2016-2017 College Basketball / '17 NBA Draft Thread

[Marcus]

Fultz will be killer running the PnR with Embiid though. He'll be similar to D'Angelo Russell there with less shooting and passing ability but better finishing around the rim. Also Fultz showed his NBA full court speed in the second half of that Stanford game. He's speedier than Russell. I agree he's not very impressive in the half court though -- needs to get an edge through a pick then he can use his length and line drive speed to get to the rim. You can't really just put him in an iso and let him work. He's also a full year younger than Jackson.

Can you rely on Ball to run the PnR with his apparent lack of mid-range game or pull-up? That's a huge question since the PnR is an essential play. Also look how he defended the PnR versus Kentucky -- it was ugly...

I don't want my guard using screens to settle for mid-range pull up jumpers, anyway. U.C.L.A. has evolved into a title contender because they got away from that junk.



I want Lonzo using screens to either drive to the rim and take advantage of his elite finishing ability or creating quick hitters for teammates like this:

Watch on YouTube

Yeah I don't understand the knock on him not hitting a midrange out the PnR. Said it for a while now if he adds a floater or a push shot he'll be fine. He's not a guy that's looking to score out of a PnR anyway. Just needs the floater to keep the bigs honest and everything else option wise opens right up.

[phiphan]

Ball has elite finishing ability? You mean by himself or dishing to other players?

[Sixerscan]

Fultz will be killer running the PnR with Embiid though. He'll be similar to D'Angelo Russell there with less shooting and passing ability but better finishing around the rim. Also Fultz showed his NBA full court speed in the second half of that Stanford game. He's speedier than Russell. I agree he's not very impressive in the half court though -- needs to get an edge through a pick then he can use his length and line drive speed to get to the rim. You can't really just put him in an iso and let him work. He's also a full year younger than Jackson.

Can you rely on Ball to run the PnR with his apparent lack of mid-range game or pull-up? That's a huge question since the PnR is an essential play. Also look how he defended the PnR versus Kentucky -- it was ugly...

I don't want my guard using screens to settle for mid-range pull up jumpers, anyway. U.C.L.A. has evolved into a title contender because they got away from that junk.



I want Lonzo using screens to either drive to the rim and take advantage of his elite finishing ability or creating quick hitters for teammates like this:

Watch on YouTube

Yeah I don't understand the knock on him not hitting a midrange out the PnR. Said it for a while now if he adds a floater or a push shot he'll be fine. He's not a guy that's looking to score out of a PnR anyway. Just needs the floater to keep the bigs honest and everything else option wise opens right up.

Is that really the concern with Ball? From what I've seen my main concern is that he doesn't really get to the rim or draw fouls. I'm not sure whether that is from a lack of skill/athleticism/mentality/whatever.

[smittybanton]

MAVS17 for Okafor, and BKN17 for Noel makes all the sense in the world to me for both teams. If I'm being optimistic, the Sixers can include a future first.

Bryan can make this team his own with Lonzo Ball, Jayson Tatum, Jonathan Isaac, Miles Bridges, Devonte Graham (Det2d), Furkan Korkmaz (2016). Shooting, defense, ballhandling, rim protection, athleticism, speed....

Free agents: Iggy & Illy

[Tankathon right before post: #1 Lonzo Ball (PHI), #2 Markelle Fultz (BKN/BOS), #4 Jayson Tatum (MAVS), #6 Jonathan Isaac (LAL]

[LloydFree]

I don't want my guard using screens to settle for mid-range pull up jumpers, anyway. U.C.L.A. has evolved into a title contender because they got away from that junk.



I want Lonzo using screens to either drive to the rim and take advantage of his elite finishing ability or creating quick hitters for teammates like this:

Watch on YouTube

Yeah I don't understand the knock on him not hitting a midrange out the PnR. Said it for a while now if he adds a floater or a push shot he'll be fine. He's not a guy that's looking to score out of a PnR anyway. Just needs the floater to keep the bigs honest and everything else option wise opens right up.

Is that really the concern with Ball? From what I've seen my main concern is that he doesn't really get to the rim or draw fouls. I'm not sure whether that is from a lack of skill/athleticism/mentality/whatever.

He gets to the rim. He doesn't attempt shots at the rim. Defenses don't stop him from penetrating. He's just constantly looking for the open 3 point shooter. I think that it's a big difference between can't get to the rim and not attempting to shoot at the rim. He gets where he wants on the court.

[Marcus]

I don't want my guard using screens to settle for mid-range pull up jumpers, anyway. U.C.L.A. has evolved into a title contender because they got away from that junk.



I want Lonzo using screens to either drive to the rim and take advantage of his elite finishing ability or creating quick hitters for teammates like this:

Watch on YouTube

Yeah I don't understand the knock on him not hitting a midrange out the PnR. Said it for a while now if he adds a floater or a push shot he'll be fine. He's not a guy that's looking to score out of a PnR anyway. Just needs the floater to keep the bigs honest and everything else option wise opens right up.

Is that really the concern with Ball? From what I've seen my main concern is that he doesn't really get to the rim or draw fouls. I'm not sure whether that is from a lack of skill/athleticism/mentality/whatever.

He doesn't force what's not there I don't think it's a lack of anything.

[Kobblehead]

Ball has elite finishing ability? You mean by himself or dishing to other players?

You don't seem too familiar with Lonzo Ball. He's an elite finisher.

35.9% of his field goals occur at the rim where he finishes at a 75.4% rate.

For comparison:
Markelle Fultz: 29.7% of field goals occur at the rim, finishes at 63.1%.
Dennis Smith: 36.6% of field goals occur at the rim, finishes at 67.1%.
D'Angelo Russell: 21.9% of field goals occurred at the rim, finished at 62.2%.
Malik Monk: 23.3% of field goals occur at the rim, finishes at 73.8% (another elite finisher).
De'Aaron Fox: 47.9% of field goals occur at the rim, finishes at 68.3%.

[Arsenal]

MAVS17 for Okafor, and BKN17 for Noel makes all the sense in the world to me for both teams. If I'm being optimistic, the Sixers can include a future first.

Bryan can make this team his own with Lonzo Ball, Jayson Tatum, Jonathan Isaac, Miles Bridges, Devonte Graham (Det2d), Furkan Korkmaz (2016). Shooting, defense, ballhandling, rim protection, athleticism, speed....

Free agents: Iggy & Illy

[Tankathon right before post: #1 Lonzo Ball (PHI), #2 Markelle Fultz (BKN/BOS), #4 Jayson Tatum (MAVS), #6 Jonathan Isaac (LAL]

Both of those trades are a pipe dream. They're never going to happen.

[Kobblehead]

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Make no mistake, Ball and Monk are vertically explosive players. Some people are under the impression that they are Kendall Marshall and Jamal Murray, respectively because of stigmas. They're not.

[Arsenal]

I think I'd like to see us get Ball and Monk. Our offense would be unstoppable with Ball and Monk extending the defense to 30 feet (ala the Splash Brothers), and with the passing and vision of Simmons and Ball on the court.

I'd LOVE that pair if Ball can adequately guard the 2, and Monk can at least be neutral defensively.

Think there's a much better chance Ball ends up being able to guard 2s than Monk ends up as a net neutral on defense. Neither is good at the point of attack right now guarding point guards/pick and rolls, but Ball has shown good team/scheme instincts on defense. Plus being 6-6 is gravy.

Monk does seem to at least try on defense most of the time (unlike Dennis Smith, for example), but he's so bad at navigating screens and fighting after getting bumped off. It may be that he gets better after his body gets a little better, but I imagine he'll always be somewhat slight and it seems more an awareness issue than anything -- and it's so hard to know what will happen with awareness improvements.

As a side note, Monk + Fultz + Ball all seemed to have intriguing games this weekend. I only really watched Monk live, so will have to track down the other two games and re-watch.

I'm really not too worried about Monk's defense. He should be adequate in time defending the PG spot. Think about it. Already we have a top tier defense with Embiid and backups/3rd stringers in the backcourt who can't defend at all. Monk surely can be a better defender than guys like Sauce, Chacho, and McConnell.

Not worried about Ball defending SG either. He has perfect size for the position and great instincts / awareness.

I think both will be better defenders once their bodies naturally fill out over the next few years.

[Kobblehead]

Malik Monk a better defender than All Pac12 Mr. Everything defensively T.J. McConnell? Hell no.

[phiphan]

Ball has elite finishing ability? You mean by himself or dishing to other players?

You don't seem too familiar with Lonzo Ball. He's an elite finisher.

35.9% of his field goals occur at the rim where he finishes at a 75.4% rate.

For comparison:
Markelle Fultz: 29.7% of field goals occur at the rim, finishes at 63.1%.
Dennis Smith: 36.6% of field goals occur at the rim, finishes at 67.1%.
D'Angelo Russell: 21.9% of field goals occurred at the rim, finished at 62.2%.
Malik Monk: 23.3% of field goals occur at the rim, finishes at 73.8% (another elite finisher).
De'Aaron Fox: 47.9% of field goals occur at the rim, finishes at 68.3%.

We were talking about dribble penetration off the pick and roll -- you're saying he's an elite finisher in that context?

[dkj5061]

Ball has elite finishing ability? You mean by himself or dishing to other players?

You don't seem too familiar with Lonzo Ball. He's an elite finisher.

35.9% of his field goals occur at the rim where he finishes at a 75.4% rate.

For comparison:
Markelle Fultz: 29.7% of field goals occur at the rim, finishes at 63.1%.
Dennis Smith: 36.6% of field goals occur at the rim, finishes at 67.1%.
D'Angelo Russell: 21.9% of field goals occurred at the rim, finished at 62.2%.
Malik Monk: 23.3% of field goals occur at the rim, finishes at 73.8% (another elite finisher).
De'Aaron Fox: 47.9% of field goals occur at the rim, finishes at 68.3%.

Lonzo Ball also gets assisted on 55% of those finishes at the rim, meaning they are likely much easier attempts than other people are getting. For comparison, Markelle Fultz only gets assisted on 21% of his shots at the rim

[Kobblehead]

Well yeah, but he's also a longer, much better athlete than Fultz.

[Negrodamus]

Dedric Lawson is the type of player that will fall to the Spurs and he'll have a 15 year career in the NBA.

[dkj5061]

Well yeah, but he's also a longer, much better athlete than Fultz.

Every measurement on DraftExpress has Markelle Fultz as "longer" (wingspan and even height, but I do think Lonzo is taller). As far as athletes go, I have no idea how you can say he is much better, if better at all. I guess we'll have to wait until the combine, but Fultz looks at least quicker, I'm not sure about faster though.

[Kobblehead]

Dedric Lawson is the type of player that will fall to the Spurs and he'll have a 15 year career in the NBA.

That dude seems impossible to categorize and project at the NBA level.

[dkj5061]

Well yeah, but he's also a longer, much better athlete than Fultz.

Every measurement on DraftExpress has Markelle Fultz as "longer" (wingspan and even height, but I do think Lonzo is taller). As far as athletes go, I have no idea how you can say he is much better, if better at all. I guess we'll have to wait until the combine, but Fultz looks at least quicker, I'm not sure about faster though.

Edit, the measurements for Ball are out of date so I apologize. I still think their wingspans are very close though.

[eagereyez]

Well yeah, but he's also a longer, much better athlete than Fultz.

Every measurement on DraftExpress has Markelle Fultz as "longer" (wingspan and even height, but I do think Lonzo is taller). As far as athletes go, I have no idea how you can say he is much better, if better at all. I guess we'll have to wait until the combine, but Fultz looks at least quicker, I'm not sure about faster though.

Edit, the measurements for Ball are out of date so I apologize. I still think their wingspans are very close though.

Yeah his measurements are from 2014. Not sure how anyone can know who the longer athlete is unless they brought out the tape and measured Ball himself.

[phiphan]

To my eye it's clear that Fultz is a lot longer. I would say Ball is a much better fast twitch athlete but lacks Fultz's power/strength and therefore his ability to finish through contact. I don't really see Ball as having a frame that will fill out whereas Fultz already has a solid build and room to grow.