrow parameters.

"Are you just complaining to complain?" No

" If you just want to omit the Hawks current standing, dismiss development of the youth, tack on 3 years of aging to all of its vets and then remove the existence of free agency, the draft, and trade, the three cornerstones of the NBA, then sure."
Happy with our current standing, but not at the cost. Our youth is 2 mid to late 2016 picks and what makes you think they'll develop better than the 15 or 20 guys picked ahead of them? I don't know what the three cornerstones of the NBA are...


I just have the capacity to be a longtime Hawks fan, yet have the ability to see things objectively. I also want the Hawks to be THE BEST. I don't care if it takes a 10 year plan. Build a team that gets better and will eventually have a championship ceiling.

[ATL Boy]

Not really. The question is; if we try to remain competitive this year and not trade Sap, what is the plan moving forward? Sap will not be a good investment if we re-sign him and we'll be tied into a situation where our two highest paid players are nearly 35 year old bigs and a roster void.

Is making the playoffs with a non-contention team worth facing the situation it will put us in for YEARS moving forward?

I say no way, never, if you think different, I'd love to see how you see them putting the team together to remain competitive after this season

So what is your plan? Trade Millsap for a package revolving around Terrance Ross and a late draft pick (we won't get much better in this market), just outright don't re-sign Millsap and gamble on a FA signing (who won't be as good as Millsap), or outright tank (no happening with new ownership not wanting it happen).

The truth is that at this point in time there is no clear cut great solution for this team. I think they'll re-sign Millsap and go from there trying to field a solid playoff team and then looking at FA when he and Dwight expire.


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Yes, I trade Sap, try to trade Thabo and TH Jr and try to rebuild this team while we still have some assets. As of right now, Schroder is the only thing we have going for us if you look at the big picture.. i.e. team building is not a one year vision unless you think you can win a chip

What are you getting for these players that'll make the team better than it is right now? Late firsts/mediocre role players won't put the Hawks any closer to title contention.

I mean we could always rip up the foundation and bottom up, but 90% of teams that tank end up no better than the Hawks are right now. The 76ers are experiencing their what? 6th year of misery? The Magic look poised to enter the treadmill, after those years of being terrible the Raptors aren't legit title contenders.

The Wolves are the team that seems like they'll compete after a tank, but only because they were fortunate that a generational talent fell in their lap. Heck, the Pelicans also got one of those talents and they can't even make the playoffs with Davis ready to enter his prime.

The bed has been made with this team. If you want a title you won't get it any time soon. We can make all the trades we want.


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[MaceCase]

That's the problem. We are'nt going to be able to stay competitive with the way we're set up. I see us in steady decline as long as we keep using the stay competitive strategy. I think that if we don't at least do a major re-tool, we'll slide backwards over the next season's and be in a terrible situation not just because we are losing ground, but because we will have no good choices.

So in this apocalyptic world in which you've created there's no such thing as internal development? You mentioned the Hawks being in better shape had they retained Horford but that flies in the face of the dilemma you are presenting giving that, coupled with the hyperbole of stating investing large money into near 35 year olds puts the team at right back at square one for you.

So what is this exactly? Are you just complaining to complain? If you just want to omit the Hawks current standing, dismiss development of the youth, tack on 3 years of aging to all of its vets and then remove the existence of free agency, the draft, and trade, the three cornerstones of the NBA, then sure. I guess I have to bite on this apocalyptic take if those are the narrow parameters.

"Are you just complaining to complain?" No

" If you just want to omit the Hawks current standing, dismiss development of the youth, tack on 3 years of aging to all of its vets and then remove the existence of free agency, the draft, and trade, the three cornerstones of the NBA, then sure."
Happy with our current standing, but not at the cost. Our youth is 2 mid to late 2016 picks and what makes you think they'll develop better than the 15 or 20 guys picked ahead of them? I don't know what the three cornerstones of the NBA are...


I just have the capacity to be a longtime Hawks fan, yet have the ability to see things objectively. I also want the Hawks to be THE BEST. I don't care if it takes a 10 year plan. Build a team that gets better and will eventually have a championship ceiling.

If you don't care if it takes 10 years why exactly are you so concerned about only next season then? This is my concern with your posts, you're all over the place. You speak of objectivity yet don't realize your issues with the team can be applied to nearly every other team in the league. This is not a unique situation to the Hawks yet all I'm seeing is the same old hyperbole I read every year where every team will get better but only the Hawks will get worse. I guess in a 10 year span that just has to be right once, right?

[tbhawksfan1]

Right, you got it

[jayu70]

If Sap stays, find a taker for Baze that frees up $16 mil, , use whatever capspace we have, use the MLE exception which will be $8 mil or whatever other exceptions to sign a FAs.
If Sap leaves, sign another free agent with the money.
If Sap leaves trade for a player using the capsapce vacated by Millsap. Example: let's say SAS decides Aldridge isn't working or Detroit is already in cap hell and looking to resign KCP - we get Tobias Harris or Favors from Utah -they are prioritizing resigning Haywood and Hill (what if he wants to come home to Atlanta)

[D21]

team building is not a one year vision unless you think you can win a chip...

This should be placed on a placard outside Budenholzer, Ressler and Wilcox's offices. Unless you sign LeBron in Free Agency...it takes years to create an actual contender with a half dozen savvy/lucky moves along the way.

That's right, completely right.
The biggest problem is that any solutions is not the one that can assure you to compete with CLE, and it's only because they use a different system that it's too late to be a possibility here : they not letting one player walk for nothing, even if they need to overpay, or get in a trade a player that is overpaid, but by getting more salaries than they send, it allow them to increase their total salary amount.
If they send someone for free, they get a TPE, and use it. Each year they increase their total salary.
But they need to be full of money to do it and few team have enough to do it.

The one year we could have build a team able to compete with them was a the start of the 2014-15 season, if we had been able to get Gasol and/or Deng.
It would have look like a problem to keep everybody the following year, but by getting not swept, or even going to Finals, it would have been easier to keep everybody or convince them to not ask the Max.

By re-signing F.A., we would have been over the cap, and the goal would have been to stay over the cap and trading, trading, trading, re-signing, re-signing... that's what CLE do.

It's still possible to make a year using cap room, but you should never use it several consecutive years. It should be one time, at the right moment, then you re-sign, trade,...

No, I refuse to say that every last seasons were bad decisions only, because we don't even know the real level of the last three teams.
2014-15 : it could be better by adding Gasol/Deng, but it could also be better by just not have all the injuries in playoffs.
If we were able to add one or these guys, it could have been the beginning of a great era.
2015-16 : we had a real C and could try it with Horford and Millsap for the first time, and it would have help Vs CLE, but he was injured.
2016-17 : a better C than Splitter, but Splitter is still here not playing. Change of system so time needed to see the real potential.
IMO, if we don't want to operate with cap room this summer, we should trade Splitter and get contract back.

Two options : rebuilding, or trying now but go for it as much as you can.
If Bud wants to try to really compete and to win this year, and the following, then he has to trade Splitter and get salaries coming back. If it's keeping the team as it is now, it's a half way between really trying and rebuilding, and doesn't improve anything.

If they decide to win now, then they should make a trade like (it's only an example because it may be the best fit) :
Splitter/Scott/Muscala (all expiring) for Monroe.

It may sound stupid at first, but I would prefer making this trade and having him as a piece you can trade this summer, than nothing, even if he's not the best fit. And who knows ? He's a good rebounder, makes assists, his an offensive threat and not the bad defender some people say.
We would have a three man rotation on C-PF, the problem is that he's a lot better at C than PF while a guy playing both positions would be the best fit.

If not that kind of move, try to get a wing but do something.

[Jamaaliver]

team building is not a one year vision unless you think you can win a chip...

This should be placed on a placard outside Budenholzer, Ressler and Wilcox's offices. Unless you sign LeBron in Free Agency...it takes years to create an actual contender with a half dozen savvy/lucky moves along the way.

That's right, completely right...

Two options : rebuilding, or trying now but go for it as much as you can.

Well thought out post. And a very valid line of thinking. With the way we've struggled to attract talent in Free Agency and whiffed often in the draft, I too wish we'd make a more concerted effort to gain valuable pieces in trade.

We've misused a lot of assets over the years...