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Marcus Smart

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Re: Marcus Smart 

Post#361 » by Gant » Mon Jan 9, 2017 9:01 pm

NormanDale wrote:
sully00 wrote:
NormanDale wrote:
Dennis Johnson made 5 All-Star teams, 8 All-Defense teams (5 1st aned 3 2nd), 2 All-NBA teams (1 1st and 1 2nd), and won a Finals MVP. Do you think Marcus Smart will do that?

I agree he's a great energy guy and a guy you want to have on your team coming off the bench. I just don't see him ever becoming more than that, unless he seriously improves his jump shot.


Dennis Johnson had some pretty tremendous shooting struggles of his own. He also came to the NBA at 22 years old and while having a good rookie year shooting the ball, as he tried to emerge as more of a scorer he shot 41%, 43%, 43% from 2pt land over his first 3 years. His jump shot or lack of it was always a problem. At that point in the NBA most players could knock down 50% of open 15-18 ft jumpers and DJ was terrible so opponents would leave him open from 15-18 ft and dare him to shoot.

When you factor in the up and down of DJ's career before he came to Boston yeah I think Smart could be and even is a very similar player. Smart is 22 is more of a playmaker than DJ and DJ more of a scorer. Both terrible FG%s both game changing defenders, both good rebounders for guards. It is impossible to control for accolades but I think if Smart is on a good team the accolades will follow.


Yea, I guess you see Smart's ceiling as being a lot higher than I do. I don't expect accolades like 1st team All NBA or Finals MVP to be coming his way at any stage.

Dennis Johnson may have had "tremendous shooting struggles," he never shot 37%, which is the best shooting percentage of Smart's career so far. Even Iverson never shot that badly, at his nadir.

I also don't think Smart is at DJ's level defensively at this point, but I realize I'm in the minority on this board in thinking that.


The original point was they had similarities in that both were very physical defenders who could guard not only guys smaller, but much bigger players as well.

They both are not natural shooters, but both like to make things happen in the 4th quarter. So yes they are similar in some ways, especially in their third year.

Smart's lower overall shooting percentage at this stage is mainly because of shooting 3's. Their third year TS% is almost identical. Their rebounding% is almost identical. Their assist% is fairly close with Marcus ahead.

No one thought DJ was headed for the hall of fame in his third year. By his 4th he was considered a malcontent. By his 7th he was traded for Rick Robey. Would anyone trade Smart for Robey?

This is not to say that Smart is on the same career trajectory, just that Smart is reminiscent of DJ in some ways, particularly in shooting struggles, and even moreso in defensive style.
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Re: Marcus Smart 

Post#362 » by sully00 » Tue Jan 10, 2017 12:34 am

NormanDale wrote:
sully00 wrote:
NormanDale wrote:
Dennis Johnson made 5 All-Star teams, 8 All-Defense teams (5 1st aned 3 2nd), 2 All-NBA teams (1 1st and 1 2nd), and won a Finals MVP. Do you think Marcus Smart will do that?

I agree he's a great energy guy and a guy you want to have on your team coming off the bench. I just don't see him ever becoming more than that, unless he seriously improves his jump shot.


Dennis Johnson had some pretty tremendous shooting struggles of his own. He also came to the NBA at 22 years old and while having a good rookie year shooting the ball, as he tried to emerge as more of a scorer he shot 41%, 43%, 43% from 2pt land over his first 3 years. His jump shot or lack of it was always a problem. At that point in the NBA most players could knock down 50% of open 15-18 ft jumpers and DJ was terrible so opponents would leave him open from 15-18 ft and dare him to shoot.

When you factor in the up and down of DJ's career before he came to Boston yeah I think Smart could be and even is a very similar player. Smart is 22 is more of a playmaker than DJ and DJ more of a scorer. Both terrible FG%s both game changing defenders, both good rebounders for guards. It is impossible to control for accolades but I think if Smart is on a good team the accolades will follow.


Yea, I guess you see Smart's ceiling as being a lot higher than I do. I don't expect accolades like 1st team All NBA or Finals MVP to be coming his way at any stage.

Dennis Johnson may have had "tremendous shooting struggles," he never shot 37%, which is the best shooting percentage of Smart's career so far. Even Iverson never shot that badly, at his nadir.

I also don't think Smart is at DJ's level defensively at this point, but I realize I'm in the minority on this board in thinking that.


I don't know if it has to do with ceiling or not. The accolades part doesn't matter Johnson had a couple of years at the start of his career and in the low point of the league, DJ was a good player but the bulk of his career he was a 3rd or 4th option and not an All Star

Your not comparing apples to apples as far as the shooting goes. That is why I brought up the 2pt percentages there was no 3pt shot early in DJ's career and even when there was one he was awful at it 17% for his career. Smart isn't very good from 3 and takes too many of them especially as an overall percentage of his attemtps but he is a much better jump and 3pt shooter than DJ ever was.

I think they were different defenders and the rules were different DJ was maybe the best one on one defender I ever saw. Smart is more versatile position wise and more of a team defender and that is what the rules call for.

I am not saying I think Smart is the next DJ he has long way to go at the same time I would not put an artificial limit on him because he is the same age now that DJ was as a rookie and is still a special talent.

Smart now has 11 starts in what has been a very inconsistent season and he has put up 11.4/4.5/4.7 on 42% shooting and 36% from 3 and an ORTG of 105 and DRTG of 104. To me that indicates the role may be contributing to his struggles not sure what Boston can do about it.

Everyone put a ceiling on Bradley when he was 22 and I don't think that it was 18ppg and 7rpg starting on a team fighting for the 3 seed in the East.
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Re: Marcus Smart 

Post#363 » by NormanDale » Tue Jan 10, 2017 5:52 am

sully00 wrote:
NormanDale wrote:
sully00 wrote:
Dennis Johnson had some pretty tremendous shooting struggles of his own. He also came to the NBA at 22 years old and while having a good rookie year shooting the ball, as he tried to emerge as more of a scorer he shot 41%, 43%, 43% from 2pt land over his first 3 years. His jump shot or lack of it was always a problem. At that point in the NBA most players could knock down 50% of open 15-18 ft jumpers and DJ was terrible so opponents would leave him open from 15-18 ft and dare him to shoot.

When you factor in the up and down of DJ's career before he came to Boston yeah I think Smart could be and even is a very similar player. Smart is 22 is more of a playmaker than DJ and DJ more of a scorer. Both terrible FG%s both game changing defenders, both good rebounders for guards. It is impossible to control for accolades but I think if Smart is on a good team the accolades will follow.


Yea, I guess you see Smart's ceiling as being a lot higher than I do. I don't expect accolades like 1st team All NBA or Finals MVP to be coming his way at any stage.

Dennis Johnson may have had "tremendous shooting struggles," he never shot 37%, which is the best shooting percentage of Smart's career so far. Even Iverson never shot that badly, at his nadir.

I also don't think Smart is at DJ's level defensively at this point, but I realize I'm in the minority on this board in thinking that.


I don't know if it has to do with ceiling or not. The accolades part doesn't matter Johnson had a couple of years at the start of his career and in the low point of the league, DJ was a good player but the bulk of his career he was a 3rd or 4th option and not an All Star

Your not comparing apples to apples as far as the shooting goes. That is why I brought up the 2pt percentages there was no 3pt shot early in DJ's career and even when there was one he was awful at it 17% for his career. Smart isn't very good from 3 and takes too many of them especially as an overall percentage of his attemtps but he is a much better jump and 3pt shooter than DJ ever was.

I think they were different defenders and the rules were different DJ was maybe the best one on one defender I ever saw. Smart is more versatile position wise and more of a team defender and that is what the rules call for.

I am not saying I think Smart is the next DJ he has long way to go at the same time I would not put an artificial limit on him because he is the same age now that DJ was as a rookie and is still a special talent.

Smart now has 11 starts in what has been a very inconsistent season and he has put up 11.4/4.5/4.7 on 42% shooting and 36% from 3 and an ORTG of 105 and DRTG of 104. To me that indicates the role may be contributing to his struggles not sure what Boston can do about it.

Everyone put a ceiling on Bradley when he was 22 and I don't think that it was 18ppg and 7rpg starting on a team fighting for the 3 seed in the East.


Fair enough, and I hope you're right. I was a lot higher on Bradley at 22 than I am on Smart now, but he has exceeded even my expectations. I hope Smart does as well. I don't consider him a "special talent," but, again, I hope I'm wrong.
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Re: Marcus Smart 

Post#364 » by Asian Celtic » Tue Jan 10, 2017 2:44 pm

I can probably say marcus smart has grown and developed well to change from "a lot of haters" into "core believer".

Dudes a keeper.
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Re: Marcus Smart 

Post#365 » by SparringPartner » Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:45 am

They're very similar players from a size and speed standpoint. Billups FT% is the only really obvious shooting difference between the two in this comparison. Marcus is a much better player on the defensive side of the ball. This comparison will keep hope alive for me when it comes to Mr. Smart.

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Re: Marcus Smart 

Post#366 » by jfs1000d » Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:28 am

Smart has everything but consistent scoring. Hey gets scoring, he's a force. I think he's made enough scoring strides this year to make me want to see this througH.


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Re: Marcus Smart 

Post#367 » by Gomes3PC » Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:36 am

Smart was pretty dominant in that 2nd quarter tonight vs. Toronto. When his shot is falling, easy to see why folks love him.
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Re: Marcus Smart 

Post#368 » by SparringPartner » Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:44 am

On the right track with his shooting IMHO.

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Re: Marcus Smart 

Post#369 » by jmr07019 » Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:46 am

Year 1: can't get into paint
Year 2: got into paint but couldn't make the play once he got there
Year 3: starting to make the right play when he gets into the paint but inconsistent

We all focus on his shooting (rightfully so) but he's made excellent strides with his driving game.
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Re: Marcus Smart 

Post#370 » by peachbucket » Wed Jan 11, 2017 6:53 am

He has now made 23 in a row at the line. :o
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Re: Marcus Smart 

Post#371 » by Marvel » Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:06 am

The pace Marcus plays at reminds me so much of CP. I have a renewed boost of confidence in Marcus now as a legit starting PG who can play SG, guard 1-4. He's starting to get that floater going when he gets into the paint. Keep working on that Marcus...and your shooting touch.
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Re: Marcus Smart 

Post#372 » by Marvel » Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:08 am

peachbucket wrote:He has now made 23 in a row at the line. :o


Now at 76% for the season.
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Re: Marcus Smart 

Post#373 » by 2Mas » Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:00 pm

Gomes3PC wrote:Smart was pretty dominant in that 2nd quarter tonight vs. Toronto. When his shot is falling, easy to see why folks love him.

Yeah to be honest, it's easy to see why people love him even when his shots aren't falling. The issue with me is his shot selection. Even in the first qtr last night he forces that mid range & chucks 2 3's (1 went in). I was like here we go with his wanna be Klay style.

But he really got it together after that. Love when he's playing in slowmo pace. His floor game is coming around.

Hes just such a spazz lol. Always whaling & all over the place (I say that as a gift & a curse).

His improvement over the course of the course of the season is clear. Its encouraging. If he can continue to play his game, hes awesome.


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Re: Marcus Smart 

Post#374 » by SmartWentCrazy » Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:22 pm

Posted this on the trade board, but Smart is showing serious signs of improvement of late. During the last month and a half (20 games), he's shooting 40.5/34.3/86 and a TS% of .542.

Taking away his last second heaves, he's shooting near 34% from three this season.
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Re: Marcus Smart 

Post#375 » by KumaJG » Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:25 pm

Not sure if this is a hot stretch or actual improvement
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Re: Marcus Smart 

Post#376 » by TheOGJabroni » Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:34 pm

KumaJG wrote:Not sure if this is a hot stretch or actual improvement

It feels like he's taking what the game is giving to him, rather than just jacking up threes. I have to credit Brad for finally playing him at PG. It seems to make a world of difference when he's not playing off the ball and doesn't need to be so reliant on his jumper.
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Re: Marcus Smart 

Post#377 » by BRUNiNHO91 » Wed Jan 11, 2017 4:17 pm

He's been way better since Rozier went to the bench. Playing him at PG brings out his better qualities. Great to see him defend he's such a defensive stud.
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Re: Marcus Smart 

Post#378 » by Dannyboy36 » Thu Jan 12, 2017 5:20 pm

jmr07019 wrote:Year 1: can't get into paint
Year 2: got into paint but couldn't make the play once he got there
Year 3: starting to make the right play when he gets into the paint but inconsistent

We all focus on his shooting (rightfully so) but he's made excellent strides with his driving game.


I a agree with this. I wish he was fat tracked more into the ball handling role. I think it has held him back, but I give him credit working at it.
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Re: Marcus Smart 

Post#379 » by KumaJG » Thu Jan 12, 2017 6:24 pm

Smart such a goon.
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Re: Marcus Smart 

Post#380 » by Lester Freamon » Sat Jan 14, 2017 6:41 am

30% and 15% FG in the last two: he's back on Earth

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