2016-2017 College Basketball / '17 NBA Draft Thread

[eagereyez]

@Slizeezyc, I'm saying very specifically that Fultz has not played well enough to pass any of these other Gs.

Three years ago, Marcus Smart was clearly the best guard prospect in the draft.
Two years ago, D'Angelo Russell was clearly the best guard prospect in the draft.
Last year, Kris Dunn was clearly the best guard prospect in the draft.

From an age-to-excellence and performance perspective, how can anyone say Markelle Fultz has been better than (let alone well ahead of the pack of) Lonzo Ball, Malik Monk or De'Aaron Fox? From a skillset perspective, how can anyone say Markelle Fultz is clearly ahead of Dennis Smith Jr.?

To me, Markelle Fultz is very much within the pack and not pulling ahead of any of these guys. And in terms of projecting skillsets, Dennis Smith ticks every box Fultz does with even better physical ability and grit.

I mean Fultz is the youngest of them, and what he's done from a statistical level as a whole is better than any of them. He's scoring 20+ a game while having 5 assists, 5 boards, shooting above 40% from deep and 50% from two on a high usage. Nobody else has that, Freshman or otherwise. Take it for what it is and pick it apart if you want, but it is a thing.

You can say Ball maybe has the most elite skill at one thing, Smith has best athleticism etc., but it's a bit unfair to say Fultz isn't doing "anything" to separate himself.

Also, as for those other drafts, I mean:

Fultz>Smart/Dunn/Russell. And to be original point, Ball/Smith>Smart/Russell/Dunn

And beyond that,

Exum was the only competition for Smart. Mudiay was the only one around Russell. And Murray/Hield were the only ones around Dunn. None of those "secondary" guys equate to a Ball/Smith in terms of competition. Which is sort of my point in saying, this is just a really good guard class, and it makes it hard to separate further.

Karl-Anthony Towns was a prospect who did everything well, but wasn't elite at one aspect like Jahlil Okafor. You look at the complete package of a prospect and try to imagine how it translates in the NBA. Dribble penetration is my biggest question mark with Markelle Fultz.

Did you mean to say with Ball? Fultz is exceptionally good at penetrating in the half-court.

[Kolkmania]

I mean Fultz is the youngest of them, and what he's done from a statistical level as a whole is better than any of them. He's scoring 20+ a game while having 5 assists, 5 boards, shooting above 40% from deep and 50% from two on a high usage. Nobody else has that, Freshman or otherwise. Take it for what it is and pick it apart if you want, but it is a thing.

You can say Ball maybe has the most elite skill at one thing, Smith has best athleticism etc., but it's a bit unfair to say Fultz isn't doing "anything" to separate himself.

Also, as for those other drafts, I mean:

Fultz>Smart/Dunn/Russell. And to be original point, Ball/Smith>Smart/Russell/Dunn

And beyond that,

Exum was the only competition for Smart. Mudiay was the only one around Russell. And Murray/Hield were the only ones around Dunn. None of those "secondary" guys equate to a Ball/Smith in terms of competition. Which is sort of my point in saying, this is just a really good guard class, and it makes it hard to separate further.

Karl-Anthony Towns was a prospect who did everything well, but wasn't elite at one aspect like Jahlil Okafor. You look at the complete package of a prospect and try to imagine how it translates in the NBA. Dribble penetration is my biggest question mark with Markelle Fultz.

Did you mean to say with Ball? Fultz is exceptionally good at penetrating in the half-court.

No, Markelle Fultz. That's the point I was trying to make. He's quick enough to get to the rim in college, but is he able to blow by NBA defenders? I'm not sold yet.

[eagereyez]

Karl-Anthony Towns was a prospect who did everything well, but wasn't elite at one aspect like Jahlil Okafor. You look at the complete package of a prospect and try to imagine how it translates in the NBA. Dribble penetration is my biggest question mark with Markelle Fultz.

Did you mean to say with Ball? Fultz is exceptionally good at penetrating in the half-court.

No, Markelle Fultz. That's the point I was trying to make. He's quick enough to get to the rim in college, but is he able to blow by NBA defenders? I'm not sold yet.

Oh. Yeah, I don't know. Skill-based players are a bit difficult to judge. It would be easier to just say "he's super fast, that'll translate to the NBA right away."

[Slizeezyc]

Karl-Anthony Towns was a prospect who did everything well, but wasn't elite at one aspect like Jahlil Okafor. You look at the complete package of a prospect and try to imagine how it translates in the NBA. Dribble penetration is my biggest question mark with Markelle Fultz.

Did you mean to say with Ball? Fultz is exceptionally good at penetrating in the half-court.

No, Markelle Fultz. That's the point I was trying to make. He's quick enough to get to the rim in college, but is he able to blow by NBA defenders? I'm not sold yet.

So what about with Ball who has shown far less in this regard than Fultz?

[JojoSlimbiid]

Yeah I don't really understand that at all. Ball outside of a transition situation can barely penetrate the lane with a pick and certainly can't without one. Fultz on the other hand has shown plenty of ability off the bounce to get to the cup without a pick and has shown wizardry with regards to using the PNR for a college player.

Dribble penetration is least among my concerns with Fultz. I'm more concerned about his competitiveness defensively and at times getting the feeling that he's floating out there(not like Andrew Wiggins level of floating but more of a just maybe too relaxed vibe from him).

[eagereyez]

I need to see what the spacing is like when Simmons and Embiid are playing together. It's possible that the paint becomes too crowded due to those two, so the benefit of having a PG who's capable of driving to and finishing at the rim is diminished to a large extent. In that case it might be better to have someone who is already comfortable with 60% of their FGA coming from 3.

[Kolkmania]

Did you mean to say with Ball? Fultz is exceptionally good at penetrating in the half-court.

No, Markelle Fultz. That's the point I was trying to make. He's quick enough to get to the rim in college, but is he able to blow by NBA defenders? I'm not sold yet.

So what about with Ball who has shown far less in this regard than Fultz?

Oh, I'm quite confident that Ball will struggle mightily with creating his own shot (besides that stepback to his left) in the NBA. He'll flourish when he has shotcreators and sharpshooters surrounding him, to me he's a very good complementary piece. I'm not as high on him as the general consensus around here.

[Unbreakable99]

I have not watched any Michigan St games. I noticed Miles Bridges scored 24 points yesterday. Anyone who has seen him where would you rank him in this class. What's his NBA comparison? I really know nothing about him.

[LloydFree]

Karl-Anthony Towns was a prospect who did everything well, but wasn't elite at one aspect like Jahlil Okafor. You look at the complete package of a prospect and try to imagine how it translates in the NBA. Dribble penetration is my biggest question mark with Markelle Fultz.

Did you mean to say with Ball? Fultz is exceptionally good at penetrating in the half-court.

No, Markelle Fultz. That's the point I was trying to make. He's quick enough to get to the rim in college, but is he able to blow by NBA defenders? I'm not sold yet.

Exactly the issue that I am having with Fultz. Though he has a good handle, he looks slow to my eye and it's hard to judge if he has the ability to get where he wants against NBA athletes. It's not clear to me that the quickness is there to be a star . Fultz has the higher upside, and has more tools, but right now I have more confidence that Malik Monk will be able to score at the NBA level. Monk is quick enough to create space to get shots up without doing a lot of dribbling.

[SelfishPlayer]

I need to see what the spacing is like when Simmons and Embiid are playing together. It's possible that the paint becomes too crowded due to those two, so the benefit of having a PG who's capable of driving to and finishing at the rim is diminished to a large extent. In that case it might be better to have someone who is already comfortable with 60% of their FGA coming from 3.

Not true. Simmons and Embiid can drive to the basket. Embiid is clearly a good shooter from every spot on the floor. Simmons will be at full speed driving down hill if a defender gives him too much space. Spacing is not a thing when your center and power forward can do the things that Embiid and Simmons can. Bottomline, Embiid and Simmons can stand behind the 3 point line out of the way as good as any other NBA player. If a defender sags off of Simmons too much while the PG is driving, there will be hell to pay. Simmons with a full head of steam will cause serious problems for the opposition.

[seventy6ers]

The player that I think would fit best with our team would have to be Malik Monk. The defenders can't come off of him or he has an open shot. He can create his own shot and is great in transition. He has great handles and there aren't many players that run around like him in the half court set and catch and shoot. His defense is decent. He might be only 6'3, but his skills totally outweigh his supposed "3 inch size disadvantage" (which I don't think is that big of a deal anyway). I just can't see a more obvious pick for the Sixers than him.

[Kobblehead]

Dennis Smith Jr. is flying up my board. Last night's performance was really impressive.

31 points (4-8 from three, 7-10 from free throw line), 8 rebounds, 6 assists, 2 steals and 2 blocks.

His defensive potential is definitely there. He's pretty feisty on that end.

[sixers hoops]

If the scenario presented itself, would anyone hypothetically trade the 5 and 6 picks to get number 1?

I was focused on getting the perfect piece to pair with Embiid and Simmons. At this point we need that quality piece. However, many are seeing parity among the top 7 or so. Choosing two players after the top four are off the board may not be such a bad position. However, if a Fultz, Smith, Jackson, or Ball starts to separate we may prefer the one pick. I could see a team like Miami or Dallas being interested in moving for some quanity if they don't see much difference in the top 7 or so.

[Kobblehead]

It depends on what kind of separation occurs. If a couple of guys just up their game and the rest of them continue to play at the relatively high level of play they're currently at, that probably wouldn't urge me to move up. However, if a chunk of guys fall off a bit and only a couple remain at a high level, that would probably force my hand.

[PhilasFinest]

I have not watched any Michigan St games. I noticed Miles Bridges scored 24 points yesterday. Anyone who has seen him where would you rank him in this class. What's his NBA comparison? I really know nothing about him.

I like him, as he seems to have a pretty well rounded game. My main concern with him is position in the NBA.
He plays almost like a combo forward/tweener. He is strong as an ox, and a explosuve,powerful finisher around the basket with a high motor. He can pass the ball a bit and has a pretty solid, streaky jumper that extends to the 3 point line (shooting 41% from 3 on 4 att) which is a big improvement for him. He rebounds well and defends. Needs to improve his handle and overall perimeter skill set.

He last measured at 6'6" with a 6'8.75" wingspan. If he could play on the perimeter exclusively as a wing, then I think his stock could go up and could be someone you may be interested in if your picking in the 8-15 range. IMO, its totally about him improving his perimeter skills. I love the fact that he is showing growth in areas like shooting from the perimeter, and the fact that he is playing for Izzo at MSU doesn't hurt either. Kid knows how to play basketball.

[LloydFree]

If the scenario presented itself, would anyone hypothetically trade the 5 and 6 picks to get number 1?

I was focused on getting the perfect piece to pair with Embiid and Simmons. At this point we need that quality piece. However, many are seeing parity among the top 7 or so. Choosing two players after the top four are off the board may not be such a bad position. However, if a Fultz, Smith, Jackson, or Ball starts to separate we may prefer the one pick. I could see a team like Miami or Dallas being interested in moving for some quanity if they don't see much difference in the top 7 or so.

At #5, in your scenario Monk and Isaac would still be on the board, so unless there is someone I'm absolutely in love with, I probably wouldn't do it.

The 76ers would probably consider it, because I doubt they want to add two more Freshman rookies to the roster. If there is a guy they definitely like more than the others, I could envision them consolidating the picks

[Unbreakable99]

I have not watched any Michigan St games. I noticed Miles Bridges scored 24 points yesterday. Anyone who has seen him where would you rank him in this class. What's his NBA comparison? I really know nothing about him.

I like him, as he seems to have a pretty well rounded game. My main concern with him is position in the NBA.
He plays almost like a combo forward/tweener. He is strong as an ox, and a explosuve,powerful finisher around the basket with a high motor. He can pass the ball a bit and has a pretty solid, streaky jumper that extends to the 3 point line (shooting 41% from 3 on 4 att) which is a big improvement for him. He rebounds well and defends. Needs to improve his handle and overall perimeter skill set.

He last measured at 6'6" with a 6'8.75" wingspan. If he could play on the perimeter exclusively as a wing, then I think his stock could go up and could be someone you may be interested in if your picking in the 8-15 range. IMO, its totally about him improving his perimeter skills. I love the fact that he is showing growth in areas like shooting from the perimeter, and the fact that he is playing for Izzo at MSU doesn't hurt either. Kid knows how to play basketball.

Thanks.

[sixers hoops]

If the scenario presented itself, would anyone hypothetically trade the 5 and 6 picks to get number 1?

I was focused on getting the perfect piece to pair with Embiid and Simmons. At this point we need that quality piece. However, many are seeing parity among the top 7 or so. Choosing two players after the top four are off the board may not be such a bad position. However, if a Fultz, Smith, Jackson, or Ball starts to separate we may prefer the one pick. I could see a team like Miami or Dallas being interested in moving for some quanity if they don't see much difference in the top 7 or so.

At #5, in your scenario Monk and Isaac would still be on the board, so unless there is someone I'm absolutely in love with, I probably wouldn't do it.

The 76ers would probably consider it, because I doubt they want to add two more Freshman rookies to the roster. If there is a guy they definitely like more than the others, I could envision them consolidating the picks

Yeah. From what I have been reading, Fultz was pulling away as the guy. However, right now, from what I read in this thread, there is no consensus #1 among Sixers fans. The idea of Monk and Isaac, or possibly a Fultz, Smith, Jackson, or Ball without two picks seems like not getting a top 3 shouldn't cause a huge panic. I imagine us and the Lakers both finish bottom 7.

[cksdayoff]

I'd be happy to get Frank and Isaac. Monk is gonna be a good scorer, I'm pretty sure of it but he could be a player who comes off the bench a couple of years down the road because of his size and turnstile defense.

[Kobblehead]

Speaking of Michigan State, how is Nick Ward not getting lottery love?

Dude is a freshman that dominates the glass and blocks shots and has scoring ability.