Long-Term vision

[twosevenstreet]

Just curious as to what you all think the long-term direction is of our franchise.

[MrDollarBills]

-Trade Brook Lopez for draft picks or a pick/prospect combo.
-Continue to compile young talent until 2019, see where we are by that season, what prospects are available in the lottery. If the guys we have pan out, we may not be in a position to tank.

-Attempt to poach Restricted Free Agents if possible.

-put an emphasis on adding two way players to the system

-draft or acquire a modern NBA center type player that can defend 1-5, 2-5, and 3-5 PnR plays, rebound, and block shots.

-Continue to develop Caris LeVert, Rondae Hollis-Jefferson, Isaiah Whitehead, and Chris McCullough.


This is really our only option due to our situation. The only untouchable on the roster regarding trades is Caris LeVert, who I believe will develop into a 20-5-5 player within 3-4 seasons. IMO, LeVert is officially building block #1.

[Prokorov]

Just curious as to what you all think the long-term direction is of our franchise.

I think they have been pretty open about it

This year is about building the foundation. and not just the on court product. scouts, a transition toward analytics, a staff 3 times the size, new capologists and legal team. new PR team. no approach to how treatment is done. new medical staff. etc. an emphasis on charecter and effort.

on court its not about wins, but about implementing space and pace systems. we have seen this as the nets rank 3rd in points added based on shot selection.

year 1 is also about developing young players.

year 2 will also be about developing young players, and starting to begin to form the roster. getting rid of guys who dont fit the system and tryng to sign ones who do.

year 3 will be more about trying to add pieces that fit.

year 4 is when the rebuild really begins as thats when we get our picks back. building through the draft and trades.

year 5 is when we can expect the focus to start to **** from development towards being competitice.

year 6-7 is when we would hope to be back into competing in the playoffs on an annual basis.

5-7 year plan and 2 years away from beggining the real on court rebuild. how we fare in free agency would determin whether its closer to 4-5 years or 6-7 years

[Paradise]

Just curious as to what you all think the long-term direction is of our franchise.

I think they have been pretty open about it

This year is about building the foundation. and not just the on court product. scouts, a transition toward analytics, a staff 3 times the size, new capologists and legal team. new PR team. no approach to how treatment is done. new medical staff. etc. an emphasis on charecter and effort.

on court its not about wins, but about implementing space and pace systems. we have seen this as the nets rank 3rd in points added based on shot selection.

year 1 is also about developing young players.

year 2 will also be about developing young players, and starting to begin to form the roster. getting rid of guys who dont fit the system and tryng to sign ones who do.

year 3 will be more about trying to add pieces that fit.

year 4 is when the rebuild really begins as thats when we get our picks back. building through the draft and trades.

year 5 is when we can expect the focus to start to **** from development towards being competitice.

year 6-7 is when we would hope to be back into competing in the playoffs on an annual basis.

5-7 year plan and 2 years away from beggining the real on court rebuild. how we fare in free agency would determin whether its closer to 4-5 years or 6-7 years

I highly doubt that long. It's not a 7 Year plan cause they didn't sign up for more than that. The goal is probably to be a playoff contender by 2020-2021. 4 Year plan by most organizational measures.

Remember, we would've had Tyler Johnson, Crabbe or Montiejunas. In a perfect world, and let's say we had all of them. That's a core of Lin, Johnson, Crabbe, IWH, RHJ, LeVert. That's a core ready to compete right away. You don't even factor Lopez into the situation and that's still a strong start to a rebuild. We would certainly look a lot more hopeful.

Marks is more of a Darryl Morey GM than a Sam Hinkie. He wants to build and draft but he also wants to be aggressive and opportunistic in free agency or via trade.

Hinkie had a long term vision which was a good one but he was almost obsessed with draft picks. You could make the argument he slowed their rebuild by overvaluing certain picks. MCW, Okafor, etc.

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[SF_Warriors]

Just curious as to what you all think the long-term direction is of our franchise.

I think they have been pretty open about it

This year is about building the foundation. and not just the on court product. scouts, a transition toward analytics, a staff 3 times the size, new capologists and legal team. new PR team. no approach to how treatment is done. new medical staff. etc. an emphasis on charecter and effort.

on court its not about wins, but about implementing space and pace systems. we have seen this as the nets rank 3rd in points added based on shot selection.

year 1 is also about developing young players.

year 2 will also be about developing young players, and starting to begin to form the roster. getting rid of guys who dont fit the system and tryng to sign ones who do.

year 3 will be more about trying to add pieces that fit.

year 4 is when the rebuild really begins as thats when we get our picks back. building through the draft and trades.

year 5 is when we can expect the focus to start to **** from development towards being competitice.

year 6-7 is when we would hope to be back into competing in the playoffs on an annual basis.

5-7 year plan and 2 years away from beggining the real on court rebuild. how we fare in free agency would determin whether its closer to 4-5 years or 6-7 years

I highly doubt that long. It's not a 7 Year plan cause they didn't sign up for more than that. The goal is probably to be a playoff contender by 2020-2021. 4 Year plan by most organizational measures.

Remember, we would've had Tyler Johnson, Crabbe or Montiejunas. In a perfect world, and let's say we had all of them. That's a core of Lin, Johnson, Crabbe, IWH, RHJ, LeVert. That's a core ready to compete right away. You don't even factor Lopez into the situation and that's still a strong start to a rebuild. We would certainly look a lot more hopeful.

Marks is more of a Darryl Morey GM than a Sam Hinkie. He wants to build and draft but he also wants to be aggressive and opportunistic in free agency or via trade.

Hinkie had a long term vision which was a good one but he was almost obsessed with draft picks. You could make the argument he slowed their rebuild by overvaluing certain picks. MCW, Okafor, etc.

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All of these players are fringe starters at best and levert has about 20 games under his belt. Heck, none of those guys are even starters today aside from Lin, and that includes RHJ who has been taken out of the starting lineup.

In order for the nets to be contenders again, they will probably have to rebuild through the draft when they have control of their own pick again through some form of tanking. It will probably be a miracle to be back in the playoffs by 2020/2021.

In the meantime, they should try getting some assets for Brook and develop as many young players as they can, at least imo.

[Ror1997]

Long term vision is to be a competent franchise by the time 2019 rolls around. In the meantime, we make up for the lack of picks by trying to develop young players and looking everywhere to find them. Until then, we just don't make any knee jerk reactions, and we don't rush the process either.

[MGrand15]

I think it's important to remember that we went pretty hard in the offseason for restricted FAs. We all knew striking out on everything was a possibility but it shows that we were trying to be a lot more competitive than we currently are.

[Paradise]

I think they have been pretty open about it

This year is about building the foundation. and not just the on court product. scouts, a transition toward analytics, a staff 3 times the size, new capologists and legal team. new PR team. no approach to how treatment is done. new medical staff. etc. an emphasis on charecter and effort.

on court its not about wins, but about implementing space and pace systems. we have seen this as the nets rank 3rd in points added based on shot selection.

year 1 is also about developing young players.

year 2 will also be about developing young players, and starting to begin to form the roster. getting rid of guys who dont fit the system and tryng to sign ones who do.

year 3 will be more about trying to add pieces that fit.

year 4 is when the rebuild really begins as thats when we get our picks back. building through the draft and trades.

year 5 is when we can expect the focus to start to **** from development towards being competitice.

year 6-7 is when we would hope to be back into competing in the playoffs on an annual basis.

5-7 year plan and 2 years away from beggining the real on court rebuild. how we fare in free agency would determin whether its closer to 4-5 years or 6-7 years

I highly doubt that long. It's not a 7 Year plan cause they didn't sign up for more than that. The goal is probably to be a playoff contender by 2020-2021. 4 Year plan by most organizational measures.

Remember, we would've had Tyler Johnson, Crabbe or Montiejunas. In a perfect world, and let's say we had all of them. That's a core of Lin, Johnson, Crabbe, IWH, RHJ, LeVert. That's a core ready to compete right away. You don't even factor Lopez into the situation and that's still a strong start to a rebuild. We would certainly look a lot more hopeful.

Marks is more of a Darryl Morey GM than a Sam Hinkie. He wants to build and draft but he also wants to be aggressive and opportunistic in free agency or via trade.

Hinkie had a long term vision which was a good one but he was almost obsessed with draft picks. You could make the argument he slowed their rebuild by overvaluing certain picks. MCW, Okafor, etc.

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All of these players are fringe starters at best and levert has about 20 games under his belt. Heck, none of those guys are even starters today aside from Lin, and that includes RHJ who has been taken out of the starting lineup.

In order for the nets to be contenders again, they will probably have to rebuild through the draft when they have control of their own pick again through some form of tanking. It will probably be a miracle to be back in the playoffs by 2020/2021.

In the meantime, they should try getting some assets for Brook and develop as many young players as they can, at least imo.

I'm sorry but where does it say a rebuild has to develop starting level talent at every position? That never happened except for OKC and it took a whole lot of luck. Every modern rebuild was a few draft picks but a whole lot of strategy trading.

Tyler Johnson is the 3rd highest scoring bench player in the league. He's definitely proven he can get better and develop into a starter.

Crowder, Thomas, Zeller, Olynyk and half of Boston's roster wouldn't start on a contender. Yet, they developed them into good players and good enough to lure Durant and Horford's interest.

Would Atlanta even be relevant if it wasn't for Bazemore, Carroll, Korver, Teague? None of these guys were ever lottery picks or starting level players. Yet, they were helping lead the Hawks to the #1 seed a couple years ago. Who was directly in charge of development? Kenny Atkinson.

Toronto only drafted Ross, Jonas, DeRozan. They acquired Lowry via Houston who lost his role, traded Gay and lucked into chemistry getting back Patterson, Vasquez. They were rebuilding for 5 Years and lucked into building a good team. Remember Lowry was almost dealt to NY?

Denver's rebuild was going nowhere until they lucked into Nikola Jokic and Jusef Nurkic. They were headed nowhere with tanking and building around Gallinari. Mudiay hasn't looked anything like the John Wall comparisons.

Orlando has been rebuilding through the draft and it's going nowhere. Oladpio was traded and now, it sounds like Aaron Gordon and Hezjona are available. Recent lottery selections.

Marks seems to be smart enough to stay away from the urge to mindlessly tank. You really should only look at tanking in can't miss draft classes. 2019, looks promising but it's too early to tell. Zion Williamson is expected be one of the top picks and I can see bust potential already. I'd rather build slowly through draft, FA, Europe and D-League.

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[Rainyy]

Such a long rebuild would be more palatable to me if we controlled our own picks. There's usually a synergy between asset-building and losing, which we do not have.

Given that, I am kind of discouraged Marks/Atkinson have had short-term winning as such a low priority.I believe there is a difference between a 15 win and a 30 win team, in terms of overall perception around the league. Specifically, I think that kind of a win jump marginally improves our free agency chances, as well as the trade value of assets like Lopez. More importantly, by actually trying to win, I think you can more fairly assess the talent we have. Perhaps that provides us more long-term flexibility through building incrementally, rather than committing to a blow-up. Obviously if we had our own pick, I would be singing a different tune.

Most of this is moot due to the Lin injury. Without a replacement-level point guard on this team, we are nowhere close to having the talent to win 30 games. But I guess I have been disappointed in the ~12 games where Lin has played.

I am iffy on Atkinson's system in the long-term, and think his system has been a completely disaster in the short-term. You'd be hard-pressed to find a worse system for the players on this roster. I would much rather see him make some adjusts. He can still utilize modern offensive principles and even variants on the motion offense, without having us to play to such an extreme (1st in pace, 2nd in three-point shooting). There's a middle-ground somewhere in there.

I personally think the players will develop better if morale is higher and the guys feel they have something to play for. I think a few guys have already given up on the season, which is hard to blame given the coach/GM have explicitly said this season is not about winning.

[Prokorov]

i dont think short term wins should matter at all. too much more important stuff to put in place to build something sustainable. thats really the goal. building something that can be sustained for a really long time and through several roster iterations. and for that you need to have the management/analuytics/cap/legal/PR/scouts/player performance staff all in place, working in synergy with the same goals and vision to achieve those goals.

that takes a while. and right now thats most important.

getting crabbe and johnson or whomever. no really all that relevant. maybe we win more games. those guys dont change much other then short term entertainment value. were still not a perrenial playoff team with those guys and a fringe contender just to make it even if those guys peaked here.

i think it is important to figure out what peices are worth keeping long term. and it helps to hit in free agency these next couple years. but in all honesty the real on court rebuild doesnt start until 2019-2020 unless by some odd occurence some allstars decide they want to play here or some late pick pulls an arenas and becomes a star overnight for us.

i think 4-5 years til playoffs and 6-7 years until sustained playoff appearances seems about right. and im fine with that

[Rainyy]

Marks seems to be smart enough to stay away from the urge to mindlessly tank. You really should only look at tanking in can't miss draft classes.

Couldn't agree more. It's the rare exception to build a Top 5 team through the draft alone. Look at a team like the Sacramento Kings. They have had 10 straight losing seasons and have absolutely nothing to show for it. I would caution anyone about talking so callously about a "5-7 year rebuild." That's a really long-time and if the primary part of that rebuild is tanking, then you are seriously exposing yourself to risk unless you hit on your picks.

I think there is often a stigma against fringe playoff teams (e.g. 6th-10th seed), as people adhere to this "championship or blow it up" (false) dichotomy. But it is often those teams who are in a position to very quickly improve. Who perhaps deceptively are only 1-2 free agent acquisitions away from being a good team. Especially with how in flux and weak the Eastern Conference is now, a lot of teams could potentially leapfrog from the 8th seed to #2/#3 behind the Cavs and maybe Raptors.

We aren't one of those teams, but, as we don't control our own picks, I kind of hope we try one year of trying to be a fringe playoff team. We were playing pretty well at the start of the season before Lin got hurt. If Lin stayed healthy and we hit on one of Crabbe/Johnson, I personally think we could compete for the 8th seed. I am torn on trading Lopez, but think we should hold out, unless we get something enticing.

If we pull out a 35 win season next year with Lin/Lopez/Otto Porter-type FA, it just gives us so much more flexibility, while not foreclosing our ability to tank at any time.

I still believe that a Lin-Lopez PnR is the structuring point for a very good offense. Just surround them with some spot-shooters and I think you have a much better offensive team that can score at a slower pace and not murder the defense. In that sense, I am disappointed we have Atkinson. Would much rather have someone aligned with what D'Antoni is doing in Houston.

[MrDollarBills]

I don't see this team in the playoffs until 2020 at earliest. It's just the reality of the situation. During that time, collect as much young talent with upside as possible while trying to leave room open for deals that could boost the overall talent level, but nothing crazy.

When we're not a free agent draw and we don't have picks, people need to lower expectations. The faster we get to the playoffs again depends seriously on how guys develop and getting two way players in this system.

Our offense is not the problem. we need guys that can contribute on defense.

[Prokorov]

I am iffy on Atkinson's system in the long-term, and think his system has been a completely disaster in the short-term. You'd be hard-pressed to find a worse system for the players on this roster. I would much rather see him make some adjusts. He can still utilize modern offensive principles and even variants on the motion offense, without having us to play to such an extreme (1st in pace, 2nd in three-point shooting). There's a middle-ground somewhere in there.

Now sure how you can be down on Atkinsons system... given we are top 5 in additional points created by shot selection. his system and his development/transformation of a few guys (lopez shooting threes instead of long twos) has certainly been a big boost.

I dont really see the need to fit the system to the players, when the goal is to evaluate which guys can play in the system and which guys we need to keep here long term. this is a roster of jags/expirings/role players. building an offense to suit your roster is something you do when you have a real NBA roster with starters and some talent.

I'm not sure id want a "middle" ground. why to win 3 or 4 more meaningless games? I'd rather say this is how we are going to play because this system has proven to work. and if you cant excel in this system then we need to trade you/not re-sign you.

I personally think the players will develop better if morale is higher and the guys feel they have something to play for. I think a few guys have already given up on the season, which is hard to blame given the coach/GM have explicitly said this season is not about winning.

I'm not sure if there is more motivation to play then to stay in the league/keep or earn a starting role/earn your next contract. if guys have given up on the season then to me thats a guy so mentally weak that i dont want him on my team moving forward anyhow. if you cant bring it every night with your career and money on the line then what will you do when you get paid?

i dont see that as a concern though, we play as hard as any team in the league. and everyone sings the coaches praises.


everyone knew the deal coming in. some guys (Lin, Booker, etc...) came here specifically for a chance to prove they could start. both could have easily gotten backup jobs on winning teams. so no sympathy for me if those guys are sour for not winning more.

[Paradise]

Marks seems to be smart enough to stay away from the urge to mindlessly tank. You really should only look at tanking in can't miss draft classes.

Couldn't agree more. It's the rare exception to build a Top 5 team through the draft alone. Look at a team like the Sacramento Kings. They have had 10 straight losing seasons and have absolutely nothing to show for it. I would caution anyone about talking so callously about a "5-7 year rebuild." That's a really long-time and if the primary part of that rebuild is tanking, then you are seriously exposing yourself to risk unless you hit on your picks.

I think there is often a stigma against fringe playoff teams (e.g. 6th-10th seed), as people adhere to this "championship or blow it up" (false) dichotomy. But it is often those teams who are in a position to very quickly improve. Who perhaps deceptively are only 1-2 free agent acquisitions away from being a good team. Especially with how in flux and weak the Eastern Conference is now, a lot of teams could potentially leapfrog from the 8th seed to #2/#3 behind the Cavs and maybe Raptors.

We aren't one of those teams, but, as we don't control our own picks, I kind of hope we try one year of trying to be a fringe playoff team. We were playing pretty well at the start of the season before Lin got hurt. If Lin stayed healthy and we hit on one of Crabbe/Johnson, I personally think we could compete for the 8th seed. I am torn on trading Lopez, but think we should hold out, unless we get something enticing.

If we pull out a 35 win season next year with Lin/Lopez/Otto Porter-type FA, it just gives us so much more flexibility, while not foreclosing our ability to tank at any time.

I still believe that a Lin-Lopez PnR is the structuring point for a very good offense. Just surround them with some spot-shooters and I think you have a much better offensive team that can score at a slower pace and not murder the defense. In that sense, I am disappointed we have Atkinson. Would much rather have someone aligned with what D'Antoni is doing in Houston.

The first step to the future is getting a long term answer at center. I don't see Lopez here for long and I definitely don't think he should be. It's like Bargnani when DeRozan was drafted to represent the future.

It seems like our plan is to draft two way players with size and high IQ.

If the plan is to go hard for Otto Porter then we should also pursue some defensive bigs like John Henson. Young established players who can help cultivate the Brooklyn Grit culture.

I don't see any motivation from Lopez to develop into a consistent all-star. He's good at shooting threes because as it's almost like a new toy. Remove the shooting and look at his numbers? Horrible rebounding, less blocks, etc. We'd be a lot better off with a big that is athletic, skilled or defensive minded.

[Rainyy]

were still not a perrenial playoff team with those guys and a fringe contender just to make it even if those guys peaked here.

I guess my belief is just that if a team like that sneaks into the playoffs and is in an attractive market like NY, then I think that opens doors for you to improve incrementally. It's not like Lin/Lopez is going to turn 30 and then forget how to play basketball. Once we regain control of our own draft pick, we can then consider whether tanking is in our best interest.

Part of this obviously turns on how someone values Lopez. That's definitely a difference between you and I, although my answer would be mostly the same regardless of whether or not he was here.

Finally, I agree with you on the importance of roster evaluation, expanding the front office, analytics, etc. I just think Atkinson can make more tweaks without compromising those goals.

I would be a lot more comfortable in a long-term rebuild, if I had faith in both management and the coach. I have faith in Marks, but until Atkinson shows me his ability to make adjustments, I think we are playing with fire. Granted, there are justifications for why the coach might not be compromising his system (e.g. it will outlast the players). But I am not going to believe in someone's ability on faith alone.

[MrDollarBills]

I am iffy on Atkinson's system in the long-term, and think his system has been a completely disaster in the short-term. You'd be hard-pressed to find a worse system for the players on this roster. I would much rather see him make some adjusts. He can still utilize modern offensive principles and even variants on the motion offense, without having us to play to such an extreme (1st in pace, 2nd in three-point shooting). There's a middle-ground somewhere in there.

Now sure how you can be down on Atkinsons system... given we are top 5 in additional points created by shot selection. his system and his development/transformation of a few guys (lopez shooting threes instead of long twos) has certainly been a big boost.

I dont really see the need to fit the system to the players, when the goal is to evaluate which guys can play in the system and which guys we need to keep here long term. this is a roster of jags/expirings/role players. building an offense to suit your roster is something you do when you have a real NBA roster with starters and some talent.

I'm not sure id want a "middle" ground. why to win 3 or 4 more meaningless games? I'd rather say this is how we are going to play because this system has proven to work. and if you cant excel in this system then we need to trade you/not re-sign you.

I personally think the players will develop better if morale is higher and the guys feel they have something to play for. I think a few guys have already given up on the season, which is hard to blame given the coach/GM have explicitly said this season is not about winning.

I'm not sure if there is more motivation to play then to stay in the league/keep or earn a starting role/earn your next contract. if guys have given up on the season then to me thats a guy so mentally weak that i dont want him on my team moving forward anyhow. if you cant bring it every night with your career and money on the line then what will you do when you get paid?

i dont see that as a concern though, we play as hard as any team in the league. and everyone sings the coaches praises.


everyone knew the deal coming in. some guys (Lin, Booker, etc...) came here specifically for a chance to prove they could start. both could have easily gotten backup jobs on winning teams. so no sympathy for me if those guys are sour for not winning more.

Don't think that Marks and the staff aren't watching everyone like hawks to see who is all in and who isn't even while we're at 8 wins. I don't want anyone on this team who has already quit now at this point, i don't care what the record is. outside of Lin and Lopez, everyone else is either a rookie or a fringe player. No one should be quitting.

[Prokorov]

Marks seems to be smart enough to stay away from the urge to mindlessly tank. You really should only look at tanking in can't miss draft classes.

Couldn't agree more. It's the rare exception to build a Top 5 team through the draft alone. Look at a team like the Sacramento Kings. They have had 10 straight losing seasons and have absolutely nothing to show for it. I would caution anyone about talking so callously about a "5-7 year rebuild." That's a really long-time and if the primary part of that rebuild is tanking, then you are seriously exposing yourself to risk unless you hit on your picks.

Yup... tanking doesnt work. maybe you tank and get lucky to fall into some lebron time generational star, but beyond that you probably just end up sucking with guys who dont care like sacramento or end up like philly iwth a revolving door of assets who probably end up leaving first chance they get if they pan out.

I dont think we are tanking though, or anything close to that. i think being smart and patient is important. if we try and move to fast we could set ourselves back in whats already a 5+ year trajectory.

If we pull out a 35 win season next year with Lin/Lopez/Otto Porter-type FA, it just gives us so much more flexibility, while not foreclosing our ability to tank at any time.

I still believe that a Lin-Lopez PnR is the structuring point for a very good offense. Just surround them with some spot-shooters and I think you have a much better offensive team that can score at a slower pace and not murder the defense. In that sense, I am disappointed we have Atkinson. Would much rather have someone aligned with what D'Antoni is doing in Houston.

I dont think offense should be a concern. what makes us so terrible is our defense and our live ball tunrovers. we can have a good offense without lopez. we i dont think we can have a good defense with lopez. i think lopez needs to go.

I think the last thing we need is a 35 win season where we max otto porter and have a "big" 3 of lopez-lin-porter where we make a dash for the 7-8 seed only to realize we have a core of an average PG, a center you cant be effective defensively with, and a max wing who is more of a second/third fiddle and none of the 3 players capable of being all-stars.

[MrDollarBills]

were still not a perrenial playoff team with those guys and a fringe contender just to make it even if those guys peaked here.

I guess my belief is just that if a team like that sneaks into the playoffs and is in an attractive market like NY, then I think that opens doors for you to improve incrementally. It's not like Lin/Lopez is going to turn 30 and then forget how to play basketball. Once we regain control of our own draft pick, we can then consider whether tanking is in our best interest.

Part of this obviously turns on how someone values Lopez. That's definitely a difference between you and I, although my answer would be mostly the same regardless of whether or not he was here.

Finally, I agree with you on the importance of roster evaluation, expanding the front office, analytics, etc. I just think Atkinson can make more tweaks without compromising those goals.

I would be a lot more comfortable in a long-term rebuild, if I had faith in both management and the coach. I have faith in Marks, but until Atkinson shows me his ability to make adjustments, I think we are playing with fire. Granted, there are justifications for why the coach might not be compromising his system (e.g. it will outlast the players). But I am not going to believe in someone's ability on faith alone.

the offensive system isn't the problem. we have no issues scoring. the fact of the matter is the team can't defend because out of the team's five best defenders, three of them are either rookies or 2nd year players and one of them hasn't played due to injury. Our starting center is a liability against the pick and roll. The roster make up's deficiency on defense is the reason why we stink, not Kenny's system. We get open, clean looks every time down the floor.

I know the coach is always the first to get a pound of flesh carved out of them on this franchise, but frankly how many coaches are we going to go through until fans start being honest with themselves that the players are truly the real reason as to why we stink?

[MrDollarBills]

Marks seems to be smart enough to stay away from the urge to mindlessly tank. You really should only look at tanking in can't miss draft classes.

Couldn't agree more. It's the rare exception to build a Top 5 team through the draft alone. Look at a team like the Sacramento Kings. They have had 10 straight losing seasons and have absolutely nothing to show for it. I would caution anyone about talking so callously about a "5-7 year rebuild." That's a really long-time and if the primary part of that rebuild is tanking, then you are seriously exposing yourself to risk unless you hit on your picks.

Yup... tanking doesnt work. maybe you tank and get lucky to fall into some lebron time generational star, but beyond that you probably just end up sucking with guys who dont care like sacramento or end up like philly iwth a revolving door of assets who probably end up leaving first chance they get if they pan out.

I dont think we are tanking though, or anything close to that. i think being smart and patient is important. if we try and move to fast we could set ourselves back in whats already a 5+ year trajectory.

If we pull out a 35 win season next year with Lin/Lopez/Otto Porter-type FA, it just gives us so much more flexibility, while not foreclosing our ability to tank at any time.

I still believe that a Lin-Lopez PnR is the structuring point for a very good offense. Just surround them with some spot-shooters and I think you have a much better offensive team that can score at a slower pace and not murder the defense. In that sense, I am disappointed we have Atkinson. Would much rather have someone aligned with what D'Antoni is doing in Houston.

I dont think offense should be a concern. what makes us so terrible is our defense and our live ball tunrovers. we can have a good offense without lopez. we i dont think we can have a good defense with lopez. i think lopez needs to go.

I think the last thing we need is a 35 win season where we max otto porter and have a "big" 3 of lopez-lin-porter where we make a dash for the 7-8 seed only to realize we have a core of an average PG, a center you cant be effective defensively with, and a max wing who is more of a second/third fiddle and none of the 3 players capable of being all-stars.

I'm with you. Lopez needs to go for both the sake of the player's career and this team's long term health. we need prospects, and we need to get a center on our roster that can defensively attack the pick and roll.

[Rainyy]

The first step to the future is getting a long term answer at center.

We'd be a lot better off with a big that's athletic, skilled or defensive minded.

It would be very difficult to find a better center than Lopez. The long-term answer is finding a backcourt that is better than replacement level.

I'd go as far as to say Lopez has been the unluckiest player in the NBA. I can't think of any other big in the league who has had as bad of a point guard situation than Lopez has now, let alone over the last two years. Two straight years with d-league talent. That hurts. Even before then, you had a highly overrated Joe Johnson and a hobbled Deron Williams.

As for defense - it really depends what system we are running. I agree if we are to run an extreme and demanding scheme like Atkinson's, Lopez is a poor fit. But I think people need to realize that we are an outlier. I don't think any center would look good defensively with what we run. More athletic centers would look better, but the center has an impossible task on this roster.

It's not just our terrible backcourt wing/PnR defenders (Bogs, Kirkpatrick, Harris, Dinwiddie, IW) - we play at the NBA's fastest pace and incorporate pretty aggressive PnR blitz schemes. I was checking today, and noticed something interesting: on a per minute-basis, Lopez has traveled more distance than any other center in the NBA.

Let that sink in. We have one of the slowest centers in the NBA and he has literally covered more ground than any center in the NBA not named Karl-Anthony Towns, a young and athletic freak. Give Lopez credit for not keeling over and having a heart attack. He has the hardest defensive job in the NBA right now.

I guess my point is simple: play to your strengths. Among starting centers who have played > 20 games and > 20 mpg, Lopez is 3rd in rim protection. He's been Top 10 in that category for a while now. He has for yet another season, a negative FG% differential that places him in the Top 20% of the league among bigs.

The guy is overall a good defender, but like most non-star players he has strengths and weaknesses. I would rather Atkinson make tweaks to his system to hide these weaknesses than attempt to showcase them.