Game 42: Pistons (18-23) @ Jazz (24-16) - 10:30 PM EST

[Arp590]

Man Marcus is so good, i'm glad we give all our shots to him.
3-15, amazing.

[Finn McCool]

Tim Hardaway balling out for the Hawks. Trade a second round pick for him SVG, you stubborn a-hole.

Only thing I agree with in this quote is, that SVG is a stubborn a-hole.

[JohnReese]

Anyone who saw the first half knew that Utah was playing very relaxed, when they wanted they destroyed us.

[Finn McCool]

Source?

Wishful guess because he doesn't like the guy. No one really knows what was said.

lol, i clearly like Harris, i am just not on my knees for him because i see a dunk highlight and ignore defense. ironic coming from a poster who literally hates on a player being the player the pistons want him to be.

don't recall where i saw the news, but just using common sense. Mook is our 4th-5th option on offense and there are countless quotes from the team how we need Mook to be more aggressive offensively , yet all of a sudden he's complaining about touches? you combine that with the fact that SVG moved TH to the bench "so he could get more touches", it seems more likely than not, TH not mook was complaining.

Also if either of you actually paid any attention instead of waiting to troll, you'd see "playerS complained about touches", so it was more than 1 player, but your obviously not interested in that.

In my opinion... I don't believe you could even justify your assessments using Occam's razor. I think it's fairly clear you have as much bias toward Morris as some others do with Harris. We can all continue to speculate on who actually said what during the team meeting. Although, initial comments were made claiming Baynes called the meeting, and Marcus did most of the talking.

Like you, I can appreciate defense and it's importance... but I think it's less consequential compared to efficiency. I'd prefer players to have a combination of both qualities... honestly.

For the most part, you have some keen insight regarding other players and issues that plague them... but, I'm on the other side of this continued debate.

[DarkSyde]

sounds about right for this team

I just don't get SVG. I can understand not wanting to bench Reggie, as we would never be able to trade him for anything ever again. But surely as a coach trying to make the playoffs he has to be able to see that our team runs at its worst when Reggie is on the court, right? RIGHT??

problem i think is statistically it says RJ in the lineup is much better(i think). i said this before, if we play like we played before RJ's return and end up a .500 team, i'd still watch the team as we played the right way and exciting basketball. Haven't enjoyed pistons basketball for a full game since RJ's return

This times a million. I think they need to put RJ on the trade block. Go with the same lineup before RJ was inserted into the lineup. They were blowing out teams for god sake. SAG let this happen and is now killing the team chemistry.

[El Chivo]

Shoot Mook, shoot.

[bstein14]

Man we are a REALLY bad team without KCP... we are mediocre with him but we're awful without him... Missing him hurts more than missing any other player for sure.

[Redeemed]

Wasn't Morris one of the main guys complaining about touches? Not really surprising he'd keep jacking up shots if that's the case.

actually tobias harris

Source?

http://www.detroitbadboys.com/2016/12/18/13998362/detroit-pistons-team-meeting-blowout-loss-nba-stan-van-gundy-marcus-morris

[Redeemed]

actually tobias harris

Source?

http://www.detroitbadboys.com/2016/12/18/13998362/detroit-pistons-team-meeting-blowout-loss-nba-stan-van-gundy-marcus-morris

I'm sorry this is the wrong link. Tobias was benched in 4th quarter of a game in December for complaining about touches. I believe it was the Dallas game. The topic came up again when SVG moved Tobias to the bench in favor of Leuer. Dan Feldman talked about it on the Locked on Pistons podcast too. Sorry I can find an article link, it isn't a rumor.

And I really like Tobias. He's appears to be a really professional dude.

[Redeemed]

Has the Piston ever had a superstar player?

Isiah Thomas
Grant Hill

[Redeemed]

It is time to start shedding some of the dead weight on the team. If guys aren't hustling play SJ - but let him actually play! Bring back the penetrating and playmaking. Stop the passive handoffs and spot ups. Let Ellenson play. Let the kid air out that three. Play Boban so we can see what we have.

Listen to the offers and start making offers.

Let the smug and complacent dudes sit the bench, play the hungry ones. Wins and losses aside, Pistons ball is hardnosed and competitive. Guys who aren't about competing have to go.

[El Chivo]

It is time to start shedding some of the dead weight on the team. If guys aren't hustling play SJ - but let him actually play! Bring back the penetrating and playmaking. Stop the passive handoffs and spot ups. Let Ellenson play. Let the kid air out that three. Play Boban so we can see what we have.

Listen to the offers and start making offers.

Let the smug and complacent dudes sit the bench, play the hungry ones. Wins and losses aside, Pistons ball is hardnosed and competitive. Guys who aren't about competing have to go.

Agreed

[In SVG We Trust]

It is time to start shedding some of the dead weight on the team. If guys aren't hustling play SJ - but let him actually play! Bring back the penetrating and playmaking. Stop the passive handoffs and spot ups. Let Ellenson play. Let the kid air out that three. Play Boban so we can see what we have.

Listen to the offers and start making offers.

Let the smug and complacent dudes sit the bench, play the hungry ones. Wins and losses aside, Pistons ball is hardnosed and competitive. Guys who aren't about competing have to go.

I'm 100% with you man!

[Blkbrd671]

Wishful guess because he doesn't like the guy. No one really knows what was said.

lol, i clearly like Harris, i am just not on my knees for him because i see a dunk highlight and ignore defense. ironic coming from a poster who literally hates on a player being the player the pistons want him to be.

don't recall where i saw the news, but just using common sense. Mook is our 4th-5th option on offense and there are countless quotes from the team how we need Mook to be more aggressive offensively , yet all of a sudden he's complaining about touches? you combine that with the fact that SVG moved TH to the bench "so he could get more touches", it seems more likely than not, TH not mook was complaining.

Also if either of you actually paid any attention instead of waiting to troll, you'd see "playerS complained about touches", so it was more than 1 player, but your obviously not interested in that.

In my opinion... I don't believe you could even justify your assessments using Occam's razor. I think it's fairly clear you have as much bias toward Morris as some others do with Harris. We can all continue to speculate on who actually said what during the team meeting. Although, initial comments were made claiming Baynes called the meeting, and Marcus did most of the talking.

Like you, I can appreciate defense and it's importance... but I think it's less consequential compared to efficiency. I'd prefer players to have a combination of both qualities... honestly.

For the most part, you have some keen insight regarding other players and issues that plague them... but, I'm on the other side of this continued debate.

To be clear, i was responding to someone claiming it was Mook complaining about touches, and all these sour puss from yesterday saw a small opening to create a little debate to feel better about it. I said it was tobias because i recall reading a beat writer indicate Tobais was one of those that was frustrated, however i can't find the post. Just know, unlike others, i don't blow smoke up anyones a* just so i can say "i am right".(still looking for the article).

On the other hand, you'll note non of those posters are providing any substance or relevant news to indicate it was mook complaining and i at the very least provided a logical argument that it isn't mook. To recap the logic, it makes very little sense for a player who is our 5th option and additionally a player whom our coach and players have said , "needs to assert himself " to all of a sudden complain about touches when the team is complaining about him not wanting touches. Seems a bit out of character from the narrative provided by insiders and our coach. and because a player controls the meeting doesn't make him the perpetrator but rather the adult.

What i did find was this

Andre

"There's a lot of emotion going on, that some guys aren't going to get as many touches as they were in previous months," Drummond said. "Guys accepted it. It's kind of like a wakeup call. We've got to wake up. It's a whole different situation, but Reggie's back and we've all got to come to grasp with it.

Before RJ returned the 2 players with our highest usage were TH and KCP. While both struggled offensively after "the return", Harris's was much more noticeable because KCP impacts the game on both ends. In other words, when TH isn't scoring, what is he bringing to the team? Also TH is the only one of the 2 during that stretch that saw instances of significant reduction in minutes and a longer "slump stretch". Furthermore, subsequent to this meeting, SVG makes a move to bench Harris, so "TH can get more touches". Coincidence????

While its legitimate point that "improving defense" was the reason the move was made , fact of the matter is SVG also mentioned getting TH more touches because its hard to find them for him in the starting unit. I'll admit that this doesn't eliminate KCP as a possible suspect except SVG also said this

And Caldwell-Pope earned every minute Van Gundy plays him – down a few this year, still a team-high 33.1 per game – and every play call he directs to him.

“He never says anything. He just goes out and plays,” Van Gundy said. “I don’t think I’ve had one complaint from him in two-plus years. Nothing. He’ll get upset like anybody at something you say to him during the game, but as far as ‘I need the ball; I need more shots,’ nah. I’ve never had any of that from him.”

While this is not "certain proof" that it was TH,its more than anything the other side is providing. These guys are just and1 each others post cuz they lack the ability to use there own logic or are intentionally ignoring it so they feel like they have a posse(too soon??).

Also to clarify, i don't hate TH, i hate that he sucks at defense, but you'll find post all over game threads where i am on my knees for his offensive game. Its just sad that we still have posters that want to start players because they see a highlight jam

[Blkbrd671]

Source?

http://www.detroitbadboys.com/2016/12/18/13998362/detroit-pistons-team-meeting-blowout-loss-nba-stan-van-gundy-marcus-morris

I'm sorry this is the wrong link. Tobias was benched in 4th quarter of a game in December for complaining about touches. I believe it was the Dallas game. The topic came up again when SVG moved Tobias to the bench in favor of Leuer. Dan Feldman talked about it on the Locked on Pistons podcast too. Sorry I can find an article link, it isn't a rumor.

And I really like Tobias. He's appears to be a really professional dude.

Thx Redeem, i also can't find the damn article but i do recall reading it. Also if i recall correctly, he's also complained about touches on other teams.

I also agree that TH is professional and to be frank, if our offense is struggling and he's not getting the ball, HE SHOULD COMPLAIN.

[Kilo]

Stan filled this team with guys who would never challenge him, he doesn't want anybody with superstar ego's and neutered the only gy who had that possible swagger in Johnson. Van Gundy doesn't want anybody to challenge his authority or his decisions he wants a team who he can control without any pushback or headaches - well he got one. Just that players without edge/ego in the lockerroom are players without edge/ego on the court.

Best thing might be the move downtown and Gores wanting a big shake up to bring some interest because supposedly ticket sales are really lacking and they can't have a sad sack team with no fan interest moving down town. Both the Wings and Pistons could be non-play off teams with little hope making the arena move - does that usually happen where the team moving royally sucks?

[russkopp]

And let's take a look at national writers opinions on the Pistons...

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Alright then...

[Kilo]

So bloody tired of Stan harping on defense when to a friggin man every player he's brought in via trade or free agent has had known defensive deficiencies or in the very least not known for defensive acumen.

[El Chivo]

And let's take a look at national writers opinions on the Pistons...

Read on Twitter

Read on Twitter

Alright then...

But our homer users will keep preaching patience

[7r5ur]

So bloody tired of Stan harping on defense when to a friggin man every player he's brought in via trade or free agent has had known defensive deficiencies or in the very least not known for defensive acumen.

Problem is Stan thinks (or at least thought) that he can "fix" everyone. He turned teams with Jameer Nelson, Hedo, Rashard Lewis, Rafer Alston, and JJ Reddick into a decent defensive team at one point, so he was probably a little over confident.