Pringles Success Factor & Melo/Kobe

[poeman]

So, I was taking the train and reading articles about how Dantoni has totally changed the Rockets around...Maybe their GM is onto something...I also remember the last game we had where we had Amare and Gallo go off on the Heat I think and we won that game at the garden, only to trade Melo and then change our franchise around.

Sure we all blamed Pringles for the team playing zero defense, but I remember the whole team was buying into this 3-point and offense PnR concept and Amare was playing MVP ball.

But when Dantoni had to deal with Melo ISO ball it totally went against his methods...Then he went to the Lakers and ran into a similar issue with Kobe. Both players hold the ball too long and need isolation plays to draw success.

It is definitely not team ball...Now with where things stand do you think Dantoni was the primary issue or Melo has been the cause of our stagnant/poor overall play?

Can't blame the whole mess on Melo I think...Rambis is a awful coach and has no right to be teaching anything to NBA players, but Melo simply is a elite scorer and is not a team game changer. He also sucks below the rim, dude has no hops and gets rejected half the time.

Pringles probably looking at all the haters and laughing at us now....

P.S. I was a Pringles hater.

[NOOB77]

Pringles problem is the same as Phil's and the triangle. Both systems need high level talent at specific positions on the court in order to succeed. Both systems are flawed because they are unable to bend around the talent they have and get the most out of them.

MDA needs an elite level pick and roll player at a guard position and a bunch of dead eye three point shooters or his system will not work as he pounds you to death with the 1/5 pick and roll. Same issues we had with Gallo standing in the court were the same issues Melo had. At the time he was in his prime and was way to good to stand in the corner. That isn't using the talent to the best of there abilities.

Same with triangle you need certain spots on the floor to be able to make the triangle work. Melo did well in the triangle for the time Fisher ran it but never had the second alpha in a spot on the floor to make it work.

[NYKnicksTAPE]

The primary issue was and will always be our stupid organization.

Forget Pringles, the Knicks had a formula that won them 54 games and got them to game 6 of the 2nd round of the playoffs. That formula was Melo at the 4, a C who excelled at running the PnR, and spacing all around him. I loved that season...the team was so fun that year. The Knicks had the blueprint. What did they do to build upon that blueprint? They traded for Bargs of all people and put Melo right back at the 3.

This organization continuously makes bad decisions, and they will always be the one that I blame 1st.

[King of Canada]

Melo is too slow up the court to play in any system that depends on fast break points. He just is, at least at this point and as a Knick. He doesn't play that way at all. Even a big lumbering guy like Joakim is way faster up the court, and is always telling Melo to speed it up.

[poeman]

The primary issue was and will always be our stupid organization.

Forget Pringles, the Knicks had a formula that won them 54 games and got them to game 6 of the 2nd round of the playoffs. That formula was Melo at the 4, a C who excelled at running the PnR, and spacing all around him. I loved that season...the team was so fun that year. The Knicks had the blueprint. What did they do to build upon that blueprint? They traded for Bargs of all people and put Melo right back at the 3.

This organization continuously makes bad decisions, and they will always be the one that I blame 1st.

That was one season of Woodson getting the team to buy into defense. I agree there was so much optimism there, but then what happened next year?

The team literally bailed on Woodson and Woodson gave zero facks

[JXL]

So, I was taking the train and reading articles about how Dantoni has totally changed the Rockets around...Maybe their GM is onto something...I also remember the last game we had where we had Amare and Gallo go off on the Heat I think and we won that game at the garden, only to trade Melo and then change our franchise around.

Sure we all blamed Pringles for the team playing zero defense, but I remember the whole team was buying into this 3-point and offense PnR concept and Amare was playing MVP ball.

But when Dantoni had to deal with Melo ISO ball it totally went against his methods...Then he went to the Lakers and ran into a similar issue with Kobe. Both players hold the ball too long and need isolation plays to draw success.

It is definitely not team ball...Now with where things stand do you think Dantoni was the primary issue or Melo has been the cause of our stagnant/poor overall play?

Can't blame the whole mess on Melo I think...Rambis is a awful coach and has no right to be teaching anything to NBA players, but Melo simply is a elite scorer and is not a team game changer. He also sucks below the rim, dude has no hops and gets rejected half the time.

Pringles probably looking at all the haters and laughing at us now....

P.S. I was a Pringles hater.

When Melo went down with the groin injury in 2012, and Jeremy Lin was running the show, the Knicks looked like a different team when Lin was the guy and not Melo. When Melo came back, everything was out of whack, and let Lin get exposed. D'Antoni couldn't get Melo to buy in, so he quit. Lin tried to fit in what Melo wanted, and Lin became worse, so he got out by getting the Rockets to poison pill the contract.

In retrospect, it comes down to adaptability. Neither Melo nor Pringles had it, but Pringles' system isn't broken, James Harden is more dynamic than Nash, and with more shooting and inside scoring than what his Phoenix Suns' rosters had. Maybe, just maybe, it's the problem with ISO scorers unwilling to adapt their game to win.

[JXL]

The primary issue was and will always be our stupid organization.

Forget Pringles, the Knicks had a formula that won them 54 games and got them to game 6 of the 2nd round of the playoffs. That formula was Melo at the 4, a C who excelled at running the PnR, and spacing all around him. I loved that season...the team was so fun that year. The Knicks had the blueprint. What did they do to build upon that blueprint? They traded for Bargs of all people and put Melo right back at the 3.

This organization continuously makes bad decisions, and they will always be the one that I blame 1st.

That was one season of Woodson getting the team to buy into defense. I agree there was so much optimism there, but then what happened next year?

The team literally bailed on Woodson and Woodson gave zero facks

The team quit when the locker room leaders either retired or walked. Also, the Bargs trade happened.

[FKF]

The primary issue was and will always be our stupid organization.

Forget Pringles, the Knicks had a formula that won them 54 games and got them to game 6 of the 2nd round of the playoffs. That formula was Melo at the 4, a C who excelled at running the PnR, and spacing all around him. I loved that season...the team was so fun that year. The Knicks had the blueprint. What did they do to build upon that blueprint? They traded for Bargs of all people and put Melo right back at the 3.

This organization continuously makes bad decisions, and they will always be the one that I blame 1st.

One good year doesn't necessarily mean one good formula.

You can overachieve one year and get back to reality.

Look at the Blazers.

I just think we overachieved that year, thanks to some great veteran leadership from Kidd, Sheed, KT and Camby. Now Melo is supposed to lead younger dudes and remain the best player, this just can't work.

[Knicks93]

The primary issue was and will always be our stupid organization.

Forget Pringles, the Knicks had a formula that won them 54 games and got them to game 6 of the 2nd round of the playoffs. That formula was Melo at the 4, a C who excelled at running the PnR, and spacing all around him. I loved that season...the team was so fun that year. The Knicks had the blueprint. What did they do to build upon that blueprint? They traded for Bargs of all people and put Melo right back at the 3.

This organization continuously makes bad decisions, and they will always be the one that I blame 1st.

Melo has said he doesn't want to play the 4. Doesn't like banging around with bigger dudes. The Knicks traded for Bargs with this in mind hoping he could space the floor and defend the 4, allowing Melo to play the same way on offense and not have to defend opposing 4s. Didn't work out of course but that "formula" was never going to go anywhere. We got to the 2nd round with the best players we could have possibly put around Melo. We are never going to have that much leadership on a team again. Plus, no one wants to play in a system where Melo isolates every play and they stand in a corner, it is stupid inefficient ball in the modern NBA. It worked that season, but now there are a lot more quality teams in the league, we'd get ripped playing like that.

D'antoni has the right system. Pick and roll, a lot of ball movement. He doesn't have the most talent in Houston but that team is fun to watch and will go far.

[NYKnicksTAPE]

The primary issue was and will always be our stupid organization.

Forget Pringles, the Knicks had a formula that won them 54 games and got them to game 6 of the 2nd round of the playoffs. That formula was Melo at the 4, a C who excelled at running the PnR, and spacing all around him. I loved that season...the team was so fun that year. The Knicks had the blueprint. What did they do to build upon that blueprint? They traded for Bargs of all people and put Melo right back at the 3.

This organization continuously makes bad decisions, and they will always be the one that I blame 1st.

That was one season of Woodson getting the team to buy into defense. I agree there was so much optimism there, but then what happened next year?

The team literally bailed on Woodson and Woodson gave zero facks

The team lost a lot of vet leadership when guys like Kurt, Kidd, and Sheed left. That leadership was very important during that 54 win season. The FO should've recognized that and looked to bring in 1 or 2 guys who could provide what was lost. Instead, they brought in Bargs.

[NYKnicksTAPE]

The primary issue was and will always be our stupid organization.

Forget Pringles, the Knicks had a formula that won them 54 games and got them to game 6 of the 2nd round of the playoffs. That formula was Melo at the 4, a C who excelled at running the PnR, and spacing all around him. I loved that season...the team was so fun that year. The Knicks had the blueprint. What did they do to build upon that blueprint? They traded for Bargs of all people and put Melo right back at the 3.

This organization continuously makes bad decisions, and they will always be the one that I blame 1st.

One good year doesn't necessarily mean one good formula.

You can overachieve one year and get back to reality.

Look at the Blazers.

I just think we overachieved that year, thanks to some great veteran leadership from Kidd, Sheed, KT and Camby. Now Melo is supposed to lead younger dudes and remain the best player, this just can't work.

that was a good formula. Melo at the 4 where he was a mismatch offensively and at his best defensively, a good PnR big in Tyson...they just needed to upgrade from Felton and bring in some more athletes, maybe try to get a 3&D wing to put next to Melo as well

the Knicks didn't try to build upon that blueprint to see how far it could go, and it's way too late now...Melo isn't the same dude anymore and it's time for him to move on and for the Knicks to start a new chapter

[HEZI]

The primary issue was and will always be our stupid organization.

Forget Pringles, the Knicks had a formula that won them 54 games and got them to game 6 of the 2nd round of the playoffs. That formula was Melo at the 4, a C who excelled at running the PnR, and spacing all around him. I loved that season...the team was so fun that year. The Knicks had the blueprint. What did they do to build upon that blueprint? They traded for Bargs of all people and put Melo right back at the 3.

This organization continuously makes bad decisions, and they will always be the one that I blame 1st.

One good year doesn't necessarily mean one good formula.

You can overachieve one year and get back to reality.

Look at the Blazers.

I just think we overachieved that year, thanks to some great veteran leadership from Kidd, Sheed, KT and Camby. Now Melo is supposed to lead younger dudes and remain the best player, this just can't work.

Yeah and the Miami Heat were looking like a dynasty at the time. We had no formula to beat them, we couldn't even beat the Pacers. That season was the peak, there really was no room to get much better after that. No matter what moves we would have made, we were not reaching the Miami Heat level, it just wasn't happening.

[GONYK]

I can't believe people are declaring D'Antoni a good coach again

[Marty McFly]

everyone and their mother knew d'antoni needed a point guard for his system to succeed. the best/most consistent guy we had during his 4 year tenure was raymond **** felton. you can think the genius who tried to construct his ball club for that.

[HEZI]

I can't believe people are declaring D'Antoni a good coach again

James Harden for MVP and Coach of the Year

[NYKnicksTAPE]

The primary issue was and will always be our stupid organization.

Forget Pringles, the Knicks had a formula that won them 54 games and got them to game 6 of the 2nd round of the playoffs. That formula was Melo at the 4, a C who excelled at running the PnR, and spacing all around him. I loved that season...the team was so fun that year. The Knicks had the blueprint. What did they do to build upon that blueprint? They traded for Bargs of all people and put Melo right back at the 3.

This organization continuously makes bad decisions, and they will always be the one that I blame 1st.

Melo has said he doesn't want to play the 4. Doesn't like banging around with bigger dudes. The Knicks traded for Bargs with this in mind hoping he could space the floor and defend the 4, allowing Melo to play the same way on offense and not have to defend opposing 4s. Didn't work out of course but that "formula" was never going to go anywhere. We got to the 2nd round with the best players we could have possibly put around Melo. We are never going to have that much leadership on a team again. Plus, no one wants to play in a system where Melo isolates every play and they stand in a corner, it is stupid inefficient ball in the modern NBA. It worked that season, but now there are a lot more quality teams in the league, we'd get ripped playing like that.

D'antoni has the right system. Pick and roll, a lot of ball movement. He doesn't have the most talent in Houston but that team is fun to watch and will go far.

They had the right formula for a Melo-centric team. That blueprint looked like the best way to maximize him as a #1 option as well as lead to the most team success. A team with Melo as the #1 option or focal point of the offense isn't gonna be playing like Houston.

Where are all these quality teams that u speak of? Have u seen the EC playoff race? The West isn't that much better top to bottom than it was back then. The Blazers are projected to be the 8th seed with 38 wins.

[Thorn]

So, I was taking the train and reading articles about how Dantoni has totally changed the Rockets around...Maybe their GM is onto something...I also remember the last game we had where we had Amare and Gallo go off on the Heat I think and we won that game at the garden, only to trade Melo and then change our franchise around.

Sure we all blamed Pringles for the team playing zero defense, but I remember the whole team was buying into this 3-point and offense PnR concept and Amare was playing MVP ball.

But when Dantoni had to deal with Melo ISO ball it totally went against his methods...Then he went to the Lakers and ran into a similar issue with Kobe. Both players hold the ball too long and need isolation plays to draw success.

It is definitely not team ball...Now with where things stand do you think Dantoni was the primary issue or Melo has been the cause of our stagnant/poor overall play?

Can't blame the whole mess on Melo I think...Rambis is a awful coach and has no right to be teaching anything to NBA players, but Melo simply is a elite scorer and is not a team game changer. He also sucks below the rim, dude has no hops and gets rejected half the time.

Pringles probably looking at all the haters and laughing at us now....

P.S. I was a Pringles hater.

I wasn't at first and I do not think I ever really became a hater exactly.

I do think he is laughing at us and a few other teams right now though.

[Thorn]

I can't believe people are declaring D'Antoni a good coach again

lol... I think it is more a systems thing and having the right players for that system. I don't think he is an amazing coach for sure. I think I could win a lot with Nash and Harden if I was running the right system for them and the team around them.

[GONYK]

I can't believe people are declaring D'Antoni a good coach again

James Harden for MVP and Coach of the Year

I never hated him as much as plenty of others did. I defended him a lot.

I'm just saying, he's exactly what he's always been. A coach who lets the PG PnR his brains out, and wants to get a high volume of 3's up.

Single point of failure offense and just enough defense to get by.

People are acting like he all of a sudden became Pop or Rick Carlisle.

I guarantee you he's still screaming "Let's go! Let's go! Let's go!" every game

[Thorn]

I can't believe people are declaring D'Antoni a good coach again

James Harden for MVP and Coach of the Year

I never hated him as much as plenty of others did. I defended him a lot.

I'm just saying, he's exactly what he's always been. A coach who lets the PG PnR his brains out, and wants to get a high volume of 3's up.

Single point of failure offense and just enough defense to get by.

People are acting like he all of a sudden became Pop or Rick Carlisle.

I guarantee you he's still screaming "Let's go! Let's go! Let's go!" every game

This.