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Official Trade Thread - Part XXXI

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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XXXI 

Post#1861 » by Meliorus » Sun Jan 15, 2017 1:52 pm

tao_jin wrote:well if there's one thing I'll never see see in my life, it's Okafor diving into the stands for a loose ball.


Can't understand why people want him. He would be in the exact same situation as Nicholson. Teams would pick and roll us to death and Okafor would not be able to stay on the floor. Also, even with his good post moves the team's offense will suffer because post-ups are INEFFICIENT. A team with a decent defensive center neutralizes him easily.

He is a center that fits no parameters. He's not an athletic, low-usage rim-protector. He's not a stretch 5. He's useless and 76ers fans would be laughing to the bank if you offered them a 2017 1st rounder.
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XXXI 

Post#1862 » by payitforward » Sun Jan 15, 2017 3:12 pm

AFM wrote:I'm surprised no one has proposed a R1 pick for Rudy Gay S4 trade.

Wow, do you think they'd go for that? If not, we could sweeten the deal with a R2 pick from... I don't know... maybe 2025?
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XXXI 

Post#1863 » by stevemcqueen1 » Sun Jan 15, 2017 4:48 pm

Meliorus wrote:
tao_jin wrote:well if there's one thing I'll never see see in my life, it's Okafor diving into the stands for a loose ball.


Can't understand why people want him. He would be in the exact same situation as Nicholson. Teams would pick and roll us to death and Okafor would not be able to stay on the floor. Also, even with his good post moves the team's offense will suffer because post-ups are INEFFICIENT. A team with a decent defensive center neutralizes him easily.

He is a center that fits no parameters. He's not an athletic, low-usage rim-protector. He's not a stretch 5. He's useless and 76ers fans would be laughing to the bank if you offered them a 2017 1st rounder.


Last night he dove out of bounds to save a bad pass and it ended up leading to Philly three.

The criticism that he's not athletic and that he doesn't hustle just isn't accurate. He is faster than Gortat, and has way more ability to score over top other bigs. He schooled Gortat again last night and Gortat is a good man defender.

And it's one thing to play the center position with John Wall and Brad Beal as your guards and with Otto Porter on the wing. It's another to play center with Sergio Rodriguez, Gerald Henderson, TJ MCConnell, and Nick Stauskas as your guards. Philly's back court players are, to a man, absolute garbage. None of them can space the floor, make an entry pass, or guard a pick and roll. As a group, they are probably the worst rotation of defenders that any team has in their backcourt.

It'd be a whole different situation for Okafor to be running pick and rolls with Wall and Beal and getting to set up down low against single defenders because the opposing team can't cheat off the perimeter.

And I wouldn't write him off as a defender yet. He came out of Duke after one season, Coach K hasn't taught his guys how to play defense in ten years. And then he ended up on hopeless Philly teams. He doesn't know how to play defense yet. He has room to improve. And as Oubre and Otto mature into bigger and more complete players, we'll be able to use them as our forward tandem, and they will give us more flexibility at the C spot.

Okafor is a talent who is floundering on a terrible team where he was never a good fit in the first place. We're probably going to pick around 17 or 18 at the earliest. Spending that pick to get him PLUS getting out of Mahinmi's contract? That's a good deal.
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XXXI 

Post#1864 » by Dark Faze » Sun Jan 15, 2017 4:51 pm

yea I'd jump on Okafor for a first, just very very very little chance we get a comparable talent with such a pick
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XXXI 

Post#1865 » by nuposse04 » Sun Jan 15, 2017 5:51 pm

I'd actually like to see if we can get Richaun Holmes from Philly. If a 2nd and filler (Thornton?) I'd be down. We need a 4 with some upside, and I think Richaun has plenty of it.
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XXXI 

Post#1866 » by pcbothwel » Sun Jan 15, 2017 5:56 pm

Dark Faze wrote:yea I'd jump on Okafor for a first, just very very very little chance we get a comparable talent with such a pick


Not me. I hate his game and Oubre will be up for an extension at the same time. We need to stagger our talent/contracts more.
I also think there are a number of bigmen in this draft that will be better

Markkanen
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XXXI 

Post#1867 » by payitforward » Sun Jan 15, 2017 6:03 pm

nuposse04 wrote:I'd actually like to see if we can get Richaun Holmes from Philly. If a 2nd and filler (Thornton?) I'd be down. We need a 4 with some upside, and I think Richaun has plenty of it.

:) -- go make that deal, dude!! The sooner the better!

Do you think they'd need more than that? Like... I have some magic ointment we could throw in.
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XXXI 

Post#1868 » by nuposse04 » Sun Jan 15, 2017 6:09 pm

payitforward wrote:
nuposse04 wrote:I'd actually like to see if we can get Richaun Holmes from Philly. If a 2nd and filler (Thornton?) I'd be down. We need a 4 with some upside, and I think Richaun has plenty of it.

:) -- go make that deal, dude!! The sooner the better!

Do you think they'd need more than that? Like... I have some magic ointment we could throw in.


Ointment.. not sure how much they want that...Anal Lube however, definitely has a high demand in Philly.

Seriously though, why the hell did Philly stop playing him? I know they have a log jam up front, but the guy had a solid rookie season. When Simmons comes back maybe we can pry him away. If by some stroke of luck Philly IS in the playoff hunt by then maybe BC would consider adding a "veteran shooter" like Thornton. :lol: :pray:
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XXXI 

Post#1869 » by payitforward » Sun Jan 15, 2017 6:19 pm

No no no on Okafor. Yes yes yes on Noel.

I just don't want to trade our R1 pick at all. But if there were a different way to get Noel, i.e. If his value is down these days & it's a good time to try to acquire him... jump on it. He's just what Meliorus says -- perfect for Wall. & an effective defender -- Noel is a really really promising prospect.

It's a small sample size, but just take a look at Noel's numbers this year. They are great (but... I remind myself -- it's a small sample size!! :) ).

I don't want to trade our '17 pick, or any of our 5 core players. But, the Colangelos might be interested in Morris, who knows? That would be a steal, to get Noel for Morris.
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XXXI 

Post#1870 » by mhd » Sun Jan 15, 2017 9:42 pm

Because Porter will get Max offers this off-season (god how wrong was I about him), and Ted will refuse the pay the luxury tax, what about this deal:

Porter+Nicholson+Burke for Nurkic+Wilson Chandler+Jameer Nelson+Denver's 2017 1st?

We still make the playoffs with that team, Nelson provides a huge upgrade at backup PG, and Nurkic gives us a young big we lack. We dump Nicholson, and we could look to trade Gortat in the off-season for wing help assuming Mahinmi comes back from injury.

That Denver pick could land us a much needed combo guard like Malik Monk, or even Josh Jackson. We could maybe get TJ Leaf or Justin Patton with our other 1st round pick.
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XXXI 

Post#1871 » by Meliorus » Sun Jan 15, 2017 10:00 pm

https://sports.vice.com/en_us/article/will-a-bad-bench-stymie-the-surging-wizards-adam-mares-nba-wraparound

Good read on the Wizards. Some interesting stuff on how Gortat just doesn't fit. Lobs aren't just fun and games. A center who can catch lobs impacts the opponent's defensive schemes.
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XXXI 

Post#1872 » by pcbothwel » Sun Jan 15, 2017 10:16 pm

mhd wrote:Because Porter will get Max offers this off-season (god how wrong was I about him), and Ted will refuse the pay the luxury tax, what about this deal:

Porter+Nicholson+Burke for Nurkic+Wilson Chandler+Jameer Nelson+Denver's 2017 1st?

We still make the playoffs with that team, Nelson provides a huge upgrade at backup PG, and Nurkic gives us a young big we lack. We dump Nicholson, and we could look to trade Gortat in the off-season for wing help assuming Mahinmi comes back from injury.

That Denver pick could land us a much needed combo guard like Malik Monk, or even Josh Jackson. We could maybe get TJ Leaf or Justin Patton with our other 1st round pick.



mhd, Trading Otto is an interesting proposition that not many here want to admit to.
Why? Trading Wall starts a rebuild and trading Beal wouldnt bring enough back with his contract. But Otto is playing at an unbelievable level and his value is at an all time high.

Two other teams that have high picks, need a wing, and need to improve fast are Orlando and New Orleans.
NOP could send their 1st and Evans for OP and Nicholson.
Orlando could send Aaron Gordon and Hezonja for OP and Nicholson. Then we could also get either their pick, or the right to swap if too much (2018 pick if we choose not to swap)

Philly is another wild card. I'd want the worse of their pick or LAL pick, Holmes, and Ilyasova for Nicholson and OP.

My only issue with all this is... EG would be the one making the trade.
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XXXI 

Post#1873 » by mhd » Sun Jan 15, 2017 10:47 pm

pcbothwel wrote:
mhd wrote:Because Porter will get Max offers this off-season (god how wrong was I about him), and Ted will refuse the pay the luxury tax, what about this deal:

Porter+Nicholson+Burke for Nurkic+Wilson Chandler+Jameer Nelson+Denver's 2017 1st?

We still make the playoffs with that team, Nelson provides a huge upgrade at backup PG, and Nurkic gives us a young big we lack. We dump Nicholson, and we could look to trade Gortat in the off-season for wing help assuming Mahinmi comes back from injury.

That Denver pick could land us a much needed combo guard like Malik Monk, or even Josh Jackson. We could maybe get TJ Leaf or Justin Patton with our other 1st round pick.



mhd, Trading Otto is an interesting proposition that not many here want to admit to.
Why? Trading Wall starts a rebuild and trading Beal wouldnt bring enough back with his contract. But Otto is playing at an unbelievable level and his value is at an all time high.

Two other teams that have high picks, need a wing, and need to improve fast are Orlando and New Orleans.
NOP could send their 1st and Evans for OP and Nicholson.
Orlando could send Aaron Gordon and Hezonja for OP and Nicholson. Then we could also get either their pick, or the right to swap if too much (2018 pick if we choose not to swap)

Philly is another wild card. I'd want the worse of their pick or LAL pick, Holmes, and Ilyasova for Nicholson and OP.

My only issue with all this is... EG would be the one making the trade.




Well, Denver's GM used to be our assistant GM, so both FO's know each other. Hezonja sucks. I want nothing to do with him. NO has nothing to offer besides their pick. If we were trading Porter, we'd have to get a lotto pick, a young player, and a replacement vet SF. To me, Denver is by far the most attractive. They have to consolidate their assets. Jokic is untouchable, and I like Murray & Harris, but otherwise, everyone else on that roster should be available. They all have positive value.
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XXXI 

Post#1874 » by payitforward » Mon Jan 16, 2017 12:14 am

Meliorus wrote:https://sports.vice.com/en_us/article/will-a-bad-bench-stymie-the-surging-wizards-adam-mares-nba-wraparound

Good read on the Wizards. Some interesting stuff on how Gortat just doesn't fit. Lobs aren't just fun and games. A center who can catch lobs impacts the opponent's defensive schemes.

A ridiculous article! No mention of Sheldon McClellan at all!

...actually, I wonder whether the take on Gortat is accurate. The article describes him as a bad finisher on the pick and roll but doesn't quote any numbers. I've always thought the Wall-Gortat pick and roll was a strength. As to "lobs" -- the word is used once, in passing, in the article.

In the main, as one can tell by reading the URL above, the point of the article is that we have a bad bench.
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XXXI 

Post#1875 » by Meliorus » Mon Jan 16, 2017 12:17 am

payitforward wrote:
Meliorus wrote:https://sports.vice.com/en_us/article/will-a-bad-bench-stymie-the-surging-wizards-adam-mares-nba-wraparound

Good read on the Wizards. Some interesting stuff on how Gortat just doesn't fit. Lobs aren't just fun and games. A center who can catch lobs impacts the opponent's defensive schemes.

A ridiculous article! No mention of Sheldon McClellan at all!

...actually, I wonder whether the take on Gortat is accurate. The article describes him as a bad finisher on the pick and roll but doesn't quote any numbers. I've always thought the Wall-Gortat pick and roll was a strength. As to "lobs" -- the word is used once, in passing, in the article.

In the main, as one can tell by reading the URL above, the point of the article is that we have a bad bench.


Gortat has been a below-average pick and roll finisher this year, way down from his norm. Can't find the stat but read/heard it multiple times.
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XXXI 

Post#1876 » by payitforward » Mon Jan 16, 2017 12:29 am

mhd wrote:...If we were trading Porter, we'd have to get a lotto pick, a young player, and a replacement vet SF. To me, Denver is by far the most attractive. They have to consolidate their assets. Jokic is untouchable, and I like Murray & Harris, but otherwise, everyone else on that roster should be available. They all have positive value.

Denver will have a lottery pick. Barton could be the replacement SF. Who would you want as the young player -- Nurkic?

One thing: if Ernie trades Otto Porter, he's a lock to become a superstar.
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XXXI 

Post#1877 » by deneem4 » Mon Jan 16, 2017 12:36 am

I been saying it for the longest...gortat doesn't fit...
If we had an elite pf he would be perfect but we dont and we probably won't get 1 anytime soon...

Morris isn't great but Gortat doesn't help him at all...
Theory...
Teams with elite pfs..allows they're guys to go 1on1 with Morris with no help assuming he will miss and let they're center focus on rebounds...
Morris has gave alot of elite power forwards buckets like they are reserves...
If we can at the very least get a 3pt shooting center to space the floor maybe morris iso will be more effective...

Otto need a stretch 5 for his off ball play to translate to more shots...
He loves crossing baselines and he gets open down there easily and silently....but Gortat cant move too far away from the rim and keep the defense honest...

Gortat rebounding has been great but we sacrifice alot of offense with him on the floor...it's a reason why we have 2 40% 3pt shooters and 2 35% + 3pt shooters but we have a bad half court offense...gortat single Handley slows our offense ..1 he can't space the floor....2 most importantly he's not a threat around the rim at all...(oops,post, drives)
Pay your beals....or its lights out!!!
Bron, Bosh, Wade is like Mike, Hakeem, barkley...3 top 5 picks from same draft
mike, hakeem and Barkley on the same team!!!!
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XXXI 

Post#1878 » by nate33 » Mon Jan 16, 2017 12:45 am

mhd wrote:Because Porter will get Max offers this off-season (god how wrong was I about him), and Ted will refuse the pay the luxury tax,

There is no chance that Ted okayed the signing of Nicholson, Smith and Mahinmi if it means we'd have to let Porter go due to luxtax concerns. Porter will be resigned. I'm 100% certain. In a pinch, we'll trade away a future 2nd to dump Smith's contract if necessary.
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XXXI 

Post#1879 » by Meliorus » Mon Jan 16, 2017 12:49 am

deneem4 wrote:I been saying it for the longest...gortat doesn't fit...
If we had an elite pf he would be perfect but we dont and we probably won't get 1 anytime soon...

Morris isn't great but Gortat doesn't help him at all...
Theory...
Teams with elite pfs..allows they're guys to go 1on1 with Morris with no help assuming he will miss and let they're center focus on rebounds...
Morris has gave alot of elite power forwards buckets like they are reserves...
If we can at the very least get a 3pt shooting center to space the floor maybe morris iso will be more effective...

Otto need a stretch 5 for his off ball play to translate to more shots...
He loves crossing baselines and he gets open down there easily and silently....but Gortat cant move too far away from the rim and keep the defense honest...

Gortat rebounding has been great but we sacrifice alot of offense with him on the floor...it's a reason why we have 2 40% 3pt shooters and 2 35% + 3pt shooters but we have a bad half court offense...gortat single Handley slows our offense ..1 he can't space the floor....2 most importantly he's not a threat around the rim at all...(oops,post, drives)


Gortat puts up good rebounding numbers, but as a team we are dreadful, 27th in the league. Sometimes I'd rather have Brook Lopez, who spends all his time boxing out and only averages 5 rebounds, whose team is 11th in the league in rebounding.
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Re: Official Trade Thread - Part XXXI 

Post#1880 » by nate33 » Mon Jan 16, 2017 12:50 am

deneem4 wrote:I been saying it for the longest...gortat doesn't fit...
If we had an elite pf he would be perfect but we dont and we probably won't get 1 anytime soon...

Morris isn't great but Gortat doesn't help him at all...
Theory...
Teams with elite pfs..allows they're guys to go 1on1 with Morris with no help assuming he will miss and let they're center focus on rebounds...
Morris has gave alot of elite power forwards buckets like they are reserves...
If we can at the very least get a 3pt shooting center to space the floor maybe morris iso will be more effective...

Otto need a stretch 5 for his off ball play to translate to more shots...
He loves crossing baselines and he gets open down there easily and silently....but Gortat cant move too far away from the rim and keep the defense honest...

Gortat rebounding has been great but we sacrifice alot of offense with him on the floor...it's a reason why we have 2 40% 3pt shooters and 2 35% + 3pt shooters but we have a bad half court offense...gortat single Handley slows our offense ..1 he can't space the floor....2 most importantly he's not a threat around the rim at all...(oops,post, drives)

This is has got to be one of your worst screeds yet.

You don't dump one of our top 4 players and go and find a unique stretch 5 center just to cater to Markieff freaking Morris. Morris isn't a starting quality player, no matter who his teammates are. What he does well is create his own, relatively low percentage shot without help from teammates. His best role would be as a 1st or 2nd option on the second unit. That happened to be his role in his best statistical season in Phoenix.

Also, here's a newsflash, stretch 5's are typically poor defenders. They're usually poor run/jump athletes who carve out a niche by honing their jumper since they're usually liabilities on defense. There are exceptions, but not many. Finding a good defensive center who can also stretch the floor is easier said than done.

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