Official Trade Thread - Part XXXI

[bsilver]

What do you guys about a guy like hawes???
As good as a rim protector as gortathe maybe better..great shooter and an underrated passer...not as good as a rebounder but we have porter
He could be had for a 2nd....or maybe a future 1st pick swap

I always thought of him as a below average defender and rebounder. A good shooter as you say. His offense started out as a mid-range jump shooter, and later added 3-pointers.
Seems a bit redundant as long as we have Jason Smith. If Mahinmi comes back we don't need to be spending resources at C.

[payitforward]

...In '12, I wanted to trade down and pick Lillard. Looks like Beal has really blossomed THIS season; but, Lillard/Wall would have been lethal.

(I also wanted McCollum his draft year).

Well, I hope you didn't want McCollum (who went #10) over Porter that year. But I assume you aren't saying that.

I doubt you remember, but the run-up to the 2012 draft was when I began posting here. If we were picking #3, I wanted Beal, but I preferred, & posted, a really radical trade-down strategy for that draft, to which people responded like it was crazy (& in a way, it was) & so was I (no, I was very smart as one can see in retrospect).

I thought all these moves were do-able. I wanted to trade our #3 to Portland for their #s 6 & 11. At 6, I wanted to pick Drummond. Then I wanted to trade #11 to Houston for their #s 16 & 18. I wanted to turn around & trade their #16 to Boston for their #s21 & 23. At 18, I wanted to take either Jared Sullinger or Evan Fournier. W/ #21, I wanted to take the other of Sully/Fournier. I wanted to trade the Celtics #23 to the Mavericks for their #s33 & 34. With our #32, I'd have taken Jae Crowder. With the next two, I wanted to take Draymond Green & Will Barton. I also didn't have us trading that #46, remember, & had O'Quinn targeted for that pick.

My plan, which I still think would have been possible to do, would have gotten us:

Andre Drummond
Evan Fournier
Jared Sullinger
Jae Crowder
Draymond Green
Will Barton
Kyle O'Quinn

Not a bad haul, huh?

[Meliorus]

...In '12, I wanted to trade down and pick Lillard. Looks like Beal has really blossomed THIS season; but, Lillard/Wall would have been lethal.

(I also wanted McCollum his draft year).

Well, I hope you didn't want McCollum (who went #10) over Porter that year. But I assume you aren't saying that.

I doubt you remember, but the run-up to the 2012 draft was when I began posting here. If we were picking #3, I wanted Beal, but I preferred, & posted, a really radical trade-down strategy for that draft, to which people responded like it was crazy (& in a way, it was) & so was I (no, I was very smart as one can see in retrospect).

I thought all these moves were do-able. I wanted to trade our #3 to Portland for their #s 6 & 11. At 6, I wanted to pick Drummond. Then I wanted to trade #11 to Houston for their #s 16 & 18. I wanted to turn around & trade their #16 to Boston for their #s21 & 23. At 18, I wanted to take either Jared Sullinger or Evan Fournier. W/ #21, I wanted to take the other of Sully/Fournier. I wanted to trade the Celtics #23 to the Mavericks for their #s33 & 34. With our #32, I'd have taken Jae Crowder. With the next two, I wanted to take Draymond Green & Will Barton. I also didn't have us trading that #46, remember, & had O'Quinn targeted for that pick.

My plan, which I still think would have been possible to do, would have gotten us:

Andre Drummond
Evan Fournier
Jared Sullinger
Jae Crowder
Draymond Green
Will Barton
Kyle O'Quinn

Not a bad haul, huh?

And why exactly would Houston, Boston, and Dallas do those trades??? Everyone knows there's barely a difference between #11 and #16, and you're also asking Houston to throw in #18? Same goes with the Celtics, there's an even smaller gap between #16 and #21/23. You're basically asking teams to keep giving us 2 first rounders for 1 first rounder. How many of those 4 trade partners do you expect would actually agree to those trades? Only once I see is Portland wanting to move up.

[ozthegap]

Oh man I just had a nightmare that EG traded our draft pick for Smush Parker.

[deneem4]

What do you guys about a guy like hawes???
As good as a rim protector as gortathe maybe better..great shooter and an underrated passer...not as good as a rebounder but we have porter
He could be had for a 2nd....or maybe a future 1st pick swap

I always thought of him as a below average defender and rebounder. A good shooter as you say. His offense started out as a mid-range jump shooter, and later added 3-pointers.
Seems a bit redundant as long as we have Jason Smith. If Mahinmi comes back we don't need to be spending resources at C.

He has a history of good defense...his floor spacing abilities would be more than useful along with his passing abilities...
Gortat can than be traded for a pick or guard and hawes can split pf and center minutes

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

He also has bad knees. Gortat has been serviceable and above average at C overall.

[gambitx777]

All of you saying that you can't trade mahinmi. We traded Arenus, we traded lewis, we traded nick Young, We traded McGee. Any trade is possible. Any one is movable to the right team, at the right price, at the right time.

[nate33]

All of you saying that you can't trade mahinmi. We traded Arenus, we traded lewis, we traded nick Young, We traded McGee. Any trade is possible. Any one is movable to the right team, at the right price, at the right time.

We traded Arenas for $60M in Rashard Lewis' dead weight salary. He gave one half of a decent season and was useless otherwise.

We traded Lewis when he was on the last year of his deal and his $22M contract could be bought out for $14M (meaning it instantly saved $8M off of New Orleans' cap). I don't recall for sure, but it may have gotten New Orleans out of the luxtax and saved them a boatload more money. And we took back the injury-prone and overpaid Okafor, to whom we had to attach a pick to unload the following year.

Nick Young was an expiring, low cost contract and a pretty young player putting up respectable numbers. Being able to move him is no great feat.

McGee was traded for Nene's very expensive contract. It ended up making decent sense from our perspective because we needed a veteran big to right the ship, but it's not like it was some steal of a trade in the abstract. Most teams would not have wanted Nene at that price given his age and injury history.

Mahinmi does not have Lewis' salary cap saving contract, nor does he have the youth and upside of McGee or Young. Moving Mahinmi, right now, given his age, injury and contract would be impossible without attaching a pick to him or taking back an equally horrible contract. He might be moveable this summer if he comes back healthy and plays well over the second half of the season, but he has serious negative value at the moment.

[Meliorus]

All of you saying that you can't trade mahinmi. We traded Arenus, we traded lewis, we traded nick Young, We traded McGee. Any trade is possible. Any one is movable to the right team, at the right price, at the right time.

We traded Arenas for $60M in Rashard Lewis' dead weight salary. He gave one half of a decent season and was useless otherwise.

We traded Lewis when he was on the last year of his deal and his $22M contract could be bought out for $14M (meaning it instantly saved $8M off of New Orleans' cap). I don't recall for sure, but it may have gotten New Orleans out of the luxtax and saved them a boatload more money. And we took back the injury-prone and overpaid Okafor, to whom we had to attach a pick to unload the following year.

Nick Young was an expiring, low cost contract and a pretty young player putting up respectable numbers. Being able to move him is no great feat.

McGee was traded for Nene's very expensive contract. It ended up making decent sense from our perspective because we needed a veteran big to right the ship, but it's not like it was some steal of a trade in the abstract. Most teams would not have wanted Nene at that price given his age and injury history.

Mahinmi does not have Lewis' salary cap saving contract, nor does he have the youth and upside of McGee or Young. Moving Mahinmi, right now, given his age, injury and contract would be impossible without attaching a pick to him or taking back an equally horrible contract. He might be moveable this summer if he comes back healthy and plays well over the second half of the season, but he has serious negative value at the moment.

Calm down guys. Ernie is not going to try to trade him until he plays some games. If he can return to his defensive form, he's easily worth 16 mill+ and Ernie may trade Gortat instead.

[stevemcqueen1]

Someone who follows the 76ers proposed a trade of Jahlil Okafor for one of our bad contracts, our 2017 first, and a 2018 second.

I said deal if the contract was Mahinmi and I got top three protection on the 2017 pick.

But it got me thinking, what if the deal was Mahinmi and an adequately protected 2017 first (top ten?) for Noel? Dumping Mahinmi would presumably give us the ability to sign Noel without hitting the luxury tax.

And the 76ers have the cap space to absorb Mahinmi's deal. They don't have the ability to sign any free agent worth a damn for a few years, so the primary use for their cap space is making unbalanced trades.

If we were dealing with the 76ers, would you rather get back Okafor or Noel?

[Meliorus]

Someone who follows the 76ers proposed a trade of Jahlil Okafor for one of our bad contracts, our 2017 first, and a 2018 second.

I said deal if the contract was Mahinmi and I got top three protection on the 2017 pick.

But it got me thinking, what if the deal was Mahinmi and an adequately protected 2017 first (top ten?) for Noel? Dumping Mahinmi would presumably give us the ability to sign Noel without hitting the luxury tax.

And the 76ers have the cap space to absorb Mahinmi's deal. They don't have the ability to sign any free agent worth a damn for a few years, so the primary use for their cap space is making unbalanced trades.

If we were dealing with the 76ers, would you rather get back Okafor or Noel?

Noel of course. Okafor makes our defensively challenged team even worse. He will never be more than a backup in this league. Noel is the perfect player for Wall.

[montestewart]

Someone who follows the 76ers proposed a trade of Jahlil Okafor for one of our bad contracts, our 2017 first, and a 2018 second.

I said deal if the contract was Mahinmi and I got top three protection on the 2017 pick.

But it got me thinking, what if the deal was Mahinmi and an adequately protected 2017 first (top ten?) for Noel? Dumping Mahinmi would presumably give us the ability to sign Noel without hitting the luxury tax.

And the 76ers have the cap space to absorb Mahinmi's deal. They don't have the ability to sign any free agent worth a damn for a few years, so the primary use for their cap space is making unbalanced trades.

If we were dealing with the 76ers, would you rather get back Okafor or Noel?

Noel of course. Okafor makes our defensively challenged team even worse. He will never be more than a backup in this league. Noel is the perfect player for Wall.

Agree, but Wall, Beal, Porter, Noel, the remains of whatever (Gortat, Morris, Satoransky), no cap space, no decent young cheap players, a buch of bloated and untradable contracts (Nicholson, Smith), and EG running the show, the Wizards ceiling may not be much above the top end of Grunfeldian mediocrity (2nd round is their NBA finals, ECF is their title).

[Meliorus]

Someone who follows the 76ers proposed a trade of Jahlil Okafor for one of our bad contracts, our 2017 first, and a 2018 second.

I said deal if the contract was Mahinmi and I got top three protection on the 2017 pick.

But it got me thinking, what if the deal was Mahinmi and an adequately protected 2017 first (top ten?) for Noel? Dumping Mahinmi would presumably give us the ability to sign Noel without hitting the luxury tax.

And the 76ers have the cap space to absorb Mahinmi's deal. They don't have the ability to sign any free agent worth a damn for a few years, so the primary use for their cap space is making unbalanced trades.

If we were dealing with the 76ers, would you rather get back Okafor or Noel?

Noel of course. Okafor makes our defensively challenged team even worse. He will never be more than a backup in this league. Noel is the perfect player for Wall.

Agree, but Wall, Beal, Porter, Noel, the remains of whatever (Gortat, Morris, Satoransky), no cap space, no decent young cheap players, a buch of bloated and untradable contracts (Nicholson, Smith), and EG running the show, the Wizards ceiling may not be much above the top end of Grunfeldian mediocrity (2nd round is their NBA finals, ECF is their title).

Well, don't trade our pick at all then. We can get a good front-court player on a dirt-cheap rookie contract.

[payitforward]

...In '12, I wanted to trade down and pick Lillard. Looks like Beal has really blossomed THIS season; but, Lillard/Wall would have been lethal.

(I also wanted McCollum his draft year).

Well, I hope you didn't want McCollum (who went #10) over Porter that year. But I assume you aren't saying that.

I doubt you remember, but the run-up to the 2012 draft was when I began posting here. If we were picking #3, I wanted Beal, but I preferred, & posted, a really radical trade-down strategy for that draft, to which people responded like it was crazy (& in a way, it was) & so was I (no, I was very smart as one can see in retrospect).

I thought all these moves were do-able. I wanted to trade our #3 to Portland for their #s 6 & 11. At 6, I wanted to pick Drummond. Then I wanted to trade #11 to Houston for their #s 16 & 18. I wanted to turn around & trade their #16 to Boston for their #s21 & 23. At 18, I wanted to take either Jared Sullinger or Evan Fournier. W/ #21, I wanted to take the other of Sully/Fournier. I wanted to trade the Celtics #23 to the Mavericks for their #s33 & 34. With our #32, I'd have taken Jae Crowder. With the next two, I wanted to take Draymond Green & Will Barton. I also didn't have us trading that #46, remember, & had O'Quinn targeted for that pick.

My plan, which I still think would have been possible to do, would have gotten us:

Andre Drummond
Evan Fournier
Jared Sullinger
Jae Crowder
Draymond Green
Will Barton
Kyle O'Quinn

Not a bad haul, huh?

And why exactly would Houston, Boston, and Dallas do those trades??? Everyone knows there's barely a difference between #11 and #16, and you're also asking Houston to throw in #18? Same goes with the Celtics, there's an even smaller gap between #16 and #21/23. You're basically asking teams to keep giving us 2 first rounders for 1 first rounder. How many of those 4 trade partners do you expect would actually agree to those trades? Only once I see is Portland wanting to move up.

Not only that, Meliorus, but if Portland doesn't want the deal, the rest of the deals can't happen. And if Houston doesn't want the deal the next two can't happen. And if the Celtics don't want the deal, the Mavs deal isn't there.

Or, to put it another way, what's your point? This was my fantasy strategy of 4.5 years ago. It was a dream, and at present, obviously, it's meaningless.

OTOH, what you write in particular is not necessarily true. There might be a big difference between 11 & 16 -- if there's a guy you want, that is, who'll be there at 11 but not at 16. And, if there's a guy you want who'll be there at 16 but will be gone at 21, then there could also a big difference between those two positions. And on down the line. After all, we traded a R2 pick on draft day 2015 to move up 3 picks.

In fact, of the guys Houston picked @ 16 & 18, one of them never played for them, and the other was a bust. Of the 2 guys Boston picked @ 21 & 22 (not 23, as I mistyped above), one of them played only 36 minutes for them, and they let the other leave w/ no compensation. And, of the 2 guys the Mavericks picked @ 33 & 34, one of them was a bust & the other they traded. In other words, no those extra picks weren't worth much at all, were they? Huh? Well...? Were they worth a lot?

All the same, it was still a fantasy, and of course you are right that any one of those teams might have turned down the deal in my dreams.

[gambitx777]

All of you saying that you can't trade mahinmi. We traded Arenus, we traded lewis, we traded nick Young, We traded McGee. Any trade is possible. Any one is movable to the right team, at the right price, at the right time.

We traded Arenas for $60M in Rashard Lewis' dead weight salary. He gave one half of a decent season and was useless otherwise.

We traded Lewis when he was on the last year of his deal and his $22M contract could be bought out for $14M (meaning it instantly saved $8M off of New Orleans' cap). I don't recall for sure, but it may have gotten New Orleans out of the luxtax and saved them a boatload more money. And we took back the injury-prone and overpaid Okafor, to whom we had to attach a pick to unload the following year.

Nick Young was an expiring, low cost contract and a pretty young player putting up respectable numbers. Being able to move him is no great feat.

McGee was traded for Nene's very expensive contract. It ended up making decent sense from our perspective because we needed a veteran big to right the ship, but it's not like it was some steal of a trade in the abstract. Most teams would not have wanted Nene at that price given his age and injury history.

Mahinmi does not have Lewis' salary cap saving contract, nor does he have the youth and upside of McGee or Young. Moving Mahinmi, right now, given his age, injury and contract would be impossible without attaching a pick to him or taking back an equally horrible contract. He might be moveable this summer if he comes back healthy and plays well over the second half of the season, but he has serious negative value at the moment.

I do not agree. Some team might see it as worth it to take a defencive anchor, who is injured but a solid player, To get an unprotected pick and we might be able to fix the bench in the process. Im not saying we are going to net super stars. I'm saying that mahinmi is serviceable cap filler for a multiple person deal to fix the bench.

[stevemcqueen1]

Someone who follows the 76ers proposed a trade of Jahlil Okafor for one of our bad contracts, our 2017 first, and a 2018 second.

I said deal if the contract was Mahinmi and I got top three protection on the 2017 pick.

But it got me thinking, what if the deal was Mahinmi and an adequately protected 2017 first (top ten?) for Noel? Dumping Mahinmi would presumably give us the ability to sign Noel without hitting the luxury tax.

And the 76ers have the cap space to absorb Mahinmi's deal. They don't have the ability to sign any free agent worth a damn for a few years, so the primary use for their cap space is making unbalanced trades.

If we were dealing with the 76ers, would you rather get back Okafor or Noel?

Noel of course. Okafor makes our defensively challenged team even worse. He will never be more than a backup in this league. Noel is the perfect player for Wall.

I disagree. I think Okafor is flat out better than Noel. And I think he's definitely a starter. If Zach Randolph can start for a long time for a good Memphis team, then Okafor is a starter. The kid would eventually take over the starting role from Gortat. Probably sooner than we'd expect. The kid is physical and he's a lot quicker than his reputation leads you to believe. I think he could be the young big we're looking for.

Mahinmi + 2017 first + 2018 second for Okafor is a no brainer for me.

[Meliorus]

Someone who follows the 76ers proposed a trade of Jahlil Okafor for one of our bad contracts, our 2017 first, and a 2018 second.

I said deal if the contract was Mahinmi and I got top three protection on the 2017 pick.

But it got me thinking, what if the deal was Mahinmi and an adequately protected 2017 first (top ten?) for Noel? Dumping Mahinmi would presumably give us the ability to sign Noel without hitting the luxury tax.

And the 76ers have the cap space to absorb Mahinmi's deal. They don't have the ability to sign any free agent worth a damn for a few years, so the primary use for their cap space is making unbalanced trades.

If we were dealing with the 76ers, would you rather get back Okafor or Noel?

Noel of course. Okafor makes our defensively challenged team even worse. He will never be more than a backup in this league. Noel is the perfect player for Wall.

I disagree. I think Okafor is flat out better than Noel. And I think he's definitely a starter. If Zach Randolph can start for a long time for a good Memphis team, then Okafor is a starter. The kid would eventually take over the starting role from Gortat. Probably sooner than we'd expect. The kid is physical and he's a lot quicker than his reputation leads you to believe. I think he could be the young big we're looking for.

Mahinmi + 2017 first + 2018 second for Okafor is a no brainer for me.

Okafor is a trap player. You see him **** on the Wizards because we don't have good big man defenders and we think he's good. However, look at any advanced metric and you'll see that this guy is mightily challenged on the defensive end. The team is much better with Okafor off the floor. This year, Okafor is 50th among centers in RPM. He actually hurts the team on offense with a -3.72 ORPM. Noel may not be as good as I thought either, but I still think it's hard to play well with guards that awful.

Ideal situation is to just keep the pick. No way on Earth you send the 2017 1st for him. Giving up a 2nd for him would be debatable.

[AFM]

I'm surprised no one has proposed a R1 pick for Rudy Gay S4 trade.

[NatP4]

Illmatic said Otto AND Oubre for Rudy Gay if that counts

[dangermouse]

Okafor I like, but not for a first in a strong draft. I've completely soured on Noel. He'll be good eventually but I think he's too frail right now and his instincts just aren't there to be the defender he's capable of being just yet. And he's gonna cost a lot to sign long term and develop. I wouldnt hate a trade for either of them, but id much MUCH prefer to keep that pick or use it in a different trade for a better player.