Some perspective on the team right now

[Skin]

Sometimes it's hard to admit to the truth on the wall when wishful thinking keeps getting in the way. Expectations for the Magic were suppose to be met this season to begin our playoff race. Right now, it's not the case. We're eight games under five hundred. We have a new coach who's three's month's into this team. We had three previous coaches who coached this team within the last four years (High turnovers in coaches leads to inconsistency). Our team is made up of youngsters who are barely 23yrs of age yet with exceptions to our veterans(we know who they are). We have players on this team who are still in development and certain veteran players who continue to piss off fans with porous efforts. Miscommunication between our GM Hennigan and COO Martins may have effected the direction of the team in terms of patience and better judgement. In some ways, I feel like I'm describing the Sacramento Kings when I know our issues aren't twice as worse off as the Kings.


Some posters inside and outside alike suggest that the Magic need to rebuild all over again. The hell with that logic. My own patience can only go so far in terms of staying on the rebuilding path. I do know that the issues of inconsistencies, growing pains, different coaches almost every year, chemistry, lack of leadership and accountability has played a role in the Magic's rebuilding process. The Magic have themselves to blame for this debacle. They owe us the fans an apology for selling us on false promises and owe the players for setting up too high expectations for a playoff run when it's evident we're not ready to handle the pressure and responsibility that goes along with it.

For me, playoffs or no playoffs.... it's the same if you don't have a true contender. I wouldn't be happy with our season if we made it to the playoffs and got bounced in the first round. I want something more believable. I think this team we have is getting closer, and with a solid draft pick combined with the continued development of Payton/Gordon and smart usage of our cap next summer, could really result in a quick turn around. I don't see a completely flawed team, nor do I see the need to rebuild and gut this team again.

[BadMofoPimp]

If people truly believe that you may as well tank if you don't have a contender, then 25-26 teams may as well just close up shop and liquidate. Because, there is no such thing as that philosophy. You have to build and develop teams, not win them in the lottery.

[Skin]

I still don't get the "impatient fans" statement being this team has arguably been the 2nd worst team in the entire NBA over the last 5 years. What? Should we wait until 10 years of being a bottom feeder to pass before we start criticizing management?

You're an anti-tanker right BMP?

I am the Anti-(tank for 5 years kinda guy). A year or two, I understand, but do you really think fans are gonna sit around for 5-10 years waiting for a GM to win a superstar in the draft while intentionally putting a crappy product on the floor?

Regardless how much money a Businessman thinks they will make off winning one superstar, the money they lose for 5-10 freaking years ain't worth it. This is just a poor excuse of a GM praying to the basketball gods year after year he gets lucky in the Lottery.

This is the pattern I see you talking about:

Losing --> Impatient fans --> Threats to stop following the team --> Ownership losing money --> Pressure on GM to start winning --> HC hot seat --> Meaningless wins --> Very difficult rebuild unless you get lucky in the lottery --> More losing. Rinse and repeat.

Let's be real. You were the Anti-tank guy in years 1 and 2 as well. You were so anti-tank that you were disgusted with "Joke" Vaughn and wanted him gone. Going into year 3 we didn't hear the end of it. ...and many a Magic fan here were with you. The idea of wanting to win every game possible during a rebuild AND being able to draft an elite prospect has far too thin odds of happening. It takes extreme lottery luck... and we just haven't had that.

I thought we properly executed the tank in year 1, landing Dipo #2 overall. But the impatience of the fans to properly accept a tank have hurt us since. One pick away from Wiggins/Parker/Embiid. One pick away from Porzingis. The anti-tank sentiment that have pressured our head coaches to win meaningless games literally put us out of position to land elite prospects. Therefore, we have been faced with result of having to select more raw prospects who need time to develop. ...and this upsets fans because the process is now much slower and more unsure.

You should've let the tank happen with open arms instead of complaining about having a losing coach (Vaughn) and being joyful of having a quick turn around coach (Skiles). If we don't make the playoffs this year, accept it. I see fans threatening to stop going to games, threatening to stop watching the Magic, threatening to stop posting even...

Isn't this pattern much better than the one above?

Losing --> Draft an elite prospect --> Losing --> Draft an elite prospect --> Losing --> Draft an elite prospect --> Elite prospects produce sooner than raw prospects --> Star FAs wants to form a Superpower team that has young elite talent --> Winning.

[Skin]

If people truly believe that you may as well tank if you don't have a contender, then 25-26 teams may as well just close up shop and liquidate. Because, there is no such thing as that philosophy. You have to build and develop teams, not win them in the lottery.

We have done what you have wanted. We executed a poor tank.

We are developing our best young talent and are complaining about the season. What gives?

Last time we had contenders we drafted Shaq/Penny and Dwight. Don't tell me "You have to build and develop teams, not win them in the lottery."

[BadMofoPimp]

You're an anti-tanker right BMP?

I am the Anti-(tank for 5 years kinda guy). A year or two, I understand, but do you really think fans are gonna sit around for 5-10 years waiting for a GM to win a superstar in the draft while intentionally putting a crappy product on the floor?

Regardless how much money a Businessman thinks they will make off winning one superstar, the money they lose for 5-10 freaking years ain't worth it. This is just a poor excuse of a GM praying to the basketball gods year after year he gets lucky in the Lottery.

This is the pattern I see you talking about:

Losing --> Impatient fans --> Threats to stop following the team --> Ownership losing money --> Pressure on GM to start winning --> HC hot seat --> Meaningless wins --> Very difficult rebuild unless you get lucky in the lottery --> More losing. Rinse and repeat.

Let's be real. You were the Anti-tank guy in years 1 and 2 as well. You were so anti-tank that you were disgusted with "Joke" Vaughn and wanted him gone. Going into year 3 we didn't hear the end of it. ...and many a Magic fan here were with you. The idea of wanting to win every game possible during a rebuild AND being able to draft an elite prospect has far too thin odds of happening. It takes extreme lottery luck... and we just haven't had that.

I thought we properly executed the tank in year 1, landing Dipo #2 overall. But the impatience of the fans to properly accept a tank have hurt us since. One pick away from Wiggins/Parker/Embiid. One pick away from Porzingis. The anti-tank sentiment that have pressured our head coaches to win meaningless games literally put us out of position to land elite prospects. Therefore, we have been faced with result of having to select more raw prospects who need time to develop. ...and this upsets fans because the process is now much slower and more unsure.

You should've let the tank happen with open arms instead of complaining about having a losing coach (Vaughn) and being joyful of having a quick turn around coach (Skiles). If we don't make the playoffs this year, accept it. I see fans threatening to stop going to games, threatening to stop watching the Magic, threatening to stop posting even...

Isn't this pattern much better than the one above?

Losing --> Draft an elite prospect --> Losing --> Draft an elite prospect --> Losing --> Draft an elite prospect --> Elite prospects produce sooner than raw prospects --> Star FAs wants to form a Superpower team that has young elite talent --> Winning.

Even though I am against Tanking altogether, I can deal with 1 or 2 years, but 5 years of tanking is absolutely absurd. It is like going to the racetrack praying to win some money so you don't have to tell ur wife you lost money. Henny gambled and lost. There wasn't too much skill in that. Whereas, a better GM would have developed players and been more aggressive in Free Agency and trades to develop and build a better nucleus.

[Skin]

I am the Anti-(tank for 5 years kinda guy). A year or two, I understand, but do you really think fans are gonna sit around for 5-10 years waiting for a GM to win a superstar in the draft while intentionally putting a crappy product on the floor?

Regardless how much money a Businessman thinks they will make off winning one superstar, the money they lose for 5-10 freaking years ain't worth it. This is just a poor excuse of a GM praying to the basketball gods year after year he gets lucky in the Lottery.

This is the pattern I see you talking about:

Losing --> Impatient fans --> Threats to stop following the team --> Ownership losing money --> Pressure on GM to start winning --> HC hot seat --> Meaningless wins --> Very difficult rebuild unless you get lucky in the lottery --> More losing. Rinse and repeat.

Let's be real. You were the Anti-tank guy in years 1 and 2 as well. You were so anti-tank that you were disgusted with "Joke" Vaughn and wanted him gone. Going into year 3 we didn't hear the end of it. ...and many a Magic fan here were with you. The idea of wanting to win every game possible during a rebuild AND being able to draft an elite prospect has far too thin odds of happening. It takes extreme lottery luck... and we just haven't had that.

I thought we properly executed the tank in year 1, landing Dipo #2 overall. But the impatience of the fans to properly accept a tank have hurt us since. One pick away from Wiggins/Parker/Embiid. One pick away from Porzingis. The anti-tank sentiment that have pressured our head coaches to win meaningless games literally put us out of position to land elite prospects. Therefore, we have been faced with result of having to select more raw prospects who need time to develop. ...and this upsets fans because the process is now much slower and more unsure.

You should've let the tank happen with open arms instead of complaining about having a losing coach (Vaughn) and being joyful of having a quick turn around coach (Skiles). If we don't make the playoffs this year, accept it. I see fans threatening to stop going to games, threatening to stop watching the Magic, threatening to stop posting even...

Isn't this pattern much better than the one above?

Losing --> Draft an elite prospect --> Losing --> Draft an elite prospect --> Losing --> Draft an elite prospect --> Elite prospects produce sooner than raw prospects --> Star FAs wants to form a Superpower team that has young elite talent --> Winning.

Even though I am against Tanking altogether, I can deal with 1 or 2 years, but 5 years of tanking is absolutely absurd. It is like going to the racetrack praying to win some money so you don't have to tell ur wife you lost money. Henny gambled and lost. There wasn't too much skill in that. Whereas, a better GM would have developed players and been more aggressive in Free Agency and trades to develop and build a better nucleus.

If that's your feeling, then how are the Magic going against you? If anything, they are going against me (a pro tanker). They fired Vaughn for not winning in year 3. They hired Skiles (known as a quick turn around - then plateau kinda guy). They committed to developing players and were very aggressive in trade and FA last summer. So how are they making you upset? Are you saying the path to success should've been much faster? If you don't like tanking, then you don't get elite prospects in the draft that can produce out of the gates. So this is what you have to face... A slower development curve. On top of that, if you told me last year that we would have Ibaka and Biyombo right now (without losing Gordon, Payton, Vucevic, Fournier or Hezonja and didn't have to take on bad contracts to do so), I would say "Thank you Henny for being aggressive in FA and trades and building a better nucleus".

I don't know why there isn't more patience to this process from you considering you're an anti-tank guy. This is exactly what you get for anti-tanking.

[Steelo Green]

I haven't seen your team recently but is Vogel still playing Gordon at the three? I think he's an incredible talent but he has to play the four.

[The Other Ankle]

I haven't seen your team recently but is Vogel still playing Gordon at the three? I think he's an incredible talent but he has to play the four.

His talent at the 3 has been the only thing worth watching recently...

[drsd]

If people truly believe that you may as well tank if you don't have a contender, then 25-26 teams may as well just close up shop and liquidate. Because, there is no such thing as that philosophy. You have to build and develop teams, not win them in the lottery.

The 80s / 90s Clippers prove this point!


..

[craig01]

If people truly believe that you may as well tank if you don't have a contender, then 25-26 teams may as well just close up shop and liquidate. Because, there is no such thing as that philosophy. You have to build and develop teams, not win them in the lottery.

The 80s / 90s Clippers prove this point!


..

If I remember correctly, the Clippers went through around a 30-year stretch with making the playoffs only four times.

[IGotDaMagicInMe]

You're an anti-tanker right BMP?

I am the Anti-(tank for 5 years kinda guy). A year or two, I understand, but do you really think fans are gonna sit around for 5-10 years waiting for a GM to win a superstar in the draft while intentionally putting a crappy product on the floor?

Regardless how much money a Businessman thinks they will make off winning one superstar, the money they lose for 5-10 freaking years ain't worth it. This is just a poor excuse of a GM praying to the basketball gods year after year he gets lucky in the Lottery.

This is the pattern I see you talking about:

Losing --> Impatient fans --> Threats to stop following the team --> Ownership losing money --> Pressure on GM to start winning --> HC hot seat --> Meaningless wins --> Very difficult rebuild unless you get lucky in the lottery --> More losing. Rinse and repeat.

Let's be real. You were the Anti-tank guy in years 1 and 2 as well. You were so anti-tank that you were disgusted with "Joke" Vaughn and wanted him gone. Going into year 3 we didn't hear the end of it. ...and many a Magic fan here were with you. The idea of wanting to win every game possible during a rebuild AND being able to draft an elite prospect has far too thin odds of happening. It takes extreme lottery luck... and we just haven't had that.

I thought we properly executed the tank in year 1, landing Dipo #2 overall. But the impatience of the fans to properly accept a tank have hurt us since. One pick away from Wiggins/Parker/Embiid. One pick away from Porzingis. The anti-tank sentiment that have pressured our head coaches to win meaningless games literally put us out of position to land elite prospects. Therefore, we have been faced with result of having to select more raw prospects who need time to develop. ...and this upsets fans because the process is now much slower and more unsure.

You should've let the tank happen with open arms instead of complaining about having a losing coach (Vaughn) and being joyful of having a quick turn around coach (Skiles). If we don't make the playoffs this year, accept it. I see fans threatening to stop going to games, threatening to stop watching the Magic, threatening to stop posting even...

Isn't this pattern much better than the one above?

Losing --> Draft an elite prospect --> Losing --> Draft an elite prospect --> Losing --> Draft an elite prospect --> Elite prospects produce sooner than raw prospects --> Star FAs wants to form a Superpower team that has young elite talent --> Winning.

You know, porzingis or Wiggins wouldn't put us in the playoffs. Both are on the outside just like us. People were crowning twolves and they aren't looking too good this year. Hell there are a lot of team that have been "promising" for awhile now that haven't done anything. Minny, milwaukee, ny, Detroit, philly, new Orleans, Portland, Phoenix. And many of those teams have "stars". Yet I'm looking at these teams like Boston and Toronto that before they became as good as they are weren't getting hype. Boston had lost rondo and nobody thought much of guys like IT and Lowry for Toronto. Neither of those teams hit it big in the lottery. They just made winning moves and scouted well and developed players.

Toronto lost Bosh, had 13th, 5th, 8th picks and they were back. I don't believe they had a firesale or tanked. Boston lost all their core and rondo and barely suffered a hiccup and then shot right back up, they didn't tank. I'm totally fine letting Philly's process play out but I think being competitive is worth.more than a high pick. You can swing trades for lottery protect picks and all of your Steph Curry's and derozan weren't picked in the top 5

Sent from my SM-N910T3 using RealGM mobile app

[drsd]

To make the playoffs the team needs to go about 24-14. That's a 63% win rate. Their are only two Eastern teams winning at that clip: Cleveland and Toronto.

The season is finished. And it's finished before the All Star Break.

Sad.




..

[JAY DASH]

Moving forward we really just need to evaluate our guys through different lenses. I look at the roster and say does ____ have the potential to be a starting ____ on a Championship caliber team in the next 5 years? If my answer is No, that player is expendable to me.

When I look at the Bucks I see four players that have the potential to be starters on a championship caliber team in five years. Brogdon/Middleton/Giannis/Jabari. That let's me know they are on the right track. The only players I see that have potential to be on a title contender on our team is Evan as a SG on a team with an elite PG or SF (Spurs/Cavs for example) or Aaron Gordon as a PF on a team that plays an uptempo style of basketball.

Everyone else just has too many holes in their game to add that kind of value to a great team. Even looking at all of the guys we gave away, not many of them are really game changers in the grand scheme of things. We should have gotten more back for a guy like Tobias, but even he is just a marginal talent on a lower level playoff team. Harkless is a good energy guy off the bench. Starts for Portland but he doesn't have starter talent. Dedmon is going to play a key role for the Spurs in the playoffs because Gasol and LA really can't play extended minutes on the court at the same time against GS in the playoffs. Can't find a much worse defensive interior than those two together. Dipo is probably the best value that we gave away, but it's not like we traded away a Giannis or a Jokic. We simply haven't lucked into drafting a guy like that yet, and that's why we're still searching for hope.