The Players Vote - SHAMEFUL

[DaleyBlind]

All Star weekend is the worse thing about the NBA season, I dont know how people can watch that garbage every year.

[HurricaneKid]

As long as people are voting, there will be a problem. Then if we move to some sort of formula (think BCS), people will complain that there isn't enough "eye test" involved.

There is no perfect system. Luckily it's pretty meaningless.

Which is why people need to chill.

We use all star starts and games when looking at HOF status and I believe making it still effects the $$$ people can make, though that might've been changed in the new CBA

6 year extensions (5 year extensions before the free agency season starts) worth in excess of 240M (48M/) are riding on these ASG selections.

HoF credentials ALWAYS include ASG selections.

If the ASG doesn't matter (and I haven't watched a full ASG in 15 years) then $, legacy, etc need to be removed from consideration as well. If it doesn't matter 1/4 BILLION DOLLAR DEALS shouldn't hinge on them. The fact that they do means that they obviously DO matter.

[PeptoKlepto]

I take players' voting about as seriously as I do the fans.

[Patches Perry]

As long as people are voting, there will be a problem. Then if we move to some sort of formula (think BCS), people will complain that there isn't enough "eye test" involved.

There is no perfect system. Luckily it's pretty meaningless.

Which is why people need to chill.

We use all star starts and games when looking at HOF status and I believe making it still effects the $$$ people can make, though that might've been changed in the new CBA

HOF is not necessarily designated for the "best" players but the most famous. It's right in the name. And either way, just like being an all-star, or MVP, or All-NBA, it's all merely contingent on someone's opinion. I don't really see any escape from that regardless of how prestigious the recognition.

As far as contracts, those kind of stipulations are the fault of the player. If you understand how all-stars are voted on beforehand and still accept incentive bonuses based on all-star status, then I don't really see any injustice. You knew you put your money in the hands of people who probably can't be trusted to recognize the very best players in all cases.

[K_chile22]

Which is why people need to chill.

We use all star starts and games when looking at HOF status and I believe making it still effects the $$$ people can make, though that might've been changed in the new CBA

HOF is not necessarily designated for the "best" players but the most famous. It's right in the name. And either way, just like being an all-star, or MVP, or All-NBA, it's all merely contingent on someone's opinion. I don't really see any escape from that regardless of how prestigious the recognition.

As far as contracts, those kind of stipulations are the fault of the player. If you understand how all-stars are voted on beforehand and still accept incentive bonuses based on all-star status, then I don't really see any injustice. You knew you put your money in the hands of people who probably can't be trusted to recognize the very best players in all cases.

Not talking about bonuses. The Rose Rule in the current CBA for example depends on all star criteria for a player to make as much as he can iirc.

[CoreyGallagher]

Not talking about bonuses. The Rose Rule in the current CBA for example depends on all star criteria for a player to make as much as he can iirc.

That was changed in new CBA, AS appearances don't matter anymore.

[Bergmaniac]

Which is why people need to chill.

We use all star starts and games when looking at HOF status and I believe making it still effects the $$$ people can make, though that might've been changed in the new CBA

6 year extensions (5 year extensions before the free agency season starts) worth in excess of 240M (48M/) are riding on these ASG selections.

HoF credentials ALWAYS include ASG selections.

If the ASG doesn't matter (and I haven't watched a full ASG in 15 years) then $, legacy, etc need to be removed from consideration as well. If it doesn't matter 1/4 BILLION DOLLAR DEALS shouldn't hinge on them. The fact that they do means that they obviously DO matter.

So? Why do you give a damn who is in the HoF or whether a guy will make 25 mln. or 30 mln. per year? I couldn't care less about that.

[Patches Perry]

If the ASG doesn't matter (and I haven't watched a full ASG in 15 years) then $, legacy, etc need to be removed from consideration as well. If it doesn't matter 1/4 BILLION DOLLAR DEALS shouldn't hinge on them. The fact that they do means that they obviously DO matter.

I think in the last decade or so we're getting away from using all-star appearances and awards to compare players. "Legacy" should be determined by ability and production, with some consideration for timing of production (playoff moments, etc). Nash's two MVPs don't make him superior to Kobe or Shaq with only 1. All star games and appearances are about the same in that way.

[HurricaneKid]

Not talking about bonuses. The Rose Rule in the current CBA for example depends on all star criteria for a player to make as much as he can iirc.

That was changed in new CBA, AS appearances don't matter anymore.

ASG starters do.

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q16

Young players can receive contracts worth > 30M more with 2 ASG starts and players can receive EARLY 5 year extensions with the same.

[King of Canada]

Dude, those players voted for themselves or each other

[NZB2323]

The players vote was SHAMEFUL. It appears that out of 450 players about ~323 of them voted. And MANY that voted didn't take it remotely seriously. The WC backcourt is pretty top heavy and I really discount any vote outside of Curry/Harden/CP3 and Westbrook. Yet only 391 of the ~646 votes (900 possible votes) went to them.

The players weren't picking backups. They were voting for two Western Conf backcourt starters.

Yet these guys got votes from players TO START THE ASG:
Bryn Forbes
Tyler Ennis (2!)
Malik Beasley (2!)
Ian Clark
Calderon (2!)
John Lucas III
Quincy Pondexter
Pierre Jackson
Huertas
And a TON of other undeserving players.

I mean there was an outcry that the two time reigning MVP made the ASG yet we hear crickets when THESE votes are cast. I didn't even know some of these guys were IN the western conference (and some of them AREN'T EVEN ON ROSTERS).

Less than 35% the NBA players voted for two of Curry/Harden/Westbrook/CP3.

Its one thing for a fan to vote for a player on their team, or a guy they met that was really nice to them. Its another for the players to put their friends on the ballot when they were so undeserving. So next year lets remove the players altogether and give their portion to GMs/Coaches. Or SOMETHING ELSE. To me, this REALLY impacted my feelings on the player awards too. Because if you are throwing your college buddy an AS vote, you are probably throwing him an MVP vote too. And there is simply no validity to these votes.

So it makes more sense for fans to make unreasonable picks for people they've never met, than for players to make unreasonable picks for their teammates that they see every day?

[CoreyGallagher]

Not talking about bonuses. The Rose Rule in the current CBA for example depends on all star criteria for a player to make as much as he can iirc.

That was changed in new CBA, AS appearances don't matter anymore.

ASG starters do.

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q16

Young players can receive contracts worth > 30M more with 2 ASG starts and players can receive EARLY 5 year extensions with the same.

http://official.nba.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/4/2017/01/NBA-2017-CBA-Principal-Deal-Points.pdf

From January 19th, these are the only listed requirements now:

• the player was named to the All-NBA first, second, or third team, or was
named Defensive Player of the Year, in the immediately preceding
season or in two of the immediately preceding three seasons; or
• the player was NBA MVP during one of the preceding three seasons.

[HurricaneKid]

We use all star starts and games when looking at HOF status and I believe making it still effects the $$$ people can make, though that might've been changed in the new CBA

6 year extensions (5 year extensions before the free agency season starts) worth in excess of 240M (48M/) are riding on these ASG selections.

HoF credentials ALWAYS include ASG selections.

If the ASG doesn't matter (and I haven't watched a full ASG in 15 years) then $, legacy, etc need to be removed from consideration as well. If it doesn't matter 1/4 BILLION DOLLAR DEALS shouldn't hinge on them. The fact that they do means that they obviously DO matter.

So? Why do you give a damn who is in the HoF or whether a guy will make 25 mln. or 30 mln. per year? I couldn't care less about that.

Why do we give a damn how many times a basketball player can throw a ball through a circle? Because we love the game.

I want the best players to get their due. Whether it is an extra pile of money or getting a massive contract a year earlier, it makes an enormous difference to the landscape of the entire league. It has nothing to do with the game to me. It has everything to do with recognition for the quality of play.

[Prius]

I don't know why this topic needed to be made. You give people the power to vote then they have the right to vote who they want unless they have a gun pointed at their head and told to vote only for the top 2 players in that position. Thousands of people voted for Harambe for the President of the U.S., NBA players voted for undeserving scrubs...who cares. It's all for show anyways so the league can rig the voting how they want and if people say the voting is rigged, they can point out the votes that are supposedly 100% accurate.

[SkyHookFTW]

And people are surprised at the vote? This is the country where 15,000 people woke up on election day, ate breakfast, cleaned themselves up, got dressed, and voted for a dead gorilla to become president.

[Bergmaniac]

6 year extensions (5 year extensions before the free agency season starts) worth in excess of 240M (48M/) are riding on these ASG selections.

HoF credentials ALWAYS include ASG selections.

If the ASG doesn't matter (and I haven't watched a full ASG in 15 years) then $, legacy, etc need to be removed from consideration as well. If it doesn't matter 1/4 BILLION DOLLAR DEALS shouldn't hinge on them. The fact that they do means that they obviously DO matter.

So? Why do you give a damn who is in the HoF or whether a guy will make 25 mln. or 30 mln. per year? I couldn't care less about that.

Why do we give a damn how many times a basketball player can throw a ball through a circle? Because we love the game.

I want the best players to get their due. Whether it is an extra pile of money or getting a massive contract a year earlier, it makes an enormous difference to the landscape of the entire league. It has nothing to do with the game to me. It has everything to do with recognition for the quality of play.

They are getting it. It's not like they voted some scrubs in. The players with most votes were all well deserving of it (except Kyrie IMO, but he's a great player too).

[ShazamDaShiznt]

People need to stop taking the All-Star game so seriously.

it's supposed to be a meaningless game, they will be jacking up three point shots once again


too bad it has become one of the measures in determining the legacy of a player. If a player has lots of accomplishments like all nba team selections, mvp's, or defensive player of the year, championship rings.....those all star game selections dont matter much. But to most of the ballers, who very rarely can get one of those achievements, asg appearance is like a badge that can be collected. Look for example at joe johnson's career, one all nba 3rd team selection, but 7 time all star. So if a casual fan in the future, who knows nothing about joe johnson, looks at his achievements he will picture him being a great player for at least 7 seasons. There is a reason why some players get mad when they don't get there. Fans love all that achievements shyt, most of them don't look at advanced stats and other things.

[HurricaneKid]

That was changed in new CBA, AS appearances don't matter anymore.

ASG starters do.

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q16

Young players can receive contracts worth > 30M more with 2 ASG starts and players can receive EARLY 5 year extensions with the same.

http://official.nba.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/4/2017/01/NBA-2017-CBA-Principal-Deal-Points.pdf

From January 19th, these are the only listed requirements now:

• the player was named to the All-NBA first, second, or third team, or was
named Defensive Player of the Year, in the immediately preceding
season or in two of the immediately preceding three seasons; or
• the player was NBA MVP during one of the preceding three seasons.

That is FAR more restrictive than it used to be. I'll have to shoot an email to Larry about updating his site...

[nickhx2]

I'd troll like my life depended on it if I were a player

it's only justice for what a joke asg is anyway

[HurricaneKid]

And people are surprised at the vote? This is the country where 15,000 people woke up on election day, ate breakfast, cleaned themselves up, got dressed, and voted for a dead gorilla to become president.

Some would argue 61M voted for the live one...

I hate the ASG. I MAY watch the highlights. I just want proper recognition to be doles out to deserving ballers. The fans proved to be too idiotic to entrust the process to so we included the players believing they would rectify the errors. I made this thread to show that the votes that were supposed to correct the fan errors were probably equally bad if not worse.

Almost 2/3 of the players didn't turn in a ballot with 2 of Westbrook/Harden/Curry/CP3 on it. I'm not even passing judgment on which two of them were clearly more deserving. Just that any reasonable ballot had to have SOME combination of them on it.

The next time I hear HoF credentials with ASG appearances I'm going to yank out my hair. And it ALWAYS comes up.