Trade Thread 2017: Not Once, Not twice, But Thrice!

Post #1061 » by **Darth Celtic** » Tue Jan 17, 2017 5:39 am

That moment when you realize Allen Crabbe makes more per year than Paul George.

Looking at big contracts we might be saving our money for in 2017 via trade instead of free agent signings.

I don't see any worth the Brk picks, but many that are worth secondary assets.

Curmudgeon · Post #1062 » by **Curmudgeon** » Tue Jan 17, 2017 6:15 am

Strange DNP-CD for Rozier after he played so well the other night.

reload141 · Post #1063 » by **reload141** » Tue Jan 17, 2017 6:26 am

Curmudgeon wrote:Strange DNP-CD for Rozier after he played so well the other night.

Noel please.

Andrew McCeltic · Post #1064 » by **Andrew McCeltic** » Tue Jan 17, 2017 11:19 am

Noel or Okafor for Rozier would be great. Rozier/Zeller/Jerebko for an expiring player we might want to re-sign (Gay, Bogut, Serge) would make sense.

Haven't figured out a way to get Nerlens and keep our max cap space - Rozier, Mickey, Yabu, Zizic doesn't do much - would have to move Bradley and probably Crowder to keep a spot warm for Hayward. Or you trade for Rudy Gay and then bank you can send him to Utah in a sign and trade.

FlatearthZorro · Post #1065 » by **FlatearthZorro** » Tue Jan 17, 2017 11:31 am

reload141 wrote:
Curmudgeon wrote:Strange DNP-CD for Rozier after he played so well the other night.

Noel please.

Yes, pls. Although I'd do Smart, cause of the contract situation.

Andrew McCeltic · Post #1066 » by **Andrew McCeltic** » Tue Jan 17, 2017 11:33 am

That might be the best bet - get Noel, trade Jerebko/Zeller for Gay. You can still think about Bradley/Crowder deals for Lavine, Gordon, Serge.. But

IT/Smart
Bradley/Green
Crowder/Gay/Young
Horford/Olynyk
Amir/Noel

With BKN 17, is a nice way to play out the season. I'd actually just keep everyone and go over the cap (we did that with Bass, Green one year we had "max cap space") - keep Gay, Amir on short deals, try to get Noel, Smart and KO on bargain deals, add another blue-chip young player in the draft.

Gay's scoring and Noel's defense and average rebounding make us a legit top team, with Toronto, San Antonio, LA. Cleveland and Golden State are still the favorites - but luck or inspired play could get us a ring.

And we balance short-term improvement and long-term flexibility. We're probably spending the cap money on Noel and Gay anyway - if Gordon Hayward really wants to come here (I think he stays in Utah, now that they're winning and can pay him, or walks someplace with a warmer sales pitch, Miami or LA), we can send them Gay or Crowder, or create cap room dealing Avery or Jae).

Andrew McCeltic · Post #1067 » by **Andrew McCeltic** » Tue Jan 17, 2017 11:37 am

Or get Okafor, bank on his scoring and his continued improvement, and keep the max cap room. Gotta think it's as much for draft night trades as free agency - you absorb Butler and/or Cousins outright for a BKN pick.

But we can still do that, the first way - if Butler is available, you either send out Bradley or you agree in principle and then waive rights to Gay and/or Noel a few days later to complete the deal. Likewise Cousins.

ConstableGeneva · Post #1068 » by **ConstableGeneva** » Tue Jan 17, 2017 11:41 am

Andrew McCeltic wrote:That might be the best bet - get Noel, trade Jerebko/Zeller for Gay. You can still think about Bradley/Crowder deals for Lavine, Gordon, Serge.. But

IT/Smart
Bradley/Green
Crowder/Gay/Young
Horford/Olynyk
Amir/Noel

With BKN 17, is a nice way to play out the season. I'd actually just keep everyone and go over the cap (we did that with Bass, Green one year we had "max cap space") - keep Gay, Amir on short deals, try to get Noel, Smart and KO on bargain deals, add another blue-chip young player in the draft.

Gay's scoring and Noel's defense and average rebounding make us a legit top team, with Toronto, San Antonio, LA. Cleveland and Golden State are still the favorites - but luck or inspired play could get us a ring.

And we balance short-term improvement and long-term flexibility. We're probably spending the cap money on Noel and Gay anyway - if Gordon Hayward really wants to come here (I think he stays in Utah, now that they're winning and can pay him, or walks someplace with a warmer sales pitch, Miami or LA), we can send them Gay or Crowder, or create cap room dealing Avery or Jae).

What happened to Brown?

Andrew McCeltic · Post #1069 » by **Andrew McCeltic** » Tue Jan 17, 2017 1:07 pm

Celts17Pride wrote:
Andrew McCeltic wrote:FWIW, Cleveland and LA would both be better if they replaced their power forwards with Melo.

You sound like a Knicks fan. No.

I don't mean having Melo play the 4 necessarily, I just mean as far as offensive fit, synergy, etc., they'd both function better without the square peg power forwards and with a scoring 3/4 instead.

Andrew McCeltic · Post #1070 » by **Andrew McCeltic** » Tue Jan 17, 2017 1:08 pm

CrowderKeg wrote:
Andrew McCeltic wrote:That might be the best bet - get Noel, trade Jerebko/Zeller for Gay. You can still think about Bradley/Crowder deals for Lavine, Gordon, Serge.. But

IT/Smart
Bradley/Green
Crowder/Gay/Young
Horford/Olynyk
Amir/Noel

With BKN 17, is a nice way to play out the season. I'd actually just keep everyone and go over the cap (we did that with Bass, Green one year we had "max cap space") - keep Gay, Amir on short deals, try to get Noel, Smart and KO on bargain deals, add another blue-chip young player in the draft.

Gay's scoring and Noel's defense and average rebounding make us a legit top team, with Toronto, San Antonio, LA. Cleveland and Golden State are still the favorites - but luck or inspired play could get us a ring.

And we balance short-term improvement and long-term flexibility. We're probably spending the cap money on Noel and Gay anyway - if Gordon Hayward really wants to come here (I think he stays in Utah, now that they're winning and can pay him, or walks someplace with a warmer sales pitch, Miami or LA), we can send them Gay or Crowder, or create cap room dealing Avery or Jae).

What happened to Brown?

Right, even better. He gets back-up minutes at the 2 (which Gay has played a little himself), Bradley can play a little point.

Andrew McCeltic · Post #1071 » by **Andrew McCeltic** » Tue Jan 17, 2017 1:19 pm

Love the idea of Amir mentoring Noel, and Gay's versatile, can score and defend - likely to struggle in our system, but if he's the lead scorer for the second unit, it doesn't matter.

& again, if we're giving up Zeller/Jerebko/Rozier/1st-or-Yabu max, we're not doing much to hurt our flexibility this summer. Worst-case, somebody offers Noel a big deal on day 1 of free agency, we don't match because we're tied up with other stuff, and we miss on all the big-ticket guys. Best-case, we sign and trade Gay for Hayward or Ibaka, keep Nerlens, KO, extend Smart, and add another future star like Jackson, Tatum, Fultz, Ball.

FlatearthZorro · Post #1072 » by **FlatearthZorro** » Tue Jan 17, 2017 1:39 pm

sully00 wrote:
Boston34Bg wrote:
Andrew McCeltic wrote:FWIW, Cleveland and LA would both be better if they replaced their power forwards with Melo.

LAC dont have very many assets. Cleveland dont have any at all. I guess there's a slight possibility LAC can make that trade happen. Just my opinion, but Melo is not better than Griffin, he's never been. A healthy Griffin in top form is the best PF if not the 2nd best PF in the game.

I wanted to believe this at one time but man Griffin is just not available. Dude is on track to have missed half of his team's games the last 3 seasons. What is he better at than Melo?

The more I look at this thing and look at what the options are. Instead of trying to facilitate sending Melo to LAC or CLE I would see how far the price can fall and see if we can't convince him to waive his No Trade to come to Boston. I actually think he is a great fit for Boston's offense and we just need him to buy into playing enough defense to not be a liability.

The reality is there is no one player who we can sign this off season that is going to push us to catch CLE. It is all Tier 2 guys. They might be younger than Melo and a little less high maintenance but Butler and Griffin have their drama too. Melo's contract and age fit with what you have going on with Horford and Thomas. He signed long enough that is worth trading something for him and at the same time not so long that your worried about the back end.

I am not likely to even give up a BRK pick for him but who knows what the price will be by the deadline. Nobody is going to include a lottery pick for him. But Boston has lots of other parts that can look like the Knicks got something maybe even bite the bullet and take back Noah. It isn't perfect but it addresses Boston needs and will elevate LeBron's stress level a bit.

You're correct. Griffin's health is a big question mark at this point.

Regarding Anthony, I wouldn't give up much for him. Maybe Jae, Mem pick , filler, filler(1 of them young guys, dunno who).. I just don't see this guy as a winner. As I wrote before he looks out of shape too(belly) and wanting to stay in NY while missing the big time games- the playoffs while all his friends/rivals are there each and every year tells me he doesn't want to win. He wants to live a glamour live, make a ton of money, while half-hearting basketball.

Banks2Pierce · Post #1073 » by **Banks2Pierce** » Tue Jan 17, 2017 2:27 pm

Boston34Bg wrote:
Regarding Anthony, I wouldn't give up much for him. Maybe Jae, Mem pick , filler, filler(1 of them young guys, dunno who).. I just don't see this guy as a winner.

Jae Crowder has more value right now than Carmelo. New York will be lucky to get him off their books for more than 1 pick. Maybe I'm underestimating what it'd take to get him, but in that case I'm fine with leaving it.

Andrew McCeltic · Post #1074 » by **Andrew McCeltic** » Tue Jan 17, 2017 2:28 pm

That was going to be my other question - if we could get Noel for Rozier, keep Jaylen, Smart and the BKN picks, and get Melo for something like Crowder, Zeller, Jerebko, Young, Mickey, and a 1st - is that worth it?

IT/Smart/Jackson
Bradley/Brown/Green
Carmelo/Nader
Horford/Olynyk
Amir/Noel

Plus vet min buy-out guys this year (Bogut?), the BKN pick this summer, Zizic, Yabu... Maybe you trade Amir for Nurkic/Faried, you can think about whether you want to deal Avery for Lavine or Gordon or with Amir for Ibaka - but that would be a team.

Andrew McCeltic · Post #1075 » by **Andrew McCeltic** » Tue Jan 17, 2017 2:30 pm

Plus, you re-sign Olynyk, Noel and Amir, you extend Smart, and then with Brown, BKN 17 draftee (Ball? Fultz? Tatum? Jackson? Giles?), Zizic, and BKN 18, you have the cap and pieces to go get Butler or Cousins or John Wall, after all.

TheOGJabroni · Post #1076 » by **TheOGJabroni** » Tue Jan 17, 2017 2:47 pm

I'm surprised to see so many advocating for Melo now. I did at one point, probably as early as this offseason, but I'm not sure he's the guy we want anymore. The only way I even consider it is if we have the greater deal for a big lined up (and I'm not talking Noel). I'm talking Davis, Cousins, etc.

Basically if we can get Melo for little to nothing and offer up the farm for AD, then sure. It may even be a better option than offering up a lot for Butler then not having enough for the bigger prize.

Andrew McCeltic · Post #1077 » by **Andrew McCeltic** » Tue Jan 17, 2017 3:12 pm

CsBsSoxPhins wrote:I'm surprised to see so many advocating for Melo now. I did at one point, probably as early as this offseason, but I'm not sure he's the guy we want anymore. The only way I even consider it is if we have the greater deal for a big lined up (and I'm not talking Noel). I'm talking Davis, Cousins, etc.

Basically if we can get Melo for little to nothing and offer up the farm for AD, then sure. It may even be a better option than offering up a lot for Butler then not having enough for the bigger prize.

Melo is overpaid, he's got a trade kicker, he's 32, and he's dogging it in New York and/or has lost a step, and/or has bad numbers because he's got no help. I think I pass in the end, unless, like you said, there's a second deal. He's still a good player, a clutch scorer, with size.

Kevin Love is having a great season in Cleveland, and they finally figured out how to work him into the mix - but it still feels very delicate. If Melo wants Cleveland and Lebron wants Melo, we might be able to get Love by facilitating. The Knicks have Noah, too, who they'd probably like to send to Cleveland.

Love would be a great fit in our system, he'd fix our rebounding issues, he's not a lost cause defensively, and his mix of shooting and pick and roll versatility is like Horford x 10. He and IT would beast.

fallguy · Post #1078 » by **fallguy** » Tue Jan 17, 2017 3:18 pm

No interest in acquiring Melo.

You don't contend with him and you crush your cap room.

Pointless.

Andrew McCeltic · Post #1079 » by **Andrew McCeltic** » Tue Jan 17, 2017 3:33 pm

So I ran some scenarios through ESPN's trade machine and came up with this:

Love to Boston
Carmelo, Joakim Noah, and Terry Rozier (absorbed into TE) to Cleveland
Shump (9.7 million for 2 more seasons), Zeller/Jerebko/Young (expiring), Richard Jefferson (2.5 million for 2 more seasons) to New York

Knicks probably do it just to dump a ton of salary, we have spare 1sts and Olynyk/Mickey if we needed to grease the deal.
Cleveland gets a scorer who fits better than Love, plus a new AV in Noah, and Rozier, who could be held out very easily - I put him in make the numbers work.

Same deal works if you take out Rozier and put in Mickey (fodder, big body) to CLE for a TE and Gerald Green, who the Cavs might genuinely want.

Renegade_H · Post #1080 » by **Renegade_H** » Tue Jan 17, 2017 3:36 pm

If I could interject with a discussion on Noel. Noel and Okafor are definitely available. Now the recent play of Noel has gotten Sixers fans salivating at the fact that an entire game could be handled defensively (even with Embiid out). Okafor is the primary guy to move to most.

That being said, I think Boston fans have to seriously investigate whether or not Rozier is better than TJ McConnell? Sixer fans would take Avery Bradley in a heartbeat. He is exactly what Simmons needs next to him.