Trade Thread 2017: Not Once, Not twice, But Thrice!

[Andrew McCeltic]

Other ways to make it work, if we don't hold Amir out for a separate deal. But I'd do that trade, immediately, and then probably Rozier for Noel, and then see if Butler or Cousins are available for Amir+. The only thing we sacrifice is cap space, which turns out to be a commodity in this scenario, since Cleveland and New York have their hands tied by bad money. We can always give Amir another Zeller-esque deal and hold onto him as a happy roleplayer/trade chip. We have Brown developing, two more BKN picks, and the flexibility to add John Wall or Cousins or Butler, but even without any follow-ups, Love, who gets the motivation of being 1A to Thomas' 1B, and has proven he's healthy and able to play at a MIN level, immediately makes us a contender in his own right. And great storylines.

[DijonRondo]

I implore you all to go to the knicks board and read this. viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1511563&start=100#start_here

These **** retards actually coming up with trade proposals involving our Nets pick for washed up Melo.

[Celts17Pride]

If I could interject with a discussion on Noel. Noel and Okafor are definitely available. Now the recent play of Noel has gotten Sixers fans salivating at the fact that an entire game could be handled defensively (even with Embiid out). Okafor is the primary guy to move to most.

That being said, I think Boston fans have to seriously investigate whether or not Rozier is better than TJ McConnell? Sixer fans would take Avery Bradley in a heartbeat. He is exactly what Simmons needs next to him.

Bradley is not getting moved for Noel. You can forget about that scenario. I really don't believe the Celtics have any interest in Noel at all.

The Celtics have Zizic coming over next year. The Celtics most likely feel that Zizic at $1.5 million can offer something similar to Noel at $17-20 million. I tend to agree.

[TheOGJabroni]

I'm surprised to see so many advocating for Melo now. I did at one point, probably as early as this offseason, but I'm not sure he's the guy we want anymore. The only way I even consider it is if we have the greater deal for a big lined up (and I'm not talking Noel). I'm talking Davis, Cousins, etc.

Basically if we can get Melo for little to nothing and offer up the farm for AD, then sure. It may even be a better option than offering up a lot for Butler then not having enough for the bigger prize.

Melo is overpaid, he's got a trade kicker, he's 32, and he's dogging it in New York and/or has lost a step, and/or has bad numbers because he's got no help. I think I pass in the end, unless, like you said, there's a second deal. He's still a good player, a clutch scorer, with size.

Kevin Love is having a great season in Cleveland, and they finally figured out how to work him into the mix - but it still feels very delicate. If Melo wants Cleveland and Lebron wants Melo, we might be able to get Love by facilitating. The Knicks have Noah, too, who they'd probably like to send to Cleveland.

Love would be a great fit in our system, he'd fix our rebounding issues, he's not a lost cause defensively, and his mix of shooting and pick and roll versatility is like Horford x 10. He and IT would beast.

100% agree about your thoughts on Melo.

I just really don't see Cleveland letting go of Love for Melo, regardless of the friendship involved. I would love to be wrong as I definitely prefer Love on this team over Melo, I just don't see it.

[Andrew McCeltic]

If I could interject with a discussion on Noel. Noel and Okafor are definitely available. Now the recent play of Noel has gotten Sixers fans salivating at the fact that an entire game could be handled defensively (even with Embiid out). Okafor is the primary guy to move to most.

That being said, I think Boston fans have to seriously investigate whether or not Rozier is better than TJ McConnell? Sixer fans would take Avery Bradley in a heartbeat. He is exactly what Simmons needs next to him.

Bradley is not getting moved for Noel. You can forget about that scenario. I really don't believe the Celtics have any interest in Noel at all.

The Celtics have Zizic coming over next year. The Celtics most likely feel that Zizic at $1.5 million can offer something similar to Noel at $17-20 million. I tend to agree.

I'm an Okafor defender, I boost him here, but then he follows up by grabbing 2 rebounds in 20 minutes.

I don't think Zizic can provide what Noel does, they're very very different players. Zizic is going to be closer to other Euro bigs- Biedrins, Nurkic, Potapenko - physical defense, rebounding, hustle. Noel has year 1 of Garnett in Boston defensive potential.

We're not dealing Bradley unless, maybe, you sweeten the deal - Noel or Okafor, the Lakers' 1st, maybe Saric.

Rozier is better than McConnell. You need to investigate Rozier. Major jets, his floor is peak Darren Collison, his ceiling is higher. He can drive, elevate, get to the rim. He's fixed his jump shot. He is still learning how to play in an NBA offense, and run a team, and he's not getting the reps Smart has. But he showed major strides in summer league and made it onto league radars. Rozier is worth more than Noel, on the market, because of Nerlens' contract status and other issues. You'd be making out well. His ceiling is definitely above Jeff Teague, the guy you almost traded Noel for.

[Renegade_H]

If I could interject with a discussion on Noel. Noel and Okafor are definitely available. Now the recent play of Noel has gotten Sixers fans salivating at the fact that an entire game could be handled defensively (even with Embiid out). Okafor is the primary guy to move to most.

That being said, I think Boston fans have to seriously investigate whether or not Rozier is better than TJ McConnell? Sixer fans would take Avery Bradley in a heartbeat. He is exactly what Simmons needs next to him.

Bradley is not getting moved for Noel. You can forget about that scenario. I really don't believe the Celtics have any interest in Noel at all.

The Celtics have Zizic coming over next year. The Celtics most likely feel that Zizic at $1.5 million can offer something similar to Noel at $17-20 million. I tend to agree.

Thats fine. Just was reading the low ball offer of Rozier on many posts. You can forget that scenario.

[Renegade_H]

If I could interject with a discussion on Noel. Noel and Okafor are definitely available. Now the recent play of Noel has gotten Sixers fans salivating at the fact that an entire game could be handled defensively (even with Embiid out). Okafor is the primary guy to move to most.

That being said, I think Boston fans have to seriously investigate whether or not Rozier is better than TJ McConnell? Sixer fans would take Avery Bradley in a heartbeat. He is exactly what Simmons needs next to him.

Bradley is not getting moved for Noel. You can forget about that scenario. I really don't believe the Celtics have any interest in Noel at all.

The Celtics have Zizic coming over next year. The Celtics most likely feel that Zizic at $1.5 million can offer something similar to Noel at $17-20 million. I tend to agree.

I'm an Okafor defender, I boost him here, but then he follows up by grabbing 2 rebounds in 20 minutes.

I don't think Zizic can provide what Noel does, they're very very different players. Zizic is going to be closer to other Euro bigs- Biedrins, Nurkic, Potapenko - physical defense, rebounding, hustle. Noel has year 1 of Garnett in Boston defensive potential.

We're not dealing Bradley unless, maybe, you sweeten the deal - Noel or Okafor, the Lakers' 1st, maybe Saric.

Rozier is better than McConnell. You need to investigate Rozier. Major jets, his floor is peak Darren Collison, his ceiling is higher. He can drive, elevate, get to the rim. He's fixed his jump shot. He is still learning how to play in an NBA offense, and run a team, and he's not getting the reps Smart has. But he showed major strides in summer league and made it onto league radars. Rozier is worth more than Noel, on the market, because of Nerlens' contract status and other issues. You'd be making out well. His ceiling is definitely above Jeff Teague, the guy you almost traded Noel for.

Respect the opinion but gonna disagree. Defensive Bigs are hot right now. Whiteside and Noel are two that teams could really really use. Rozier, especially with this upcoming draft, will have diminished value.

I'd be willing to include the lesser of PHL or LAL with Noel for Bradley.

[Celts17Pride]

If I could interject with a discussion on Noel. Noel and Okafor are definitely available. Now the recent play of Noel has gotten Sixers fans salivating at the fact that an entire game could be handled defensively (even with Embiid out). Okafor is the primary guy to move to most.

That being said, I think Boston fans have to seriously investigate whether or not Rozier is better than TJ McConnell? Sixer fans would take Avery Bradley in a heartbeat. He is exactly what Simmons needs next to him.

Bradley is not getting moved for Noel. You can forget about that scenario. I really don't believe the Celtics have any interest in Noel at all.

The Celtics have Zizic coming over next year. The Celtics most likely feel that Zizic at $1.5 million can offer something similar to Noel at $17-20 million. I tend to agree.

I'm an Okafor defender, I boost him here, but then he follows up by grabbing 2 rebounds in 20 minutes.

I don't think Zizic can provide what Noel does, they're very very different players. Zizic is going to be closer to other Euro bigs- Biedrins, Nurkic, Potapenko - physical defense, rebounding, hustle. Noel has year 1 of Garnett in Boston defensive potential.

We're not dealing Bradley unless, maybe, you sweeten the deal - Noel or Okafor, the Lakers' 1st, maybe Saric.

Rozier is better than McConnell. You need to investigate Rozier. Major jets, his floor is peak Darren Collison, his ceiling is higher. He can drive, elevate, get to the rim. He's fixed his jump shot. He is still learning how to play in an NBA offense, and run a team, and he's not getting the reps Smart has. But he showed major strides in summer league and made it onto league radars. Rozier is worth more than Noel, on the market, because of Nerlens' contract status and other issues. You'd be making out well. His ceiling is definitely above Jeff Teague, the guy you almost traded Noel for.

Ainge is not giving Noel $15-20 million per year with Zizic and Yabusele coming to the Celtics next year at a combined $3 million. Especially with salary cap decisions due on IT, Bradley and Smart in a year. It's called cap management.

[Andrew McCeltic]

I implore you all to go to the knicks board and read this. viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1511563&start=100#start_here

These **** retards actually coming up with trade proposals involving our Nets pick for washed up Melo.

Of course they are. Highly unlikely, but that would be his trade ceiling, their best case scenario - we don't think he's washed up, we're hungry to win now and see an opportunity, we part with a Brooklyn pick. Not going to happen, and if we traded the Nets' pick to the Knicks it would be hell in the boroughs.

I came up with a trade proposal involving our expiring contracts and Shumpert to the Knicks, Love to Boston, with Noah and Carmelo to Cleveland. That's his trade floor. And with the major money involved, that could happen.

If anyone's reading RealGM and likes my posts, I'll 'Eddie' the Knicks in a heartbeat. The time to trade was last year, when the hype was high - and they should've either dealt Porzingis for a vet or Melo for a young player. Now it's going to be an anti-climactic divorce that brings New York nothing.

[Andrew McCeltic]

Bradley is not getting moved for Noel. You can forget about that scenario. I really don't believe the Celtics have any interest in Noel at all.

The Celtics have Zizic coming over next year. The Celtics most likely feel that Zizic at $1.5 million can offer something similar to Noel at $17-20 million. I tend to agree.

I'm an Okafor defender, I boost him here, but then he follows up by grabbing 2 rebounds in 20 minutes.

I don't think Zizic can provide what Noel does, they're very very different players. Zizic is going to be closer to other Euro bigs- Biedrins, Nurkic, Potapenko - physical defense, rebounding, hustle. Noel has year 1 of Garnett in Boston defensive potential.

We're not dealing Bradley unless, maybe, you sweeten the deal - Noel or Okafor, the Lakers' 1st, maybe Saric.

Rozier is better than McConnell. You need to investigate Rozier. Major jets, his floor is peak Darren Collison, his ceiling is higher. He can drive, elevate, get to the rim. He's fixed his jump shot. He is still learning how to play in an NBA offense, and run a team, and he's not getting the reps Smart has. But he showed major strides in summer league and made it onto league radars. Rozier is worth more than Noel, on the market, because of Nerlens' contract status and other issues. You'd be making out well. His ceiling is definitely above Jeff Teague, the guy you almost traded Noel for.

Ainge is not giving Noel $15-20 million per year with Zizic and Yabusele coming to the Celtics next year at a combined $3 million. Especially with salary cap decisions due on IT, Bradley and Smart in a year. It's called cap management.

I think we can get him for less than that on a hometown discount. I also still think we're overvaluing our cap room - I put out a Noel/Gay scenario where we give up very little. Remember Boston has a good reputation around the league, they treat players well, sometimes even overpay them (Zeller, Jeff Green) - we will be appealing to free agents, even if we don't get Hayward - we can always renounce Noel and Gay on day 1 of free agency, but more likely we keep them on the line and navigate our options *with* them. Gay could be a sign and trade candidate, especially if Hayward looks northeast, or he's a cost-effective roleplaying scorer. It doesn't do much to hurt our flexibility, they're both buy-low players who help us in the short run.

My hunch is that Zizic/Yabu/Jackson could get you Noel, and that Colangelo would love that package, because Zizic kicks the 'too many centers' can down the road, Yabu has fluke upside, and Jackson is a nice player everyone's sleeping on. We nabbed him in the second round and gave him a guaranteed contract for a reason.

[Andrew McCeltic]

Plus re: IT, Smart, Bradley - at some point the salary cap honeymoon is over, and we're either going to have to pay them or trade them. That's true whether we're trading for and re-signing Noel or not.

FWIW, if the league's truly gone pace and space, Noel is as ideal a defensive fit for it as Okafor is an obsolete offensive one. He can block shots, and he can cover a ton of ground with his hops/quicks. On good nights you feel like he could play 1 on 5. The trade-offs are that he's just an ok rebounder (that may change as he continues to physically develop) and can only catch lobs on offense. He could develop a shot, and he could develop a post move or two. He's janky on offense, but he's not stiff.

[jfs1000d]

Regarding Anthony, I wouldn't give up much for him. Maybe Jae, Mem pick , filler, filler(1 of them young guys, dunno who).. I just don't see this guy as a winner.

Jae Crowder has more value right now than Carmelo. New York will be lucky to get him off their books for more than 1 pick. Maybe I'm underestimating what it'd take to get him, but in that case I'm fine with leaving it.

Crowder is a versatile defender and shoots 43% from 3. He is somewhat limited offensively and can't create off dribble, but is worth a ton on trade market.


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[DijonRondo]

Plus re: IT, Smart, Bradley - at some point the salary cap honeymoon is over, and we're either going to have to pay them or trade them. That's true whether we're trading for and re-signing Noel or not.

FWIW, if the league's truly gone pace and space, Noel is as ideal a defensive fit for it as Okafor is an obsolete offensive one. He can block shots, and he can cover a ton of ground with his hops/quicks. On good nights you feel like he could play 1 on 5. The trade-offs are that he's just an ok rebounder (that may change as he continues to physically develop) and can only catch lobs on offense. He could develop a shot, and he could develop a post move or two. He's janky on offense, but he's not stiff.

If this was Bill Belichick, both IT and Bradley would be gone in the next two years. Unless they sign for a bargain again. We're truly locking ourselves into treadmill territory if we're locked into gigantic contracts for 2nd and 3rd option players and miss on the Nets picks.

[Renegade_H]

I agree with McCeltic. Eventually you are going to have to pay Bradley or trade him. If you trade his 8M salary this year and add Noel at 17M (Biyombo may have screwed this up), you are adding 9M for a defensive center who is from Boston. Zeller cannot match up with Embiid but I bet Noel could.

After 2017 season, you do not resign Zeller at 8M, now you cut Bradley and Zeller essentially to take on Noel's contract with the cap rising. Olynk's 4.5M will be gone with Zizic coming over. And you replace Bradley with a PG with Nets pick. Doesn't look terrible if you ask me.

[Celts17Pride]

I agree with McCeltic. Eventually you are going to have to pay Bradley or trade him. If you trade his 8M salary this year and add Noel at 17M (Biyombo may have screwed this up), you are adding 9M for a defensive center who is from Boston. Zeller cannot match up with Embiid but I bet Noel could.

After 2017 season, you do not resign Zeller at 8M, now you cut Bradley and Zeller essentially to take on Noel's contract with the cap rising. Olynk's 4.5M will be gone with Zizic coming over. And you replace Bradley with a PG with Nets pick. Doesn't look terrible if you ask me.

The Celtics, Ainge and Stevens have designs on Gordon Hayward next year. In order to get him the Celtics can't take on any salary for next year or additional cap holds. Celtics simply won't trade for Noel because of this reason no matter how much people talk about it.

If Hayward falls through and the Celtics love Noel then they will just offer him a max deal in July.

[Andrew McCeltic]

Plus re: IT, Smart, Bradley - at some point the salary cap honeymoon is over, and we're either going to have to pay them or trade them. That's true whether we're trading for and re-signing Noel or not.

FWIW, if the league's truly gone pace and space, Noel is as ideal a defensive fit for it as Okafor is an obsolete offensive one. He can block shots, and he can cover a ton of ground with his hops/quicks. On good nights you feel like he could play 1 on 5. The trade-offs are that he's just an ok rebounder (that may change as he continues to physically develop) and can only catch lobs on offense. He could develop a shot, and he could develop a post move or two. He's janky on offense, but he's not stiff.

If this was Bill Belichick, both IT and Bradley would be gone in the next two years. Unless they sign for a bargain again. We're truly locking ourselves into treadmill territory if we're locked into gigantic contracts for 2nd and 3rd option players and miss on the Nets picks.

In this era, IT is worth a big salary commitment on a contender. Bradley isn't, unless you have all the other pieces in place, and he's your gratuitous Tristan Thompson overpay.

That said, Bradley may be worth a big deal (15-20 million) in the analytics era. Defense is more measurable and more valuable now. He's in a tier underneath Jimmy Butler, Klay Thompson, and no one else I'm thinking of off the top of my head. Batum, probably. Derozan. The concern is that he's probably going to be leapfrogged by Wiggins, Jamal Murray, maybe Hield, Russell, Oladipo, Middleton, Hezonja, and our own Jaylen Brown. Shooting guard has been a dry position, but there's an influx of players trending upward.

[Andrew McCeltic]

I agree with McCeltic. Eventually you are going to have to pay Bradley or trade him. If you trade his 8M salary this year and add Noel at 17M (Biyombo may have screwed this up), you are adding 9M for a defensive center who is from Boston. Zeller cannot match up with Embiid but I bet Noel could.

After 2017 season, you do not resign Zeller at 8M, now you cut Bradley and Zeller essentially to take on Noel's contract with the cap rising. Olynk's 4.5M will be gone with Zizic coming over. And you replace Bradley with a PG with Nets pick. Doesn't look terrible if you ask me.

The Celtics, Ainge and Stevens have designs on Gordon Hayward next year. In order to get him the Celtics can't take on any salary for next year or additional cap holds. Celtics simply won't trade for Noel because of this reason no matter how much people talk about it.

If the price is low enough to acquire him, we waive Noel. What's the deadline for giving him his QO?

What are the rules now with sign and trades? Could we send out a re-upped Olynyk and a re-upped Amir to Utah, to match Hayward's 30ish million?

[Andrew McCeltic]

I'm not convinced the max cap space strategy is the best one, and I definitely wouldn't have the patience to stick to it.

[Renegade_H]

I agree with McCeltic. Eventually you are going to have to pay Bradley or trade him. If you trade his 8M salary this year and add Noel at 17M (Biyombo may have screwed this up), you are adding 9M for a defensive center who is from Boston. Zeller cannot match up with Embiid but I bet Noel could.

After 2017 season, you do not resign Zeller at 8M, now you cut Bradley and Zeller essentially to take on Noel's contract with the cap rising. Olynk's 4.5M will be gone with Zizic coming over. And you replace Bradley with a PG with Nets pick. Doesn't look terrible if you ask me.

The Celtics, Ainge and Stevens have designs on Gordon Hayward next year. In order to get him the Celtics can't take on any salary for next year or additional cap holds. Celtics simply won't trade for Noel because of this reason no matter how much people talk about it.

If Hayward falls through and the Celtics love Noel then they will just offer him a max deal in July.

Sixers will match any deal for Noel. Dallas board is discussing a max for Noel as well.

[OFWGKTA]

I agree with McCeltic. Eventually you are going to have to pay Bradley or trade him. If you trade his 8M salary this year and add Noel at 17M (Biyombo may have screwed this up), you are adding 9M for a defensive center who is from Boston. Zeller cannot match up with Embiid but I bet Noel could.

After 2017 season, you do not resign Zeller at 8M, now you cut Bradley and Zeller essentially to take on Noel's contract with the cap rising. Olynk's 4.5M will be gone with Zizic coming over. And you replace Bradley with a PG with Nets pick. Doesn't look terrible if you ask me.

The Celtics, Ainge and Stevens have designs on Gordon Hayward next year. In order to get him the Celtics can't take on any salary for next year or additional cap holds. Celtics simply won't trade for Noel because of this reason no matter how much people talk about it.

If the price is low enough to acquire him, we waive Noel. What's the deadline for giving him his QO?

What are the rules now with sign and trades? Could we send out a re-upped Olynyk and a re-upped Amir to Utah, to match Hayward's 30ish million?

You can't combine a S&T'd player with other players, so we could sign and trade Olynyk for Hayward. As far as I can tell though, that would work as we should have enough cap space to make up the difference between Olynyk's and Hayward's salaries.