2017 OKC Thunder Trade Discussion

itzmrgigglez · Post #21 » by **itzmrgigglez** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 6:47 am

bondom34 wrote:Yeah, there's no reason to trade Russ. If you do that you have to trade everything and everyone.

Remember, this team is young.

No if you trade Russ, there would be no need to trade everyone else. Of course singler, kanter and Payne would be considered to trade.

The picks coming back in a supposed trade would just add to our un-ending youth movement

Post #22 » by **bondom34** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 6:49 am

itzmrgigglez wrote:
bondom34 wrote:Yeah, there's no reason to trade Russ. If you do that you have to trade everything and everyone.

Remember, this team is young.

No if you trade Russ, there would be no need to trade everyone else. Of course singler, kanter and Payne would be considered to trade.

The picks coming back in a supposed trade would just add to our un-ending youth movement

If you trade Russ, you don't have a number one option. By the time you draft that number one option, Adams, Kanter, and Dipo are past their prime when that guy is ready to compete. Rinse, repeat.

Kizz Fastfists · Post #23 » by **Kizz Fastfists** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 7:11 am

bondom34 wrote:If you trade Russ, you don't have a number one option. By the time you draft that number one option, Adams, Kanter, and Dipo are past their prime when that guy is ready to compete. Rinse, repeat.

I disagree with this very much. It depends on what you get for Russ, but given Presti's draft history and the quality of drafts this year and next there is a chance to trade Russ and replace both him and kd over the next two drafts. Then we assume two years before they make the playoffs and three before they are actually contenders. OKC made the playoffs in Russ' second season and the Finals in his fourth without the quality of the current pieces on the team, specifically Oladipo and Adams. So a top pick in 2017, via Russ trade, a top pick in 2018, which would be the Thunder's pick and another potential solid pick from the Russ trade. Throw in two years and OKC is back in the playoffs in '19-'20 with a chance to be legitimate contenders again in '22-'23 when Oladipo will be 30 and Adams 29 as the veterans still in their prime. Abrines will also be 29 and Kanter, who I wouldn't expect to still be here, 30. Sabonis would be 26 and Roberson would be the old man on the team at 31.

Now, I would also trade Oladipo to completely bottom out and the return should be good. I would not trade Adams.It would basically be a repeat of Presti's first build with more assets and an established center in Adams so there is no chasing down a Perkins.

Russ said about the all-star snub that he plays for championships. Do you think he sees one in his future if he stays with OKC? If he doesn't then either he is gone after next year or he isn't that interested in championships. Russ should be traded two weeks to Boston for Brown, Brooklyn's 2017 pick and other picks. Philly would be a great landing spot for Oladipo. Taking the LA pick and Okafor. Then trade Kanter for whatever they can get. Okafor becomes your new Kanter at a much cheaper price. Presti gets to work his magic in this year's draft, which is the best in a decade or so, and next year which is going to be another good draft class. Presti also would have his big men mostly in place with Adams, Okafor and Sabonis and could focus on a PG and wings which is where his drafting has been it's best. He'll have a window to chase another max FA by dumping the salary of Russ, Oladipo and Kanter right before the young guys get off their rookie contract. Which if they develop at the rate they did the first time around should make an attractive landing spot for a veteran FA to come help put them over the top.

Post #24 » by **bondom34** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 7:15 am

Kizz Fastfists wrote:
bondom34 wrote:If you trade Russ, you don't have a number one option. By the time you draft that number one option, Adams, Kanter, and Dipo are past their prime when that guy is ready to compete. Rinse, repeat.

I disagree with this very much. It depends on what you get for Russ, but given Presti's draft history and the quality of drafts this year and next there is a chance to trade Russ and replace both him and kd over the next two drafts. Then we assume two years before they make the playoffs and three before they are actually contenders. OKC made the playoffs in Russ' second season and the Finals in his fourth without the quality of the current pieces on the team, specifically Oladipo and Adams. So a top pick in 2017, via Russ trade, a top pick in 2018, which would be the Thunder's pick and another potential solid pick from the Russ trade. Throw in two years and OKC is back in the playoffs in '19-'20 with a chance to be legitimate contenders again in '22-'23 when Oladipo will be 30 and Adams 29 as the veterans still in their prime. Abrines will also be 29 and Kanter, who I wouldn't expect to still be here, 30. Sabonis would be 26 and Roberson would be the old man on the team at 31.

Now, I would also trade Oladipo to completely bottom out and the return should be good. I would not trade Adams.It would basically be a repeat of Presti's first build with more assets and an established center in Adams so there is no chasing down a Perkins.

Russ said about the all-star snub that he plays for championships. Do you think he sees one in his future if he stays with OKC? If he doesn't then either he is gone after next year or he isn't that interested in championships. Russ should be traded two weeks to Boston for Brown, Brooklyn's 2017 pick and other picks. Philly would be a great landing spot for Oladipo. Taking the LA pick and Okafor. Then trade Kanter for whatever they can get. Okafor becomes your new Kanter at a much cheaper price. Presti gets to work his magic in this year's draft, which is the best in a decade or so, and next year which is going to be another good draft class. Presti also would have his big men mostly in place with Adams, Okafor and Sabonis and could focus on a PG and wings which is where his drafting has been it's best. He'll have a window to chase another max FA by dumping the salary of Russ, Oladipo and Kanter right before the young guys get off their rookie contract. Which if they develop at the rate they did the first time around should make an attractive landing spot for a veteran FA to come help put them over the top.

People realize the entire amount of times a team has had 3 consecutive drafts like Presti had right? Its one time. You bottom out, you stay bad.

And Russ also said he never saw himself leaving OKC. He said in the past what he cares about is winning and wants to stay. If they build this team, he wants to stay.

Has anyone seen him say he wants to leave? Its ludicrous to trade him. If Presti does, he deserves to be fired on the spot.

Edit: And Russ isn't turning down that much money, nobody's that dumb.

Pillendreher · Post #25 » by **Pillendreher** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 10:45 am

I liked what I read about tanking on the Magic board yesterday. Tanking basically comes down to sucking long enough until you hit at least once. Look at all those crap teams over the past 5ish years. You don't get a guaranteed top 15 player every time you draft in the Top 5. Hell, multiple 'stars' in this league didn't even get drafted that early. Butler 30th, Leonard 15th, George 10th, etc. Most of the Top 10 picks each year haven't been all that great.

Now of course Presti is one the best drafters this league has ever seen, but still. The T'Wolves could be great, but they could also have gotten a better version of Rudy Gay and a 6th man in Lavine. The Nuggets have Jokic, but other than that....The Magic basically have nothing. The Suns have a bunch of kids who could end up busts, but who could also be good. The 76ers wasted a massive amount of picks. They might have hit gold with Embiid, but they're still miles away from actually doing something.

I just don't think that there's actual merit to this whole strategy. You're basically wasting several years of your franchise to play the percentages and hope to hit at least once in the draft.

------------------------

What we need is to hit on a SF. Unless Presti can fleece another team, it has to come via the draft or via grabbing projects and hoping one of them evolves into a good player.

Kizz Fastfists · Post #26 » by **Kizz Fastfists** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 11:45 am

The key is to have the draft picks in the right draft. While a lot of that can be attributed to luck Presti did get that part right. This year would be a great draft to have two top 10 picks in. Philly is going to come out completely loaded after this draft if the Lakers pick ends up out of the top 3 and they get two of the top 7 drafts in a draft that is loaded with 2 superstars, 6-8 potential all-stars and another 4-6 good starters. That is a SIXTEEN player draft!!! Then you have another 5 or so guys that project as solid rotation guys. I don't recall a draft this deep.

Pillendreher · Post #27 » by **Pillendreher** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 11:58 am

Kizz Fastfists wrote:The key is to have the draft picks in the right draft. While a lot of that can be attributed to luck Presti did get that part right. This year would be a great draft to have two top 10 picks in. Philly is going to come out completely loaded after this draft if the Lakers pick ends up out of the top 3 and they get two of the top 7 drafts in a draft that is loaded with 2 superstars, 6-8 potential all-stars and another 4-6 good starters. That is a SIXTEEN player draft!!! Then you have another 5 or so guys that project as solid rotation guys. I don't recall a draft this deep.

We'll see. Every draft is always supposed to be this and that. In the end, it comes to down to so many different factors with luck being the biggest one.

If Presti wants to trade up, he'll do it. I doubt that we can waste another 3 or 4 years of Russ just to develop players tho.

thor19 · Post #28 » by **thor19** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 4:29 pm

Maybe this year we can sign some free agents, in the past other free agent see that we have kd, ibaka and westbrook and think that they would be bench players and have no playing time, maybe this year everyone will see that westbrook is a good player and is making his team better with no shooters. Maybe other free agent want to be part of this team and see that their life will be better in the offensive side having teams focusing in westbrook. They say okc offense was only insolation for kd and westbrook this year the ball have moved a lot better maybe that will help

Post #29 » by **ThunderBolt** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 7:19 pm

thor19 wrote:Maybe this year we can sign some free agents, in the past other free agent see that we have kd, ibaka and westbrook and think that they would be bench players and have no playing time, maybe this year everyone will see that westbrook is a good player and is making his team better with no shooters. Maybe other free agent want to be part of this team and see that their life will be better in the offensive side having teams focusing in westbrook. They say okc offense was only insolation for kd and westbrook this year the ball have moved a lot better maybe that will help

We can hope, right? The reality is Presti can't wait on a bunch of "maybes"' to happen. I'm not saying trade RW next week, but I don't see how this team can become a contender if they keep RW without a bunch of "maybes" happening.

Post #30 » by **bondom34** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 7:32 pm

Knrstz wrote:
thor19 wrote:Maybe this year we can sign some free agents, in the past other free agent see that we have kd, ibaka and westbrook and think that they would be bench players and have no playing time, maybe this year everyone will see that westbrook is a good player and is making his team better with no shooters. Maybe other free agent want to be part of this team and see that their life will be better in the offensive side having teams focusing in westbrook. They say okc offense was only insolation for kd and westbrook this year the ball have moved a lot better maybe that will help

We can hope, right? The reality is Presti can't wait on a bunch of "maybes"' to happen. I'm not saying trade RW next week, but I don't see how this team can become a contender if they keep RW without a bunch of "maybes" happening.

Needs a lot more maybes if you trade him.

And sometimes, you just won't be a contender. This team will likely never be as good as it was. Looking at it, there's not much a rational case to do so, you put the team back a decade and other than a miracle have no path back.

thor19 · Post #31 » by **thor19** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 7:40 pm

What can we do trade RW and get draft pick hoping their are the next kobe and MJ and not some bust, or wait and see this trade deadline and next free agency what can we do. We have a superstar in RW, 2 good player in adams and oladipo, a good bench scorer in kanter , sabonis and abrines look well. We can't be so negative about this team , yes we lost one of the top 5 player and yes other teams get better but we already have a superstar others team don't have that. Houston have harden and good cast, for some people conley and gasol are star not superstar, for a lot of people they dont see that the Jazz have a superstar, we are step ahead from a lot of teams, we need to fill the team with pieces that complete westbrook, via trade, free agency or draft. The two things we can't do is sit and stay with the same holes in position and get in panic mode.

Pillendreher · Post #32 » by **Pillendreher** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 8:09 pm

thor19 wrote:Maybe this year we can sign some free agents, in the past other free agent see that we have kd, ibaka and westbrook and think that they would be bench players and have no playing time, maybe this year everyone will see that westbrook is a good player and is making his team better with no shooters. Maybe other free agent want to be part of this team and see that their life will be better in the offensive side having teams focusing in westbrook. They say okc offense was only insolation for kd and westbrook this year the ball have moved a lot better maybe that will help

Doubtful we'll be a player in free agency. As of right now, we have $ 80 million guaranteed for Russ, Dipo, Adams, Abrines and Sabonis. With a projected cap at $ 103 million, we have $ 23 million left to fill 10 roster spots and get a big FA signing. Not happening.

The only ways for us to improve is through the draft or via trade. We'd be able to take in a huge amount of money this season by using the capspace the Ilyasova deal freed up and Kanter's contract, but what kind of player is a good target if his team would be willing to dump him and his +20 million contract? Melo comes to mind, but I don't see any chance of that happening.

Sign and trade is a possibility, but it's doubtful, especially with multiple teams having max capspace next summer. It'd be a guy who's only willing to sign with us. Who's that gonna be?

Kizz Fastfists · Post #33 » by **Kizz Fastfists** » Sun Jan 22, 2017 12:19 am

thor19 wrote:Maybe this year we can sign some free agents, in the past other free agent see that we have kd, ibaka and westbrook and think that they would be bench players and have no playing time, maybe this year everyone will see that westbrook is a good player and is making his team better with no shooters. Maybe other free agent want to be part of this team and see that their life will be better in the offensive side having teams focusing in westbrook. They say okc offense was only insolation for kd and westbrook this year the ball have moved a lot better maybe that will help

What FA do you think they can sign with no cap room? The only way they can sign a FA is if they get rid of two of Kanter, Adams, Oladipo and Russ. They are already over the cap for next year with those 4 and Abrines, Sabonis, Payne, Singler, Grant and Huestis. They will be very close to the luxury tax after resigning Lauvergne and Roberson and adding their rookie.

They have no way to improve the team except through trade and they have nothing to trade for a player that would make a difference. It doesn't get any better the next off-season where they will only have cap room if Russ and Kanter both leave. There is no improvement from FA. There is either remain in purgatory or blow it up and try to rebuild.

Post #34 » by **bondom34** » Sun Jan 22, 2017 12:30 am

Kizz Fastfists wrote:
thor19 wrote:Maybe this year we can sign some free agents, in the past other free agent see that we have kd, ibaka and westbrook and think that they would be bench players and have no playing time, maybe this year everyone will see that westbrook is a good player and is making his team better with no shooters. Maybe other free agent want to be part of this team and see that their life will be better in the offensive side having teams focusing in westbrook. They say okc offense was only insolation for kd and westbrook this year the ball have moved a lot better maybe that will help

What FA do you think they can sign with no cap room? The only way they can sign a FA is if they get rid of two of Kanter, Adams, Oladipo and Russ. They are already over the cap for next year with those 4 and Abrines, Sabonis, Payne, Singler, Grant and Huestis. They will be very close to the luxury tax after resigning Lauvergne and Roberson and adding their rookie.

They have no way to improve the team except through trade and they have nothing to trade for a player that would make a difference. It doesn't get any better the next off-season where they will only have cap room if Russ and Kanter both leave. There is no improvement from FA. There is either remain in purgatory or blow it up and try to rebuild.

Dipo, Kanter, and any youth can be traded. Holy crap people think this is purgatory.

I'm sorry but this is just really tired at this point, there are a lot of ways to improve and blowing it up isn't even an option. Its amazing anyone would think it given 20-25 teams minimum would kill to be in OKC's situation.

Go to other team boards and see what they think. Because that would suck. This team is the 2nd youngest in the league with a lot of talent and a superstar. Nah but trade it so they suck for 10 years. Good times.

Post #35 » by **bondom34** » Sun Jan 22, 2017 12:32 am

This fanbase can't take a freakin 3 game losing streak.

You know how many teams in history would kill to be a consistent playoff team with a shot? A lot.

You know how many have ever drafted 3 MVP candidates in a row? 1. Its not happening again. Oh and all the crappy tanking teams? Most have been crappy for 10 years. This tank or title mentality is weird to me. Sorry for going off a bit, but it is crazy talk. Ask Suns fans, Magic fans, Kings fans, Blazers fans, Mavs fans, Houston fans, Memphis fans, go for it.

Osirus89 · Post #36 » by **Osirus89** » Sun Jan 22, 2017 1:06 am

bondom34 wrote:Dipo, Kanter, and any youth can be traded. Holy crap people think this is purgatory.

I'm sorry but this is just really tired at this point, there are a lot of ways to improve and blowing it up isn't even an option. Its amazing anyone would think it given 20-25 teams minimum would kill to be in OKC's situation.

Go to other team boards and see what they think. Because that would suck. This team is the 2nd youngest in the league with a lot of talent and a superstar. Nah but trade it so they suck for 10 years. Good times.

This 100%. I don't know why there is this feeling that there is no flexibility with this roster. People can be moved if it came to that and you never know how things will play out. You never know what might happen. This team is not that far away from being good. If Domas improves the same way that Steven adams did (which I think he will), we are only a solid wing away from being a very good team in the near future. Imagine if this team got a Gallinari type (just an example) ... the team would be pretty legit. Not warriors level, but very legit. They talked about this in the recent Thunder buddies podcast. It doesn't have to be an all star level player. Just a player that is not a negative on the either end of the floor.

Kizz Fastfists wrote:
thor19 wrote:Maybe this year we can sign some free agents, in the past other free agent see that we have kd, ibaka and westbrook and think that they would be bench players and have no playing time, maybe this year everyone will see that westbrook is a good player and is making his team better with no shooters. Maybe other free agent want to be part of this team and see that their life will be better in the offensive side having teams focusing in westbrook. They say okc offense was only insolation for kd and westbrook this year the ball have moved a lot better maybe that will help

What FA do you think they can sign with no cap room? The only way they can sign a FA is if they get rid of two of Kanter, Adams, Oladipo and Russ. They are already over the cap for next year with those 4 and Abrines, Sabonis, Payne, Singler, Grant and Huestis. They will be very close to the luxury tax after resigning Lauvergne and Roberson and adding their rookie.

They have no way to improve the team except through trade and they have nothing to trade for a player that would make a difference. It doesn't get any better the next off-season where they will only have cap room if Russ and Kanter both leave. There is no improvement from FA. There is either remain in purgatory or blow it up and try to rebuild.

I think we may have had a bit too high of expectations coming off of last year. Truth be told the Thunder overachieved last year. I'll be honest and say that I didn't see them making it past San Antonio last year, much less the Warriors. However, they surprised everyone and came close to making the finals. I think their flaws caught up with them though. I actually think its possible for this team to eventually be better than the one last year. Last years team had 2 great players and almost nothing else. Adams wasn't ready yet and Serge was starting to decline. Dion waiters was the 6th man for goodness sake. If this team is built with a superstar and a great supporting cast I think it can be an even better team than it was. Abrines is already better than Morrow and he is a rookie. Victor is the best shooting guard this team has had since Harden was here, and Domantas will be a very good player as he develops. The path to being really good has been covered and I think is very simple. Get a wing player that can score the ball at a decent rate, and doesn't get torched on the defensive end. Like a taller Oladipo basically. It's hard to know who all is out there since the OKC front office is so damned tight lipped about trade targets, but that is the blueprint. Whether that is a drafted player, or a player through trade remains to be seen.

Also don't assume Roberson is coming back. For cheap maybe, but if he for whatever reason gets a bad deal, he should be shown the door.

thor19 · Post #37 » by **thor19** » Sun Jan 22, 2017 3:40 am

That is what I am saying this team is a lot step ahead from others team, also this was kd and Rw team , it was for that two players, now we only have Rw obviously we have some holes but we can't enter in panic mode and hit the reset. Also westbrook was loyal and stay we can't just trade hin unless he tell you to trade him.

spearsy23 · Post #38 » by **spearsy23** » Sun Jan 22, 2017 7:03 am

Kizz Fastfists wrote:The key is to have the draft picks in the right draft. While a lot of that can be attributed to luck Presti did get that part right. This year would be a great draft to have two top 10 picks in. Philly is going to come out completely loaded after this draft if the Lakers pick ends up out of the top 3 and they get two of the top 7 drafts in a draft that is loaded with 2 superstars, 6-8 potential all-stars and another 4-6 good starters. That is a SIXTEEN player draft!!! Then you have another 5 or so guys that project as solid rotation guys. I don't recall a draft this deep.

If Philly is going to be that loaded then what's the point in trading Russ and tanking when we won't be able to beat them?

spearsy23 · Post #39 » by **spearsy23** » Sun Jan 22, 2017 7:07 am

bondom34 wrote:This fanbase can't take a freakin 3 game losing streak.

You know how many teams in history would kill to be a consistent playoff team with a shot? A lot.

You know how many have ever drafted 3 MVP candidates in a row? 1. Its not happening again. Oh and all the crappy tanking teams? Most have been crappy for 10 years. This tank or title mentality is weird to me. Sorry for going off a bit, but it is crazy talk. Ask Suns fans, Magic fans, Kings fans, Blazers fans, Mavs fans, Houston fans, Memphis fans, go for it.

To be fair Kizz has wanted to tank since day one, the three game losing streak is unrelated.

Post #40 » by **bondom34** » Sun Jan 22, 2017 7:41 am

spearsy23 wrote:
bondom34 wrote:This fanbase can't take a freakin 3 game losing streak.

You know how many teams in history would kill to be a consistent playoff team with a shot? A lot.

You know how many have ever drafted 3 MVP candidates in a row? 1. Its not happening again. Oh and all the crappy tanking teams? Most have been crappy for 10 years. This tank or title mentality is weird to me. Sorry for going off a bit, but it is crazy talk. Ask Suns fans, Magic fans, Kings fans, Blazers fans, Mavs fans, Houston fans, Memphis fans, go for it.

To be fair Kizz has wanted to tank since day one, the three game losing streak is unrelated.

Yeah that wasn't directed so much at him but in general it seems like there's flip from "find a tweak" to "blow it up" depending on the last game :lol: