Mavericks 2017 Draft #9

[bobsquad]

The only reason why I could see Dallas dealing the pick is to acquire a Cousins or a Butler... and the only reason to do those trades is to help Dirk retire gracefully into the night with a 50+ win season... this kind of deal would be typical because Donnie and Mark don't have a vision for the future and they haven't for a very long time

I don't think it's about Dirk anymore. It's about those who are there like Carlisle/Nelson/Carlisle and seem to just want to "win". They value the playoffs so much... you'd think this is the NFL and being in the playoffs is an accomplishment and you have a shot at winning. They know nothing else other than "winning"... so they just stick with it desperately.

I've held out hope through our pursuits of D-Will, Dwight, Carmelo, DeAndre, and even Mike Conley. We're not going to win another ring with Dirk. Donnie, Cuban, and (especially) Carlisle have to realize this by now.

[Jinra]

I've held out hope through our pursuits of D-Will, Dwight, Carmelo, DeAndre, and even Mike Conley. We're not going to win another ring with Dirk. Donnie, Cuban, and (especially) Carlisle have to realize this by now.

I try not to make statements like this anymore. The way I see it, 2 legit moves would put us right back in real contention. With those 2 moves, address either the 1, 2 and\or 5 position. A couple of examples (I don't think are far-fetched):

Michael Carter Williams
Jimmy Butler
Dorian Finney Smith
Harrison Barnes
Andrew Bogut

Jeff Teague
Wesley Matthews
Dorian Finney Smith
Harrison Barnes
DeMarcus Cousins

All to say that I don't think the Mavericks front office would be wrong to consider trading their pick, as long as it is valued for more than cash and salary dumps.

[The Sparest]

Do you know much about Ntilinka? Everything I read it great. Great floor vision and passing, scorer, and 7 ft wingspan.

I haven't been able to see a ton of footage of his play, but what I have seen is very intriguing. He has great measurables, good vision and passing ability, good BBIQ, a solid shooting stroke, and good intensity on D. He looks like a longer term project, but if the Mavs end up outside the top 3, I wouldn't mind seeing them end up with Ntilinka.

[bobsquad]

I try not to make statements like this anymore. The way I see it, 2 legit moves would put us right back in real contention. With those 2 moves, address either the 1, 2 and\or 5 position. A couple of examples (I don't think are far-fetched):

Michael Carter Williams
Jimmy Butler
Dorian Finney Smith
Harrison Barnes
Andrew Bogut

Jeff Teague
Wesley Matthews
Dorian Finney Smith
Harrison Barnes
DeMarcus Cousins

All to say that I don't think the Mavericks front office would be wrong to consider trading their pick, as long as it is valued for more than cash and salary dumps.

I admit that I'm a pessimist when it comes to this topic, but here's the way I see it: those aren't far fetched at all. Just like how pursuing Dwight, DeAndre, et al weren't far fetched either, and I really don't think they were. But optimism, especially about those scenarios, isn't a viable plan anymore when we're sitting at 11-27 and the brightest spots on our roster are Harrison Barnes, Dwight Powell, and an undrafted rookie.

Do you know much about Ntilinka? Everything I read it great. Great floor vision and passing, scorer, and 7 ft wingspan.

I haven't been able to see a ton of footage of his play, but what I have seen is very intriguing. He has great measurables, good vision and passing ability, good BBIQ, a solid shooting stroke, and good intensity on D. He looks like a longer term project, but if the Mavs end up outside the top 3, I wouldn't mind seeing them end up with Ntilinka.

I expect that we won't hear if Ntilikina is the "real deal" until pre-draft workouts, like I remember hearing about Porzingis a few years ago after he faced some serious skepticism. If he seems to live up to the hype, I wouldn't be surprised if he goes in the top 3.

Also I feel like he's the type of player Mark Cuban fetishizes, a guy who could make the Mavs FO look smart if he pans out. He's "untouchable" Roddy Beaubois but bigger, more athletic, more skilled, and with a much higher ceiling. By contrast, Fultz could be the next Westbrook or Harden, but Cuban for some reason piles criticism specifically on those two guys.

[Dirk]

I try not to make statements like this anymore. The way I see it, 2 legit moves would put us right back in real contention. With those 2 moves, address either the 1, 2 and\or 5 position. A couple of examples (I don't think are far-fetched):

Michael Carter Williams
Jimmy Butler
Dorian Finney Smith
Harrison Barnes
Andrew Bogut

Jeff Teague
Wesley Matthews
Dorian Finney Smith
Harrison Barnes
DeMarcus Cousins

All to say that I don't think the Mavericks front office would be wrong to consider trading their pick, as long as it is valued for more than cash and salary dumps.

I admit that I'm a pessimist when it comes to this topic, but here's the way I see it: those aren't far fetched at all. Just like how pursuing Dwight, DeAndre, et al weren't far fetched either, and I really don't think they were. But optimism, especially about those scenarios, isn't a viable plan anymore when we're sitting at 11-27 and the brightest spots on our roster are Harrison Barnes, Dwight Powell, and an undrafted rookie.

I don't think it's possible to get Butler.

Cousins is crazy, so who knows... he may like Dallas/Cuban or something and want to play here, so that one may be more feasible. In any case the expectation is that the Kings will throw over 200 million at him for a new contract.

The Mavs have their 2017 pick and then you'd have to add multiple picks into the future... I don't know if it'd be a wise situation to set yourself up for a Billy King situation, trading away picks for 2019, 2021, 2023.

[Suka Bongcic]

I've held out hope through our pursuits of D-Will, Dwight, Carmelo, DeAndre, and even Mike Conley. We're not going to win another ring with Dirk. Donnie, Cuban, and (especially) Carlisle have to realize this by now.

I try not to make statements like this anymore. The way I see it, 2 legit moves would put us right back in real contention. With those 2 moves, address either the 1, 2 and\or 5 position. A couple of examples (I don't think are far-fetched):

Michael Carter Williams
Jimmy Butler
Dorian Finney Smith
Harrison Barnes
Andrew Bogut

Jeff Teague
Wesley Matthews
Dorian Finney Smith
Harrison Barnes
DeMarcus Cousins

All to say that I don't think the Mavericks front office would be wrong to consider trading their pick, as long as it is valued for more than cash and salary dumps.

Michael carter Williams just isn't a very good player at this stage. Watched a few Bulls games the last week and he does nothing for me. Maybe it's the system, idk, but I would want no part of him. Its gonna cost too much to get butler. Not a fan of the 1st scenario.

2nd scenario is even worse IMO. I'd want no part of cousins. His stats say one thing and his history says the complete opposite. Maybe he grows up in the next year or so, but I think it's beyond growing up. I believe the guy just has issues. While I've always been a fan of Teague, I don't think he's good enough to throw 20mill a year at to help a team make the next step.

We need to focus on landing a potential superstar PG IMO. It's a PGs league and there are s few in this draft that have that potential. Boston will probably be picking top 3. If we don't land in the top 3-4 we should try and swing something in order to secure their pick. It shouldn't be tooooo costly considering we'll only be trading up a couple spots. Boston has no need for a PG and it's looking like the top 3 players off the board might be Fultz, Smith and Ball. Giles is still making his way back from multiple knee surgeries, but he's looked like a 2nd rd pick so far. I know that won't be the case when he's healthy, but he just doesn't look very good right now. Get the PG in a PG heavy draft and build from there.

[ModIn]

Mavs are a very old and bad team. That is a terrible combination.
I laugh at anyone who says we are two moves away.

Yeah. If those moves have us keeping Barnes, Dirk and our young depth while landing us LeBron and Curry. Then we might be two moves away...


You ideally want to be young and good like the Warriors. Or atleast old and good like the Mavs in 2011. If you have to be bad, you atleast want to have a very young roster (like Minny or Philly) with a lot of room for improvement in the near future.

The last thing you want to be is the Mavs right now.

Trading that pick for anyone that is not a complete homerun would be ridiculous.

Right now the Mavs have one piece in Barnes that you can build around. The rest is simply not good.

Time to face the facts and rebuild. Cuban has screwed around with Dirks prime years so much (and failed mostly) that I find it ridiculous to say we "owe" Dirk anything right now.

If anything Cuban owed him to not waste so many of his prime years on the ridiculous plan powder or on so many management failures he oversaw (horrible drafting, letting Nash go, Rondo, Odom, etc.).

Now that Dirk looks worse than ever (you can not win with him playing on defense anymore), it is time to do what is best for this franchise.

And right now that is losing and really improving your scouting because the Mavs have to nail that pick if they ever want to surround Barnes with a winning team.

With the new CBA the draft will be king more than ever. Plan Powder is completely dead (I am not sure it was ever alive).

So focus on doing the right thing this time.
Trading the pick would be laughably bad.

[Jinra]

I respect your opinion, but I will say it again... the Dallas Mavericks are at least 2 moves away from contending for getting to the Finals. And, I don't mean adding Lebron James and Stephen Curry either.

That statement is to say pick any combination of second tier and below to add to this team to get them back into contention. I don't see that as a fantasy statement.

Maybe you just don't like my examples? That's cool. Let me offer these options, which are a bit more attainable than the other 2. Goran Dragic and Eric Bledsoe are out there being shopped. If you added Dragic or Bledsoe to this core tomorrow, they make the prayoffs. At that point, even if the Mavericks simply resigned Bogut, they would be viewed as a possible contender next year. Not a favorite, but maybe a 4th or 5th.

In this league, all it takes is one player to ignite another level of chemistry and propel a team to the next tier or 2.

If you don't see that, then I laugh at you.

[Jinra]

I admit that I'm a pessimist when it comes to this topic...

Man, there is nothing wrong with applying your logic based off the Mavericks recent history in the transactions department. But I will offer that we have still made some splashes that we often overlook. Harrison Barnes is one of those splashes. So no matter how unlikely, there are always deals to be made and players to be added.

Michael carter Williams just isn't a very good player at this stage. Watched a few Bulls games the last week and he does nothing for me. Maybe it's the system, idk, but I would want no part of him. Its gonna cost too much to get butler. Not a fan of the 1st scenario.

2nd scenario is even worse IMO. I'd want no part of cousins. His stats say one thing and his history says the complete opposite. Maybe he grows up in the next year or so, but I think it's beyond growing up. I believe the guy just has issues. While I've always been a fan of Teague, I don't think he's good enough to throw 20mill a year at to help a team make the next step.

I guess first is that Carter-Williams is completely lost in the Chicago rotation. He gets playing time but all he does is dump the ball to Butler & Wade, like everyone else. He is totally being underutilized. I would love to set him free in Dallas and see him return to his rookie year form. That was no fluke.

But more to the point, I am referring to adding talent verses the star power of the individual players. Star power would be great, but Dallas just needs talent at this point. Adding Teague and Cousins would put Dallas into a different tier as a team. Would they be championship favorites? Maybe not. But they would be a solid playoff team contending each year.

[Dirk]

I admit that I'm a pessimist when it comes to this topic...

Man, there is nothing wrong with applying your logic based off the Mavericks recent history in the transactions department. But I will offer that we have still made some splashes that we often overlook. Harrison Barnes is one of those splashes. So no matter how unlikely, there are always deals to be made and players to be added.

Michael carter Williams just isn't a very good player at this stage. Watched a few Bulls games the last week and he does nothing for me. Maybe it's the system, idk, but I would want no part of him. Its gonna cost too much to get butler. Not a fan of the 1st scenario.

2nd scenario is even worse IMO. I'd want no part of cousins. His stats say one thing and his history says the complete opposite. Maybe he grows up in the next year or so, but I think it's beyond growing up. I believe the guy just has issues. While I've always been a fan of Teague, I don't think he's good enough to throw 20mill a year at to help a team make the next step.

I guess first is that Carter-Williams is completely lost in the Chicago rotation. He gets playing time but all he does is dump the ball to Butler & Wade, like everyone else. He is totally being underutilized. I would love to set him free in Dallas and see him return to his rookie year form. That was no fluke.

But more to the point, I am referring to adding talent verses the star power of the individual players. Star power would be great, but Dallas just needs talent at this point. Adding Teague and Cousins would put Dallas into a different tier as a team. Would they be championship favorites? Maybe not. But they would be a solid playoff team contending each year.

After the Rondo experience, why would you want a PG that can't shoot? But he may be available on the cheap... he is not a starter though. His future at best is probably as a sixth man type.

How do you see the Mavs ever getting Butler or Cousins? There are several teams with better assets to trade for those players.

[Suka Bongcic]

I admit that I'm a pessimist when it comes to this topic...

Man, there is nothing wrong with applying your logic based off the Mavericks recent history in the transactions department. But I will offer that we have still made some splashes that we often overlook. Harrison Barnes is one of those splashes. So no matter how unlikely, there are always deals to be made and players to be added.

Michael carter Williams just isn't a very good player at this stage. Watched a few Bulls games the last week and he does nothing for me. Maybe it's the system, idk, but I would want no part of him. Its gonna cost too much to get butler. Not a fan of the 1st scenario.

2nd scenario is even worse IMO. I'd want no part of cousins. His stats say one thing and his history says the complete opposite. Maybe he grows up in the next year or so, but I think it's beyond growing up. I believe the guy just has issues. While I've always been a fan of Teague, I don't think he's good enough to throw 20mill a year at to help a team make the next step.

I guess first is that Carter-Williams is completely lost in the Chicago rotation. He gets playing time but all he does is dump the ball to Butler & Wade, like everyone else. He is totally being underutilized. I would love to set him free in Dallas and see him return to his rookie year form. That was no fluke.

But more to the point, I am referring to adding talent verses the star power of the individual players. Star power would be great, but Dallas just needs talent at this point. Adding Teague and Cousins would put Dallas into a different tier as a team. Would they be championship favorites? Maybe not. But they would be a solid playoff team contending each year.

After the Rondo experience, why would you want a PG that can't shoot? But he may be available on the cheap... he is not a starter though. His future at best is probably as a sixth man type.

How do you see the Mavs ever getting Butler or Cousins? There are several teams with better assets to trade for those players.

Agree completely regarding MCW. Point guards that can't shoot are near worthless imo. Defenses just leave him open and it's like playing with an extra defender. He's just an ok facilitator. His only worth imo is as if a defender and a pg that can post up smaller defenders. I wouldn't want him unless it was for 3 mill or under as a 6th man.

Regarding the 2nd point, the only way we get cousins is if he refuses to sign an extension with the kings. If they offer him 200 mill, I doubt he refuses. If he refuses then sign him as a FA if Dallas is a destination for him. No chance in getting butler unless we part with Barnes and 1st rd picks. It's a possibility but I doubt that happens.

We have to build with the draft and lower tier FA that fit the system

[Jinra]

So all I said was that it is a possibility to get those players, and until something else happens to eliminate that as a possibility... then it is still a possibility. We have seen trades break down and dumb trades and everything else. The point is, you put your best package together and see where it goes. Carmelo went to the Knicks for a bag of chips. (Wilson Chandler, Raymond Felton, Danilo Gallinari, Timofey Mozgov and a 2014 first-round draft pick) Orlando ultimately landed Arron Afflalo, Al Harrington, Moe Harkless and Nikola Vucevic for Howard, Duhon, Clark and Richardson in a 3-team trade.

Just saying...

If you don't like Carter-Williams, no problem, substitute for someone else who would reasonably fit the exchange. I am not in love with the kid, but I think he could thrive and grow on this team under Carlisle. He is young with lots of potential and room to grow.... even a jumper (aka J-Kidd).

[Zen_Paradox]

Since this conversation has gravitated mildly towards free agency 'what-ifs', I don't think it would be a bad idea to throw a huge offer at Nerlens Noel, or perhaps Serge Ibaka.

Cousins is signing a $207m contract to stay in Sac, so trading for him isn't even plausible at this point. Butler isn't really a possibility either. Mainly because I don't really believe he's being shopped.

This brings us back to using our pick to nab Dennis Smith Jr.

Smith Jr
Matthews
Barnes
Dirk
Ibaka/Noel

Seems like a fairly realistic starting 5 next year IMO. I'd be okay with it, even if it means chasing an 8 seed...again.





Sent from my Z963VL using RealGM mobile app

[Dirk]

Since this conversation has gravitated mildly towards free agency 'what-ifs', I don't think it would be a bad idea to throw a huge offer at Nerlens Noel, or perhaps Serge Ibaka.

Cousins is signing a $207m contract to stay in Sac, so trading for him isn't even plausible at this point. Butler isn't really a possibility either. Mainly because I don't really believe he's being shopped.

This brings us back to using our pick to nab Dennis Smith Jr.

Smith Jr
Matthews
Barnes
Dirk
Ibaka/Noel

Take note that Ibaka doesn't play C that much. So you'd essentially be playing another PF, when you know that Barnes does most damage as a small ball 4.

Noel fits better.

Everyone will say "overpay", but it's the nature of the NBA, you have to overpay to get players in free agency. Unless you sit idle and accept another 'losing season', keeping more flexibility for the future. That doesn't seem to be what the Mavs will ever do though.

[Zen_Paradox]

Take note that Ibaka doesn't play C that much. So you'd essentially be playing another PF, when you know that Barnes does most damage as a small ball 4.

Noel fits better.

Everyone will say "overpay", but it's the nature of the NBA, you have to overpay to get players in free agency. Unless you sit idle and accept another 'losing season', keeping more flexibility for the future. That doesn't seem to be what the Mavs will ever do though.

I agree that the term overpay is thrown around way too easily now.

I know Ibaka is a 4, but the FA C pool isn't exactly overflowing with talent this year..and we need a stopgap, at the very least. Bringing Bogut back is possible, but I'm betting he goes to a contender.

Personally, I'd rather take a flyer on Noel, but I imagine a few other teams are thinking the same thing at this point too...hence the reason Philly hasn't traded him.

Sent from my Z963VL using RealGM mobile app

[Dirk]

I agree that the term overpay is thrown around way too easily now.

I know Ibaka is a 4, but the FA C pool isn't exactly overflowing with talent this year..and we need a stopgap, at the very least. Bringing Bogut back is possible, but I'm betting he goes to a contender.

Personally, I'd rather take a flyer on Noel, but I imagine a few other teams are thinking the same thing at this point too...hence the reason Philly hasn't traded him.

Sent from my Z963VL using RealGM mobile app

You're absolutely right that the FA C pool is very poor, but Ibaka hasn't proven to be a solution there, so you'd be overpaying for someone with question marks already (age, injury history, decline) and whose best position is the same as Barnes.

Noel, you can understand that one better if they do their homework and are confident that he's ok physically and with the off the field stuff.

[Zen_Paradox]

Also, I think saying Barnes best position is at the 4 is a bit subjective to the type of team we have at the moment. His rebound rate is at 9%...not so great for a PF.

He works, really well actually, as a small ball four, but trying to build a team based off him playing out of position is a terrible idea, IMO.

[Dirk]

Also, I think saying Barnes best position is at the 4 is a bit subjective to the type of team we have at the moment. His rebound rate is at 9%...not so great for a PF.

He works, really well actually, as a small ball four, but trying to build a team based off him playing out of position is a terrible idea, IMO.

Good points. But would you consider Ibaka a good rebounder? Even if you don't make Barnes a full time PF (and I also think that's not a great idea), you have to consider the fact that he'll be playing that a significant amount of time.

[Zen_Paradox]

Also, I think saying Barnes best position is at the 4 is a bit subjective to the type of team we have at the moment. His rebound rate is at 9%...not so great for a PF.

He works, really well actually, as a small ball four, but trying to build a team based off him playing out of position is a terrible idea, IMO.

Good points. But would you consider Ibaka a good rebounder? Even if you don't make Barnes a full time PF (and I also think that's not a great idea), you have to consider the fact that he'll be playing that a significant amount of time.

No, I wouldn't at all really, but Ibaka would far and away be the best defender on the team, even if his defensive stats have declined.

I just don't see many plausible options at C, unfortunately.

[Dirk]

Also, I think saying Barnes best position is at the 4 is a bit subjective to the type of team we have at the moment. His rebound rate is at 9%...not so great for a PF.

He works, really well actually, as a small ball four, but trying to build a team based off him playing out of position is a terrible idea, IMO.

Good points. But would you consider Ibaka a good rebounder? Even if you don't make Barnes a full time PF (and I also think that's not a great idea), you have to consider the fact that he'll be playing that a significant amount of time.

No, I wouldn't at all really, but Ibaka would far and away be the best defender on the team, even if his defensive stats have declined.

I just don't see many plausible options at C, unfortunately.

One thing to take into account, the Mavs only have a max slot if they don't bring Dirk back at $25M.

The free agents available, when we really look, are not that good. You have the elite who are not coming. You have the good rfas who are very very unlikely to come (teams will match). So should we just pay "someone" because he is the best of the rest?

Ibaka with his red flags... I think I would just pass and wouldn't mind another 'losing season'. I would prefer that than to overpay someone like Ibaka who can make 30 million a year in salary.

I'm looking forward to the trade deadline so we can have a clearer picture about the future and direction.