Official Trade Thread - Part XXXI

[nate33]

I been saying it for the longest...gortat doesn't fit...
If we had an elite pf he would be perfect but we dont and we probably won't get 1 anytime soon...

Morris isn't great but Gortat doesn't help him at all...
Theory...
Teams with elite pfs..allows they're guys to go 1on1 with Morris with no help assuming he will miss and let they're center focus on rebounds...
Morris has gave alot of elite power forwards buckets like they are reserves...
If we can at the very least get a 3pt shooting center to space the floor maybe morris iso will be more effective...

Otto need a stretch 5 for his off ball play to translate to more shots...
He loves crossing baselines and he gets open down there easily and silently....but Gortat cant move too far away from the rim and keep the defense honest...

Gortat rebounding has been great but we sacrifice alot of offense with him on the floor...it's a reason why we have 2 40% 3pt shooters and 2 35% + 3pt shooters but we have a bad half court offense...gortat single Handley slows our offense ..1 he can't space the floor....2 most importantly he's not a threat around the rim at all...(oops,post, drives)

Gortat puts up good rebounding numbers, but as a team we are dreadful, 27th in the league. Sometimes I'd rather have Brook Lopez, who spends all his time boxing out and only averages 5 rebounds, whose team is 11th in the league in rebounding.

Your numbers are either wrong or they're looking at totals rather than on a per possession basis.

The Wizards rank 15th in defensive rebounding percentage. They rank 12th in offensive rebounding percentage. We're a slightly above average rebounding team.

[mhd]

Because Porter will get Max offers this off-season (god how wrong was I about him), and Ted will refuse the pay the luxury tax, what about this deal:

Porter+Nicholson+Burke for Nurkic+Wilson Chandler+Jameer Nelson+Denver's 2017 1st?

We still make the playoffs with that team, Nelson provides a huge upgrade at backup PG, and Nurkic gives us a young big we lack. We dump Nicholson, and we could look to trade Gortat in the off-season for wing help assuming Mahinmi comes back from injury.

That Denver pick could land us a much needed combo guard like Malik Monk, or even Josh Jackson. We could maybe get TJ Leaf or Justin Patton with our other 1st round pick.

mhd, Trading Otto is an interesting proposition that not many here want to admit to.
Why? Trading Wall starts a rebuild and trading Beal wouldnt bring enough back with his contract. But Otto is playing at an unbelievable level and his value is at an all time high.

Two other teams that have high picks, need a wing, and need to improve fast are Orlando and New Orleans.
NOP could send their 1st and Evans for OP and Nicholson.
Orlando could send Aaron Gordon and Hezonja for OP and Nicholson. Then we could also get either their pick, or the right to swap if too much (2018 pick if we choose not to swap)

Philly is another wild card. I'd want the worse of their pick or LAL pick, Holmes, and Ilyasova for Nicholson and OP.

My only issue with all this is... EG would be the one making the trade.

Philly is a real interesting candidate IMO. I'd offer Porter+Nicholson for Henderson (expiries (team option))+Okafor+Holmes+better of their 1st/LAL 1st. Philly gets the perfect compliment to Embiid & Simmons, while retaining a high lotto pick to take the best PG available.

We avoid the tax, take a flier on Okafor, get a young nice looking prospect big in Holmes, and get a likely top 5 pick to perhaps take Josh Jackson with.

[montestewart]

Because Porter will get Max offers this off-season (god how wrong was I about him), and Ted will refuse the pay the luxury tax, what about this deal:

Porter+Nicholson+Burke for Nurkic+Wilson Chandler+Jameer Nelson+Denver's 2017 1st?

We still make the playoffs with that team, Nelson provides a huge upgrade at backup PG, and Nurkic gives us a young big we lack. We dump Nicholson, and we could look to trade Gortat in the off-season for wing help assuming Mahinmi comes back from injury.

That Denver pick could land us a much needed combo guard like Malik Monk, or even Josh Jackson. We could maybe get TJ Leaf or Justin Patton with our other 1st round pick.

mhd, Trading Otto is an interesting proposition that not many here want to admit to.
Why? Trading Wall starts a rebuild and trading Beal wouldnt bring enough back with his contract. But Otto is playing at an unbelievable level and his value is at an all time high.

Two other teams that have high picks, need a wing, and need to improve fast are Orlando and New Orleans.
NOP could send their 1st and Evans for OP and Nicholson.
Orlando could send Aaron Gordon and Hezonja for OP and Nicholson. Then we could also get either their pick, or the right to swap if too much (2018 pick if we choose not to swap)

Philly is another wild card. I'd want the worse of their pick or LAL pick, Holmes, and Ilyasova for Nicholson and OP.

My only issue with all this is... EG would be the one making the trade.

Philly is a real interesting candidate IMO. I'd offer Porter+Nicholson for Henderson (expiries (team option))+Okafor+Holmes+better of their 1st/LAL 1st. Philly gets the perfect compliment to Embiid & Simmons, while retaining a high lotto pick to take the best PG available.

We avoid the tax, take a flier on Okafor, get a young nice looking prospect big in Holmes, and get a likely top 5 pick to perhaps take Josh Jackson with.

Switch Noel for Okafor, now it's Porter and a nice salary dump for Noel, high lottery pick, and Holmes. Worth considering, but I think I'd pass because Porter is (at least right now) the best player in the trade, and I don't have great confidence in EG maximizing the assets he gets in return. (What if Noel signs a max offer sheet and the Wizards don't match and EG manages to find this draft's Vesely? Yikes!) Bird in the hand, etc. Plus, it's hard for me to see Terd n Ernie making bold moves like this, although that kind of thinking is really needed if they're to save this ship.

[skywalker33]

Because Porter will get Max offers this off-season (god how wrong was I about him), and Ted will refuse the pay the luxury tax, what about this deal:

Porter+Nicholson+Burke for Nurkic+Wilson Chandler+Jameer Nelson+Denver's 2017 1st?

We still make the playoffs with that team, Nelson provides a huge upgrade at backup PG, and Nurkic gives us a young big we lack. We dump Nicholson, and we could look to trade Gortat in the off-season for wing help assuming Mahinmi comes back from injury.

That Denver pick could land us a much needed combo guard like Malik Monk, or even Josh Jackson. We could maybe get TJ Leaf or Justin Patton with our other 1st round pick.

Couple of thoughts from a Denver perspective:

If your owner won't pay the Max for Porter, Denver would be negotiating from a position of strength and wouldn't offer a lottery pick

Denver has been very proficient as of late with the draft selections. This is one of the best drafts in the last decade, it doesn't make sense to abandon that. I could see the MEM pick or perhaps a future pick, but not OUR 1st, wishful thinking.

Right now, Chandler is a player that can help WAS with their playoff hunt. he provides some veteran leadership that could be valued in the Eastern Conference playoffs. Porter is 6 years younger and is starting to develop into the player many expected considering where he was drafted. If he's expected top leave in free agency, the Nuggets appear to be giving up a premium for a possible 3-mo rental. Most teams know this too.

Nicholson is a free agent mistakes the Nuggets have no need to take on, his $26M contract is a negative in this deal. Burke would be cheaper than Nelson, but Nelson is outplaying Burke this year so I'd give that a wash.

I'd counter this offer with Chandler + Nelson + 2017 MEM 1st & 2nd for Porter + Nicholson + WAS 2017 1st

Can't see adding Nurkic when Porter is a free agent without higher level compensation. As I said, Denver perspective.

[deneem4]

I been saying it for the longest...gortat doesn't fit...
If we had an elite pf he would be perfect but we dont and we probably won't get 1 anytime soon...

Morris isn't great but Gortat doesn't help him at all...
Theory...
Teams with elite pfs..allows they're guys to go 1on1 with Morris with no help assuming he will miss and let they're center focus on rebounds...
Morris has gave alot of elite power forwards buckets like they are reserves...
If we can at the very least get a 3pt shooting center to space the floor maybe morris iso will be more effective...

Otto need a stretch 5 for his off ball play to translate to more shots...
He loves crossing baselines and he gets open down there easily and silently....but Gortat cant move too far away from the rim and keep the defense honest...

Gortat rebounding has been great but we sacrifice alot of offense with him on the floor...it's a reason why we have 2 40% 3pt shooters and 2 35% + 3pt shooters but we have a bad half court offense...gortat single Handley slows our offense ..1 he can't space the floor....2 most importantly he's not a threat around the rim at all...(oops,post, drives)

This is has got to be one of your worst screeds yet.

You don't dump one of our top 4 players and go and find a unique stretch 5 center just to cater to Markieff freaking Morris. Morris isn't a starting quality player, no matter who his teammates are. What he does well is create his own, relatively low percentage shot without help from teammates. His best role would be as a 1st or 2nd option on the second unit. That happened to be his role in his best statistical season in Phoenix.

Also, here's a newsflash, stretch 5's are typically poor defenders. They're usually poor run/jump athletes who carve out a niche by honing their jumper since they're usually liabilities on defense. There are exceptions, but not many. Finding a good defensive center who can also stretch the floor is easier said than done.

Its honestly not about morris...
Don't pick at 1 part of the post...
I also mention otto our most effective scorer and how he can get more opportunities if gortat was out...
Gortat isn't a good defensive center anymore...point blank period...
He's a great rebounder but not a game changing rebounder..
Good pick and roll big but not a threat in the paint consistently....

If there's any players that's a niche it's Gortat
Finding a stretch 5 would impact wall the most so on and so on...but you already know that...having a big that can shoot 3s and get out the paint would have wall scoring easily just by less defenders in the paint when he attack...

Gortat is mediocre vs most bigs and down right bad vs the good one...
If he can't bring some type of skill night and night offensively or defensively why not trade him for a pure shooting big...atleast we would have an offensive advantage...

Hawes
Leonard
Kanter

3 examples of bigs il trade Gortat for in a second...

[gambitx777]

Because Porter will get Max offers this off-season (god how wrong was I about him), and Ted will refuse the pay the luxury tax, what about this deal:

Porter+Nicholson+Burke for Nurkic+Wilson Chandler+Jameer Nelson+Denver's 2017 1st?

We still make the playoffs with that team, Nelson provides a huge upgrade at backup PG, and Nurkic gives us a young big we lack. We dump Nicholson, and we could look to trade Gortat in the off-season for wing help assuming Mahinmi comes back from injury.

That Denver pick could land us a much needed combo guard like Malik Monk, or even Josh Jackson. We could maybe get TJ Leaf or Justin Patton with our other 1st round pick.

Couple of thoughts from a Denver perspective:

If your owner won't pay the Max for Porter, Denver would be negotiating from a position of strength and wouldn't offer a lottery pick

Denver has been very proficient as of late with the draft selections. This is one of the best drafts in the last decade, it doesn't make sense to abandon that. I could see the MEM pick or perhaps a future pick, but not OUR 1st, wishful thinking.

Right now, Chandler is a player that can help WAS with their playoff hunt. he provides some veteran leadership that could be valued in the Eastern Conference playoffs. Porter is 6 years younger and is starting to develop into the player many expected considering where he was drafted. If he's expected top leave in free agency, the Nuggets appear to be giving up a premium for a possible 3-mo rental. Most teams know this too.

Nicholson is a free agent mistakes the Nuggets have no need to take on, his $26M contract is a negative in this deal. Burke would be cheaper than Nelson, but Nelson is outplaying Burke this year so I'd give that a wash.

I'd counter this offer with Chandler + Nelson + 2017 MEM 1st & 2nd for Porter + Nicholson + WAS 2017 1st

Can't see adding Nurkic when Porter is a free agent without higher level compensation. As I said, Denver perspective.

Nurkic is a nice player but he is a back up center at this point. a nice one but a back up. And he is going to need to get paid big the year after next as well. Chadler is good but injury prone, Nelson has no serious value as a 35 year old back up guard. He is just that a good vet back up. Ive said this before, none of that is worth Porter and EG is not trading for a pick, and he is not moving orter anyway, he does not trad players that he has had success with in the draft, he over pays them and keeps them at all coast.
A trade for Chandler, nelson and Nurkic, would be worth either A first unprotected and 2 seconds, Mahnmi and burke or a first unprotected 2 seconds nicholson, smith and burke.
That is a fair deal. Porter is not on the table nor will he be. Ted made up his mind last summer weather he was going to pay porter or not or we would not have signed the signings we did this summer. We are a few bench moves away from making noise in the east, there is no reason to trade porter for anything.

[gambitx777]

I get pissy with all this over thinking on gortat, stop bitching and look at his numbers, just his raw numbers. Stop over thinking the advanced metrics and think about it. what center in the league at his price tag is really that much better than him. What would we really trade him for that would make us that much better? He helps the team and he is a solid center. Yes I do think he would be better off the bench behind a better center but What are we doing to do to get one of those? Not much.

[dangermouse]

I wish there was a way to land Taj.

He's expiring and there's nothing we could really offer straight up that Bulls would be interested in. I would certainly not send out a first. And of course we wont have cash to sign him.

Could help with our rebounding issues.

[stevemcqueen1]

I'd counter this offer with Chandler + Nelson + 2017 MEM 1st & 2nd for Porter + Nicholson + WAS 2017 1st

And we would counter by laughing in your face and hanging up the phone. And Porter's a pending RFA, not a rental. We're not trading Porter. Ownership will pay him. These are just two posters, one of whom was the most outspoken Porter hater on the board from the day we picked him, exploring a pipe dream.

[nate33]

Hawes
Leonard
Kanter

3 examples of bigs il trade Gortat for in a second...

Then thank God you are not the GM. Those guys would be disasters as defensive anchors. Kanter is a well known defensive sieve and ranks 65th out of 67 centers in DRPM. His defense is so bad that he can't manage to start despite being among the league leaders in PER and WS/48. Think about that.

Leonard and Hawes are so bad defensively that ESPN can't even bring themselves to classify them as centers. But their DRPM would rank them 52nd and 53rd out of 69 centers in DRPM. And have you looked at their numbers? Leonard is posting a PER of 7.8, a TS% of .483, and a WS/48 of .015. Hawes is posting a PER of 15 and a WS/48 of .093, but has only managed to steal 480 minutes of playing time this entire season on a .500 team with no true center.

[nate33]

Philly is a real interesting candidate IMO. I'd offer Porter+Nicholson for Henderson (expiries (team option))+Okafor+Holmes+better of their 1st/LAL 1st. Philly gets the perfect compliment to Embiid & Simmons, while retaining a high lotto pick to take the best PG available.

We avoid the tax, take a flier on Okafor, get a young nice looking prospect big in Holmes, and get a likely top 5 pick to perhaps take Josh Jackson with.

Switch Noel for Okafor, now it's Porter and a nice salary dump for Noel, high lottery pick, and Holmes. Worth considering, but I think I'd pass because Porter is (at least right now) the best player in the trade, and I don't have great confidence in EG maximizing the assets he gets in return. (What if Noel signs a max offer sheet and the Wizards don't match and EG manages to find this draft's Vesely? Yikes!) Bird in the hand, etc. Plus, it's hard for me to see Terd n Ernie making bold moves like this, although that kind of thinking is really needed if they're to save this ship.

To those proposing trading Porter, please go look at his per 100 possession numbers on basketball reference. Notice the incredibly consistent improvement in every category, every year, on a per possession basis. He just keeps getting better... at everything, and has shown no signs of slowing down. I don't know when he will reach a plateau, but I have no reason to believe he has reached it already.

Even if we max Porter (which is probably an overpay at the moment), there's a real possibility that he will grow into a max level player.

[stevemcqueen1]

Yeah Gortat is better than those guys, except for Kanter. But as you say, Kanter's defense would cause us issues.

I don't get why Kanter is such a poor defender. He is very strong and athletic. And usually Euros have a good understanding of defense and fundamentals. He would have been better off staying in Europe instead of coming over and trying to play college ball and missing that year.

[Meliorus]

Yeah Gortat is better than those guys, except for Kanter. But as you say, Kanter's defense would cause us issues.

I don't get why Kanter is such a poor defender. He is very strong and athletic. And usually Euros have a good understanding of defense and fundamentals. He would have been better off staying in Europe instead of coming over and trying to play college ball and missing that year.

Some players just don't have defensive instincts. Some guys go their entire careers being poor defenders. So I wouldn't count on Okafor or Kanter getting better because they're quick or athletic.

[Meliorus]

Why do all these trades revolve around us getting trash center defender? Do you guys not realize we are already trash on defense? Okafor, Nurkic, Kanter, Leonard, Hawes, none of those are even close to being plus defenders. Just stand pat and wait until the draft.

[Illmatic12]

Yeah even though many of us have tossed around Otto trades, it does sound like the organization values him enough to keep him

“We had conversations but we want Otto here long-term,” Grunfeld told CSNmidatlantic.com on Wednesday, before the regular-season home opener with the Toronto Raptors. “We like Otto. We really like what he brings to the table. He’s a really good player that meshes well with John (Wall) and Brad (Beal) who like to have the ball in their hands. Otto cuts and spots up and he does a lot of little things. He makes a lot of winning plays that don’t show up in the boxscore. Our intention is in the offeseason is to have Otto signed and have him here long-term.”

[Illmatic12]

Why do all these trades revolve around us getting trash center defender? Do you guys not realize we are already trash on defense? Okafor, Nurkic, Kanter, Leonard, Hawes, none of those are even close to being plus defenders. Just stand pat and wait until the draft.

Agreed about the others, Okafor is awful. But Nurkic imo has strong defensive potential. He could become a Steven Adams-type player if developed properly (Denver can't really focus on his development right now given the breakout play of Nurkic)

I would take a long, hard look at something Porter for Nurkic + Chandler.. then flip Gortat for a combo guard. Longterm:

Wall/Sato
Beal/combo guard/McClellan
Chandler/Oubre
Morris/Chandler/Smith
Mahinmi/Nurkic/Smith

[payitforward]

Philly is a real interesting candidate IMO. I'd offer Porter+Nicholson for Henderson (expiries (team option))+Okafor+Holmes+better of their 1st/LAL 1st. Philly gets the perfect compliment to Embiid & Simmons, while retaining a high lotto pick to take the best PG available.

We avoid the tax, take a flier on Okafor, get a young nice looking prospect big in Holmes, and get a likely top 5 pick to perhaps take Josh Jackson with.

Switch Noel for Okafor, now it's Porter and a nice salary dump for Noel, high lottery pick, and Holmes. Worth considering, but I think I'd pass because Porter is (at least right now) the best player in the trade, and I don't have great confidence in EG maximizing the assets he gets in return. (What if Noel signs a max offer sheet and the Wizards don't match and EG manages to find this draft's Vesely? Yikes!) Bird in the hand, etc. Plus, it's hard for me to see Terd n Ernie making bold moves like this, although that kind of thinking is really needed if they're to save this ship.

To those proposing trading Porter, please go look at his per 100 possession numbers on basketball reference. Notice the incredibly consistent improvement in every category, every year, on a per possession basis. He just keeps getting better... at everything, and has shown no signs of slowing down. I don't know when he will reach a plateau, but I have no reason to believe he has reached it already.

Even if we max Porter (which is probably an overpay at the moment), there's a real possibility that he will grow into a max level player.

Yep. All these ideas for trading Porter are ludicrous. He's literally the last player on the Wizards I'd trade.

Add to that the repeated suggestion to trade away what is likely a lottery pick (hence could conceivably turn out to be one of the top 3 picks) in an incredibly strong draft, and you've got a matched set of recipes for disaster.

I guess you could add the idea of Hawes for Gortat, and it'd be a perfect storm!

[payitforward]

Why do all these trades revolve around us getting trash center defender? Do you guys not realize we are already trash on defense? Okafor, Nurkic, Kanter, Leonard, Hawes, none of those are even close to being plus defenders. Just stand pat and wait until the draft.

Bingo. And, anyway, what would we be gaining this year from these goofy trade ideas? If not "this year," then lets get that talented kid on a rookie contract in late June, please.

[Meliorus]

I was really high on Wilson Chandler earlier in the season, but never in a million years did I expect trade ideas involving Porter/our draft pick. Veteran leadership, lmao the dude has never been to the playoffs. Stay away from Denver, their entire team ranges from slightly challenged defensively to very challenged defensively.

Here's a guy whose actually playing good defense and 6th among centers in RPM. Greg Monroe.

[nate33]

Why do all these trades revolve around us getting trash center defender? Do you guys not realize we are already trash on defense? Okafor, Nurkic, Kanter, Leonard, Hawes, none of those are even close to being plus defenders. Just stand pat and wait until the draft.

Agreed about the others, Okafor is awful. But Nurkic imo has strong defensive potential. He could become a Steven Adams-type player if developed properly (Denver can't really focus on his development right now given the breakout play of Nurkic)

I would take a long, hard look at something Porter for Nurkic + Chandler.. then flip Gortat for a combo guard. Longterm:

Wall/Sato
Beal/combo guard/McClellan
Chandler/Oubre
Morris/Chandler/Smith
Mahinmi/Nurkic/Smith

I have interest in Nurkic in that he's a young player with talent and a bit of meanness who plays for a team who is unlikely to retain him because of Jokic. So he's a potential target who is conceivably available. But I absolutely would not involve Porter in the trade to get him. I might trade our pick plus filler, though we'd need a strategy to dump either Gortat or Mahinmi by the time Nurkic is up for an extension.