Political Roundtable Part XII

[AFM]

As long as we're dumping political signs

[dckingsfan]

I have to agree with Nate on this one, especially after this election cycle. The Graph can't be two dimensional. You have social liberal and social conservation; fiscal liberal and fiscal conservative; and nationalist vs. globalist. And at least the last two have individuals in both parties.

I think it would need to be a multi-dimensional figure to be representative.

Add to that, there are now more Americans that aren't associated with either party and it is difficult to represent.

This last election cycle featured a centrist Dem presidential candidate who has a history of being a war hawk. Hillary is far closer to being a neocon than a leftist.

Yep. Great point - chart needs to have war hawk to dove on a continuum too...

[AFM]

Read on Twitter

He's got a point!!

[Induveca]

Read on Twitter

He's got a point!!

[Induveca]

As long as we're speculating, I personally think MLK would have been a member of the alt-right.

I'm sure he and Milo would have gotten along fabulously.

[Wizardspride]

Read on Twitter

[montestewart]

Read on Twitter

Watch on YouTube

[Induveca]

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/bc.marfeel.com/amp/www.nationalreview.com/article/420010/nietzschean-concept-explains-todays-pc-culture-jonah-goldberg?client=safari

Fascinating it explains both sides of today's war of anger (highly calling upon Kierkegaard, Nietzsche and others), and does indeed leave today's western liberals in a somewhat favorable "intellectual" light. However, accepting the reality of the limitations of human intellect and labeling a wide swath of the population as ignorant, as the cause of the ruling class' proclaimed social ills results in exactly what we're seeing today.

Anger, and a forcible seizure of a government which is rightly perceived to view/visibly treat the common man as ignorant. Self-fulfilling prophecy in some ways.

[payitforward]

Basically, I think he's "intellectually uncurious" (is that a word )

That's just elitist code for "idiot".

You and the liberals can go on thinking that if you want. Trump will continue to outflank you if you do.

Come on, nate....

What does this have to do with "liberal?" Do you see Trump as "conservative?" I sure don't. If you do, please tell me what "conservative" positions you think he holds -- seriously. E.g. has there been an anti-trade "conservative" in any recent decade?

I don't know how anyone can think Trump is anything but very clever. Leave aside his career, he just flummoxed both parties & got himself elected President! Dumb guys rarely do that kind of thing, at least not in my experience.

As to "intellectually curious" -- maybe he just isn't that. Would he be a better human being if "intellectually curious" were added to his list of personality traits. I guess maybe a little. But... not much.

The problem with Donald Trump is that he is a low quality human being, not that he's a dumb one.

[payitforward]

Must read

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-01-15/stunning-pair-interviews-trump-slams-nato-and-eu-threatens-bmw-tax-ready-cut-ties-me

Nate -- if you have the time and don't mind, will you read the comment thread below the article AFM links to, then tell me what you think of this particular group of Trump supporters? Thanks.

As to the article itself, it's a complete load of sh*t. But that's no surprise.

Is there any comment in particular that you wish me to opine on?

In general, it looks like most of the comments are from people who are outraged and/or afraid of the Muslim transformation in Europe. It's going to fundamentally change the culture of Europe and they're not happy about it.

I'd call that a generous account of a long list of incredibly ugly statements & express wishes.

Btw, is Zerohedge a European outfit? I don't know much about them. You suggesting the comment thread is a bunch of "Europeans" -- all of whom seem to have an American-sounding English as their native tongue? How do you think ZH does by way of enforcing its own policies: http://www.zerohedge.com/help/notice-racism

Btw, are you suggesting, as you write, that there actually is a "Muslim transformation... going to fundamentally change the culture of Europe" -- ?

Have you studied much European history? Spent a lot of time in Europe? Lived there? Speak any continental language fluently? Have actual personal friends who are European? Do you read any major European newspapers -- i.e. Neue Zuricher Zeitung, Le Monde, Corriere della Sera, Die Welt, Frankfurter Allgemeiner, etc.?

I guess my question is simpler: do you actually claim to know anything at all, outside of what you take uncritically from your preferred news sources (which do seem all to be from one sector of opinion), that would qualify you to make this kind of statement? Or induce someone who hears it to pay attention because of the knowledge behind the statement?

Perhaps you do, btw. In that case, I'd like to know -- out of that set of sources -- what gives you the idea?

[payitforward]

It's going to be interesting to see how Trump reacts when the D's thwart most of his agenda (needing to meet a 60 vote threshold). Will he pressure the R's in the senate to complete the nuclear option and change the senate rules to include legislation and SC nominations by simple majority? Harry Reid gave them cover when he said he had set up the senate to do just that if HC won. Kaine also speculated that it may very well be necessary if R's filibustered HC's agenda.

Currently there are 3-5 R senators on record opposed to the idea. Will they change their mind when pressure builds to pass legislation that's bottled up in D filibuster? I don't think R's would do well in 2018 and 2020 if they can't point to major reforms that have passed and been enacted. It's going to be interesting.

Trump's agenda has three primary facets: immigration, health care and trade.

Trump doesn't need any congressional help on immigration. All he has to do is enforce existing law. The only way he can be stopped is if Congress actually passes legislation to change the law to allow immigration to be even more permissive. But that's not going to happen because enough Republican congressman paid attention to the election and know that their base wants immigration laws enforced. There isn't a majority in the House who will oppose Trump.

Trump is going to need congressional help on health care. This is why his health care agenda is basically the same as that of mainstream Republicans. It'll be a difficult fight to get reform accomplished, but none of it will be any different than any normal fight to get major legislation approved.

Trump can accomplish much of his trade agenda at the executive level without congressional approval. The interesting thing about trade is that, where congressional approval is necessary, Trump is as likely to draw support from Democrats as Republicans.

I take it in that case that you think he should have pretty good success in re: these 3 main facets of his agenda. You predict that

1. Trump will deport some significant % of illegal aliens, and he will enforce laws in such a way as to stem most (or at least a significant % of) illegal immigration.

2. Though difficult to accomplish, Trump will actually get rid of ACA -- i.e. he will cause 18-20 million people (is that the right number?) to lose their health insurance. He'll do this with the help of Republicans in the Senate & House. Btw, what do you mean by "reform" in your statement -- or, perhaps, what does Donald Trump mean?

3. Trump will actually install trade barriers in the form of significant tariffs? Presumably starting w/ trade barriers vs. his repeatedly identified worst actor, China? Who else -- Mexico? & you think he'll do this via executive actions, not (primarily) legislation?

[gtn130]

Read on Twitter

I wonder what Induvea will say when Assange does no such thing.

[TGW]

Read on Twitter

It cracks me up that people think Abraham Lincoln "freed the slaves." Lincoln freeing the slaves had nothing to do with liberty and freedom; it had everything to do with weakening the South's economic base so that Northern states could compete evenly in the market.

If LePage thinks black people should thank white people for that, well he's a bigger moron than I originally thought.

[AFM]

Read on Twitter

He's got a point!!

[NatP4]

Basically, I think he's "intellectually uncurious" (is that a word )

That's just elitist code for "idiot".

You and the liberals can go on thinking that if you want. Trump will continue to outflank you if you do.

Come on, nate....

What does this have to do with "liberal?" Do you see Trump as "conservative?" I sure don't. If you do, please tell me what "conservative" positions you think he holds -- seriously. E.g. has there been an anti-trade "conservative" in any recent decade?

I don't know how anyone can think Trump is anything but very clever. Leave aside his career, he just flummoxed both parties & got himself elected President! Dumb guys rarely do that kind of thing, at least not in my experience.

As to "intellectually curious" -- maybe he just isn't that. Would he be a better human being if "intellectually curious" were added to his list of personality traits. I guess maybe a little. But... not much.

The problem with Donald Trump is that he is a low quality human being, not that he's a dumb one.

So the problem with Hillary Clinton was that she was not only a low quality human being, but also dumb right?

[NatP4]

Read on Twitter

He's got a point!!

Ivanka>

[tontoz]

That's just elitist code for "idiot".

You and the liberals can go on thinking that if you want. Trump will continue to outflank you if you do.

Come on, nate....

What does this have to do with "liberal?" Do you see Trump as "conservative?" I sure don't. If you do, please tell me what "conservative" positions you think he holds -- seriously. E.g. has there been an anti-trade "conservative" in any recent decade?

I don't know how anyone can think Trump is anything but very clever. Leave aside his career, he just flummoxed both parties & got himself elected President! Dumb guys rarely do that kind of thing, at least not in my experience.

As to "intellectually curious" -- maybe he just isn't that. Would he be a better human being if "intellectually curious" were added to his list of personality traits. I guess maybe a little. But... not much.

The problem with Donald Trump is that he is a low quality human being, not that he's a dumb one.

So the problem with Hillary Clinton was that she was not only a low quality human being, but also dumb right?

Hillary isn't dumb, just lazy, elitist and likes to play loose with the rules.

[AFM]

Everyone needs to watch this:

Watch on YouTube

F*cking amazing.

[closg00]

Read on Twitter

He's got a point!!

It's not helping Trump to have Putin as his PR manager.

One of the dozen women who stepped forward after "Grab-em by the pussy", was a porn star that Trump allegedly tried to pay for sex...it fits his sexual predator profile.

Drake then says she returned to her bedroom when she received a call from a man asking for her on Trump's behalf. "He said Donald wanted me to come back upstairs to Donald's suite," she explained. "I indicated I did not wish to return. Then Donald called. He asked me to return to his suite and have dinner with him. He also invited me to a party; I declined. Donald then asked me, 'What do you want? How much?' I told him that I couldn't because I had to return to L.A. for work. I said that as an excuse because I didn't want him to continue asking me, and I didn't want to be with him. After that, I received another call from either Donald, or a male calling on his behalf, offering me $10,000. I declined again and once more gave, as an excuse, that I had to return to Los Angeles for work. I was then told Mr. Trump would allow me to use his private jet only if I accepted his private invitation."

[AFM]

It's not helping Trump to have Putin as his PR manager.

One of the dozen women who stepped forward after "Grab-em by the pussy", was a porn star that Trump tried to for sex.

Drake then says she returned to her bedroom when she received a call from a man asking for her on Trump's behalf. "He said Donald wanted me to come back upstairs to Donald's suite," she explained. "I indicated I did not wish to return. Then Donald called. He asked me to return to his suite and have dinner with him. He also invited me to a party; I declined. Donald then asked me, 'What do you want? How much?' I told him that I couldn't because I had to return to L.A. for work. I said that as an excuse because I didn't want him to continue asking me, and I didn't want to be with him. After that, I received another call from either Donald, or a male calling on his behalf, offering me $10,000. I declined again and once more gave, as an excuse, that I had to return to Los Angeles for work. I was then told Mr. Trump would allow me to use his private jet only if I accepted his private invitation."

I am a porn aficionado, and have never jacked off to a porn star called "Drake". I've busted over 10,000 nuts to pornhub's extensive library, and this does NOT ring a bell. I'm calling BS on this one, closg00.

Anyway, it's all jokes, closg.


PS. Did anyone else here know that Putin has 30x as much money as Trump?

Dude is worth over 200 Billion?