Political Roundtable Part XII

[AFM]

It's important to remind ourselves that popularity is an important virtue. It's how I know Transformers 2 is one of the best movies of the 21st century.

[Induveca]

It's important to remind ourselves that popularity is an important virtue. It's how I know Transformers 2 is one of the best movies of the 21st century.

[dckingsfan]

Obama had two freaking years with both Houses...so let's not act like he had a lot of time to turn things around. But fortunately, he did manage to bailout the auto industry, pass healthcare reform legislation (which US Presidents had talked about doing for more than half a century) and begin to clean up the economic mess that the Bush Administration left behind.

That's quite a record of accomplishment given that he had only two years before the Republican obstructionist took over both House of Congress.

Not sure that DC residents who voted for the Dems represent the "bureacracy." I'm guessing that the majority of so-called bureaucrats don't even live in the District.

I didn't like his stimulus, I think it was wasted. He could have "saved" the auto industry by simply fast-tracking bankruptcy, the ACA is soooo convoluted that no one understands it... and the "economic mess" was created by both Ds and Rs. Although he shouldn't take all of the blame, some of the blame for losing the senate, house and many governorships goes to him as well.

I guess I live in an alternate universe too

dckings, you're perfectly entitled to feel the way you do about the stimulus, Obamacare and the auto bailout. I just happen to think you're dead wrong on all accounts.

In either case, there's no disputing that the country--and the American auto industry--is in a much better place economically today than it was when Obama took office in 2009.

Fair enough. And what caused that real estate bubble in the first place. Kind of like the arsonist taking credit for calling in the fire department

BTW, it probably isn't fair that I am ONLY snipping at the things I didn't like about the Obama administration and not the good things. For example, I think his energy policy has been solid - maybe a bit of overreach but still going in the right direction. And in my mind, culturally he has been good for the country he has been dignified and graceful. Happy he was our president.

But on the economic side - the part that you are really citing - meh. He was fine - but not transformational - he just pushed the ball down the road for the next presidents. He didn't clean up the economic mess that is the federal government.

[DCZards]

The ex-president can take those memories with him into retirement. I'm looking forward to the massive shakeup which started today.

No more PC, no more ladies bathroom talk, discussions about actual problems which impact my bottom line.

Indu, I had to smile at this. If nothing else, you are consistent about what you care about most. You and Trump are clearly soulmates.

"Screw the people...how does my bottom line look?"

[dckingsfan]

One more thing I liked about Obama - his enforcement actions as a whole. Some of the enforcement actions were overly harsh but some were really good. I especially like the VW enforcement action. That was clearly criminal (in my mind).

I think the federal government as a prosecutor is highly effective. I think when the federal government gets in an active roll - that is when they get in trouble (see the housing bubble).

[Induveca]

The ex-president can take those memories with him into retirement. I'm looking forward to the massive shakeup which started today.

No more PC, no more ladies bathroom talk, discussions about actual problems which impact my bottom line.

Indu, I had to smile at this. If nothing else, you are consistent about what you care about most. You and Trump are clearly soulmates.

"Screw the people...how does my bottom line look?"

Damn right! I'm all about capitalism. And guess what? Get rid of some the ridiculous red tape which has creeped into business over the past 15-20 years and I could hire in America again!

Specifically I'd love to see some realistic reforms on the contractor vs employee mess. Attorneys love it, they make money on the hire and exit, sometimes years after the relationship has been severed.

I shouldn't have to bet 10k on a new employee with excessive legal documentation/training and initial salary. Especially when I can get equivalent work overseas with no legal risk (by hiring in countries with no legal IP recourse) for a fraction of that amount.

[verbal8]

I didn't like his stimulus, I think it was wasted. He could have "saved" the auto industry by simply fast-tracking bankruptcy, the ACA is soooo convoluted that no one understands it... and the "economic mess" was created by both Ds and Rs. Although he shouldn't take all of the blame, some of the blame for losing the senate, house and many governorships goes to him as well.

I guess I live in an alternate universe too

dckings, you're perfectly entitled to feel the way you do about the stimulus, Obamacare and the auto bailout. I just happen to think you're dead wrong on all accounts.

In either case, there's no disputing that the country--and the American auto industry--is in a much better place economically today than it was when Obama took office in 2009.

Fair enough. And what caused that real estate bubble in the first place. Kind of like the arsonist taking credit for calling in the fire department

If the government was the arsonist, it was George W. Bush. I think the bulk of the blame is on private sector greed. While the government programs loosened standards they were following the market vs. being the creators of the lose standards.

[Induveca]

Read on Twitter

Bye bye Obamacare. Wow that was quick.

http://m.imgur.com/pr59iyz.jpg

[dckingsfan]

dckings, you're perfectly entitled to feel the way you do about the stimulus, Obamacare and the auto bailout. I just happen to think you're dead wrong on all accounts.

In either case, there's no disputing that the country--and the American auto industry--is in a much better place economically today than it was when Obama took office in 2009.

Fair enough. And what caused that real estate bubble in the first place. Kind of like the arsonist taking credit for calling in the fire department

If the government was the arsonist, it was George W. Bush. I think the bulk of the blame is on private sector greed. While the government programs loosened standards they were following the market vs. being the creators of the lose standards.

I think we had this debate. It was the perfect harmony of the government policy, looking the other way instead of inspecting/enforcing and private sector greed.

But there is no chicken and egg on this one. Without the Government policies - that bubble never happens. And those policies didn't come from the Bush Administration. The meltdown is rooted in federal policies, most of which were designed to boost the number of home mortgages. I think this book does a pretty good job of explaining it: Hidden in Plain Sight: What Really Caused the World’s Worst Financial Crisis and Why It Could Happen Again.

I would like to blame Bush - he didn't do anything to help - but he wasn't the root cause. Bush continued Clinton's push to continued to pressure Fannie and Freddie to increase affordable housing purchases. But that pressure was a continuation of The Housing and Community Development Act of 1992. So, we had R & D controlled congress and D & R administrations as the problem ramped up.

Congress, IMO, with the policies they enacted were the arsonists.

[TGW]

The ex-president can take those memories with him into retirement. I'm looking forward to the massive shakeup which started today.

No more PC, no more ladies bathroom talk, discussions about actual problems which impact my bottom line.

Indu, I had to smile at this. If nothing else, you are consistent about what you care about most. You and Trump are clearly soulmates.

"Screw the people...how does my bottom line look?"

I would say Induveca is unpatriotic and un-American for his views, but he's not even American. I'm not shocked.

[Induveca]

The ex-president can take those memories with him into retirement. I'm looking forward to the massive shakeup which started today.

No more PC, no more ladies bathroom talk, discussions about actual problems which impact my bottom line.

Indu, I had to smile at this. If nothing else, you are consistent about what you care about most. You and Trump are clearly soulmates.

"Screw the people...how does my bottom line look?"

I would say Induveca is unpatriotic and un-American for his views, but he's not even American. I'm not shocked.

Actually, dual citizen. Wanting to hear about decreasing debt, increasing revenue and improving the US business climate vs LGBT bathroom preference seems pretty logical.

Which "problem" impacts my ability to support my immediate and extended family?

I'be grown sick of fringe topics dominating the news through "narrative" identity stories as the large/obvious financial issues are continually ignored.

[popper]

The ex-president can take those memories with him into retirement. I'm looking forward to the massive shakeup which started today.

No more PC, no more ladies bathroom talk, discussions about actual problems which impact my bottom line.

Indu, I had to smile at this. If nothing else, you are consistent about what you care about most. You and Trump are clearly soulmates.

"Screw the people...how does my bottom line look?"

I would say Induveca is unpatriotic and un-American for his views, but he's not even American. I'm not shocked.

I would say Induveca is uniquely American and a person I respect here. What I want most is to find common ground with you TGW so we can stand together for our country. What exactly is your beef? Lay it out. You're among friends and your opinions are important.

[TGW]

Indu, I had to smile at this. If nothing else, you are consistent about what you care about most. You and Trump are clearly soulmates.

"Screw the people...how does my bottom line look?"

I would say Induveca is unpatriotic and un-American for his views, but he's not even American. I'm not shocked.

I would say Induveca is uniquely American and a person I respect here. What I want most is to find common ground with you TGW so we can stand together for our country. What exactly is your beef? Lay it out. You're among friends and your opinions are important.

I call out B.S., whether it's liberal or conservative. I'm noticing that several posters are just so tone-deaf in the support of their candidate/party/belief system. I also happen to find that the conservatives on this board to be the most egregious when it comes to that. The left-leaning posters here are mild, and although I don't agree with them all the time, I find them pretty reasonable. OTOH some of the righties are just ridiculous. For example, just pointing out that Obama is more popular and had way more people at his inauguration than Trump (which is a fact) drew anger and dismissal of the notion.

Even though I am not a huge fan of Obama nor the democrats in general (actually I despise the Democratic party), I almost always find myself having to defend them because of the sheer amount of regurgitated fox news talking points from the conservatives here. Maybe some of you guys need to broaden your news sources.

[popper]

I would say Induveca is unpatriotic and un-American for his views, but he's not even American. I'm not shocked.

I would say Induveca is uniquely American and a person I respect here. What I want most is to find common ground with you TGW so we can stand together for our country. What exactly is your beef? Lay it out. You're among friends and your opinions are important.

I call out B.S., whether it's liberal or conservative. I'm noticing that several posters are just so tone-deaf in the support of their candidate/party/belief system. I also happen to find that the conservatives on this board to be the most egregious when it comes to that. The left-leaning posters here are mild, and although I don't agree with them all the time, I find them pretty reasonable. OTOH some of the righties are just ridiculous. For example, just pointing out that Obama is more popular and had way more people at his inauguration than Trump (which is a fact) drew anger and dismissal of the notion.

Even though I am not a huge fan of Obama nor the democrats in general (actually I despise the Democratic party), I almost always find myself having to defend them because of the sheer amount of regurgitated fox news talking points from the conservatives here. Maybe some of you guys need to broaden your news sources.

Thank you brother. I just wanted to hear it like you feel it.

[DCZards]

Read on Twitter

Bye bye Obamacare. Wow that was quick.

http://m.imgur.com/pr59iyz.jpg

Indu, I refuse to believe you're naive enough to believe that Obamacare is gone that easily. Most Americans like the essential elements of the law...and many of us will still be covered by it when we go to the doctor or hospital next week. The law is too deeply embedded in our healthcare system to just simply go away.

The Repubs will try to tweak/change Obamacare (we all want to see the law improved) and they will try to call it something else. But the core principles of Obamacre are here to stay. Thanks #44.

[montestewart]

Read on Twitter

Bye bye Obamacare. Wow that was quick.

http://m.imgur.com/pr59iyz.jpg

Indu, I refuse to believe you're naive enough to believe that Obamacare is gone that easily. Most Americans like the essential elements of the law...and many of us will still be covered by it when we go to the doctor or hospital next week. The law is too deeply embedded in our healthcare system to just simply go away.

The Repubs will try to tweak/change Obamacare (we all want to see the law improved) and they will try to call it something else. But the core principles of Obamacre are here to stay. Thanks #44.

Does an end to Obamacare mean that all the people insured through exchanges are no longer insured? Will those kicked off not be covered for what could be reframed as "preexisting conditions"? With the end of Obamacare, will insurers lower premiums, since they blamed the rising costs of insurance on Obamacare? If they get rid of Obamacare, will they still keep ACA, which is much more popular among Trump supporters?

My guess is they'll repackage Obamacare as Trump Whole Life or similar (John Hillerman or Dabney Coleman can do the commercials). I know he's slapping his name on something.

[FAH1223]

Yes it's a historic. One of the most popular political figures in American history is about to be replaced by one of the least popular political figures in American history.

A sad day for the American political landscape, but it's okay. Trump only has four years to do his damage before progressives come in in 2020 and clean up the cesspool in Washington.

Umm. Progressives have been running DC for years. in 2008 Obama had the presidency and both houses. The bureaucracy is clearly progressive (96% of DC residents voted for the Democrat candidate). If it takes a progressive to "clean up the cesspool", why hasn't it happened yet?

He meant the grassroots progressives not the establishment neoliberal centrists such as the Clintonites who have run the Democrats for 25 years. There's a civil war in the Democratic Party... can the grassroots launch a coup ala the Tea Party in 2010 to the GOP...?

Obama had two freaking years with both Houses...so let's not act like he had a lot of time to turn things around. But fortunately, he did manage to bailout the auto industry, pass healthcare reform legislation (which US Presidents had talked about doing for more than half a century) and begin to clean up the economic mess that the Bush Administration left behind.

That's quite a record of accomplishment given that he had only two years before the Republican obstructionist took over both House of Congress.

Not sure that DC residents who voted for the Dems represent the "bureacracy." I'm guessing that the majority of so-called bureaucrats don't even live in the District.

Obama had a Democratic Senate until 2015. The House went Republican starting in 2011.

[Induveca]

Read on Twitter

Bye bye Obamacare. Wow that was quick.

http://m.imgur.com/pr59iyz.jpg

Indu, I refuse to believe you're naive enough to believe that Obamacare is gone that easily. Most Americans like the essential elements of the law...and many of us will still be covered by it when we go to the doctor or hospital next week. The law is too deeply embedded in our healthcare system to just simply go away.

The Repubs will try to tweak/change Obamacare (we all want to see the law improved) and they will try to call it something else. But the core principles of Obamacre are here to stay. Thanks #44.

Of course not, but I do want at least one major change.....nationwide competition not state based exchanges. Currently if I used Obamacare I have one choice at over 1k/month, and could only use it in one state.

I've watch my options go from dozens of nationwide plans with reasonable deductibles to one local-only plan with a neat 10k deductible since its inception. It's a broken, dysfunctional system built mostly on hope vs reality.

[JWizmentality]

Women's march baby yeah!!

Sent from my ASUS_Z01BDC using Tapatalk

[verbal8]

Women's march baby yeah!!

Sent from my ASUS_Z01BDC using Tapatalk

I guess Trump is finally causing huge crowds.