2017 OKC Thunder Trade Discussion

[Pillendreher]

Truth be told the Thunder overachieved last year.

That I strongly disagree with. If anything, we were underachieving. Our starting 5's NetRtG was + 17.8. That's very, very good. We were clearly better than 55 wins. The main problem was that our bench was just terrible. Take Russ out and we were done.

[bondom34]

Yeah, agree w/ Pillendreher, last year's pythag wins were like 59 iirc. Donovan putzed w/ the lineups for the first like 3 months.

[Osirus89]

Truth be told the Thunder overachieved last year.

That I strongly disagree with. If anything, we were underachieving. Our starting 5's NetRtG was + 17.8. That's very, very good. We were clearly better than 55 wins. The main problem was that our bench was just terrible. Take Russ out and we were done.

I guess I should have elaborated a bit more on what I meant. I couldn't agree more in regards to them playing below their level during the regular season. Between the bad 4th quarter collapses and some sporadic bad defensive stretches, there were plenty of head scratching issues. I moreso meant in the playoffs. After how they played during the regular season, I didn't think they had it in them to get their act together when they played elite teams in the playoffs. Especially after they got demolished in game 1 of the San Antonio series. They completely turned it around and surprised the hell out of me to beat SA 4-2. Then they had to go against the 73-9 Warriors that had swept them in the season series. There were some close games but always an L in the end. We know how that series turned out, but I was very surprised how close we came to beating GS. I think they overachieved against the Warriors to start off the series. Blowing that team out twice in a row with everyone playing well was crazy. However, Andre went back to his usual self and Russ/KD didn't play their best down the stretch. They finally came back to earth at the worst possible time. I don't think they were ever at GS level with both teams at their best, but they came almost pulled it off.

[Pillendreher]

Once again, I disagree. Take both teams at their best and we're better. Russ and Durant are better players than anybody on the Warriors. Always have been.

[Kizz Fastfists]

To be fair Kizz has wanted to tank since day one, the three game losing streak is unrelated.

Yeah that wasn't directed so much at him but in general it seems like there's flip from "find a tweak" to "blow it up" depending on the last game

This what makes a lot of fans frustrating is they are too effected by a small sample. I see a big picture and try to stick with it unless there is evidence that my initial evaluation was wrong. I have felt the best course of action was to trade Russ and rebuild since the FA backstabbing. Without that backstabbing OKC would still be a top 3 team in the NBA and there is no way anyone is saying to blow it up. Given the loss of a top 5 player took OKC from contender to pretender. I don't blame the front office or anyone in the organization for an FA leaving. I do judge them on how they react to it and so far I'm on the fence. Either the expansions were given to maximize future trade value, since it is very hard to trade poison pill contracts, and long-term players can have more value than pending RFAs or it was done to keep this group together and be a first round playoff exit for the next few years.

It would take a massive off-season to get me to even think of changing my mind for a moment. I can't see anything, realistic, that gets OKC back to being a contender. I also know that the big picture I see isn't the only one and there can always be things happen that I didn't see coming. There are a few different options that all make sense if you believe they can be executed. I just don't see moving multiple of Oladipo, Kanter, Adams, Sabonis and Abrines for things that can upgrade the roster and push OKC back to being a contender as a realistic option.

We have differing opinions, but I do understand the idea of reshaping the roster around Russ. While I don't think it is realistic I certainly understand wanting to wait and see if Presti can do something in this off-season to drastically reshape the roster. I support the blow it up method, but I will fully admit that there is risk involved there and that the find some tweaks people are not idiots. They are just people who believe in a different approach than I do.

[bondom34]

To be fair Kizz has wanted to tank since day one, the three game losing streak is unrelated.

Yeah that wasn't directed so much at him but in general it seems like there's flip from "find a tweak" to "blow it up" depending on the last game

This what makes a lot of fans frustrating is they are too effected by a small sample. I see a big picture and try to stick with it unless there is evidence that my initial evaluation was wrong. I have felt the best course of action was to trade Russ and rebuild since the FA backstabbing. Without that backstabbing OKC would still be a top 3 team in the NBA and there is no way anyone is saying to blow it up. Given the loss of a top 5 player took OKC from contender to pretender. I don't blame the front office or anyone in the organization for an FA leaving. I do judge them on how they react to it and so far I'm on the fence. Either the expansions were given to maximize future trade value, since it is very hard to trade poison pill contracts, and long-term players can have more value than pending RFAs or it was done to keep this group together and be a first round playoff exit for the next few years.

It would take a massive off-season to get me to even think of changing my mind for a moment. I can't see anything, realistic, that gets OKC back to being a contender. I also know that the big picture I see isn't the only one and there can always be things happen that I didn't see coming. There are a few different options that all make sense if you believe they can be executed. I just don't see moving multiple of Oladipo, Kanter, Adams, Sabonis and Abrines for things that can upgrade the roster and push OKC back to being a contender as a realistic option.

We have differing opinions, but I do understand the idea of reshaping the roster around Russ. While I don't think it is realistic I certainly understand wanting to wait and see if Presti can do something in this off-season to drastically reshape the roster. I support the blow it up method, but I will fully admit that there is risk involved there and that the find some tweaks people are not idiots. They are just people who believe in a different approach than I do.

Fair from your POV, and you have been consistent, I just vehemently disagree . My hangups are never getting a guy this good again, being irrelevant for years, and that there is value in being good for a long time. Eventually free agents will be willing to come, but not to a loser.

Also, if your rebuild is via draft, you have to not only knock the picks out, but those guys have to fit perfectly and want to stay. Presti nailed 3 drafts and guys didn't want to stick.

I think if they blow it up (at this point they won't), they're likely bad for a long time. Plus, Russ actually likes it, and having a superstar like that is incredible. Something Thunder fans may never see again. Also blowing it up hasn't ever worked, for anyone. Its the least likely way to be a contender, nobody's ever blown up a good team and gotten to a title that way. Sure its fun to watch young guys grow up, but they likely never win a ring. This team has those guys and is already a mid tier playoff team. They're younger than anyone but Minny. You can't beat that.

I also see a ton of potential in the youth on the roster w/o a trade even and a possible conference finals level team in a few years. If you can make it that far, you're an injury away from the finals. Memphis has done it well for years, and though they've never won I think they're a great success. I don't think there is a thing wrong with being a very very good team.

Oh and tbh I've found this season far more fun than the last few. I enjoy the players and development and really think they're very very good. I listed them a while back but wouldn't swap places with more than a handful of teams today.

If you do want to blow it up, how many teams shouldn't blow it up at this point, maybe 3-4?

[bondom34]

Oh, and I've realized over the years, Prestis' always got a plan. I'm sure Russ knows too,

[Pillendreher]

We could make the WCF even this season. All you need is a little luck. Look at the 2015 Rockets.

[bondom34]

We could make the WCF even this season. All you need is a little luck. Look at the 2015 Rockets.

Yep, agreed. And then maybe a FA looks and is suddenly interested.

[Pillendreher]

We could make the WCF even this season. All you need is a little luck. Look at the 2015 Rockets.

Yep, agreed. And then maybe a FA looks and is suddenly interested.

Dipo and Sabonis have to become way more aggressive in the 2nd half of the season for that to happen.

[InTheSabonus]

Yeah that wasn't directed so much at him but in general it seems like there's flip from "find a tweak" to "blow it up" depending on the last game

This what makes a lot of fans frustrating is they are too effected by a small sample. I see a big picture and try to stick with it unless there is evidence that my initial evaluation was wrong. I have felt the best course of action was to trade Russ and rebuild since the FA backstabbing. Without that backstabbing OKC would still be a top 3 team in the NBA and there is no way anyone is saying to blow it up. Given the loss of a top 5 player took OKC from contender to pretender. I don't blame the front office or anyone in the organization for an FA leaving. I do judge them on how they react to it and so far I'm on the fence. Either the expansions were given to maximize future trade value, since it is very hard to trade poison pill contracts, and long-term players can have more value than pending RFAs or it was done to keep this group together and be a first round playoff exit for the next few years.

It would take a massive off-season to get me to even think of changing my mind for a moment. I can't see anything, realistic, that gets OKC back to being a contender. I also know that the big picture I see isn't the only one and there can always be things happen that I didn't see coming. There are a few different options that all make sense if you believe they can be executed. I just don't see moving multiple of Oladipo, Kanter, Adams, Sabonis and Abrines for things that can upgrade the roster and push OKC back to being a contender as a realistic option.

We have differing opinions, but I do understand the idea of reshaping the roster around Russ. While I don't think it is realistic I certainly understand wanting to wait and see if Presti can do something in this off-season to drastically reshape the roster. I support the blow it up method, but I will fully admit that there is risk involved there and that the find some tweaks people are not idiots. They are just people who believe in a different approach than I do.

Fair from your POV, and you have been consistent, I just vehemently disagree . My hangups are never getting a guy this good again, being irrelevant for years, and that there is value in being good for a long time. Eventually free agents will be willing to come, but not to a loser.

Also, if your rebuild is via draft, you have to not only knock the picks out, but those guys have to fit perfectly and want to stay. Presti nailed 3 drafts and guys didn't want to stick.

I think if they blow it up (at this point they won't), they're likely bad for a long time. Plus, Russ actually likes it, and having a superstar like that is incredible. Something Thunder fans may never see again. Also blowing it up hasn't ever worked, for anyone. Its the least likely way to be a contender, nobody's ever blown up a good team and gotten to a title that way. Sure its fun to watch young guys grow up, but they likely never win a ring. This team has those guys and is already a mid tier playoff team. They're younger than anyone but Minny. You can't beat that.

I also see a ton of potential in the youth on the roster w/o a trade even and a possible conference finals level team in a few years. If you can make it that far, you're an injury away from the finals. Memphis has done it well for years, and though they've never won I think they're a great success. I don't think there is a thing wrong with being a very very good team.

Oh and tbh I've found this season far more fun than the last few. I enjoy the players and development and really think they're very very good. I listed them a while back but wouldn't swap places with more than a handful of teams today.

If you do want to blow it up, how many teams shouldn't blow it up at this point, maybe 3-4?

I agree. The on-paper smart thing to do would be to blow it up. Nobody except the Cavs are contending with the Warriors for the next 3, 4, maybe even 5 years. There is no realistic move anyone can make that will allow them to reach contender status; whether it be an east team in regards to the cavs, or a west team in regards to the warriors. So it would stand to reason that now would be the time to rebuild, just wait out the warriors dominance and when they're finished your previously young talents will now be ready to rise to the top.

But there's more at stake here for OKC. If we trade Russ, we became the team that had James Harden, Kevin Durant and Russell Westbrook all on a team at the same time- and lost every single one of them. We'd be that team. Realistically it's extremely unlikely we become true contenders again in this Westbrook era, provided he stays. Regardless of that, we need to keep him. For the sake of the culture and image of this team. So that future players know that we're capable of at least hanging on to a superstar. So that the fans still get competitive basketball and rock up in droves, and the team keeps its competitive environment. Keeping Russ may well mean our ceiling at best is a 3rd/4th/5th seed team behind the spurs or a healthy clippers. So be it. For the long term sake of the franchise we have to convince Russ to do right by us and stay; which means the organisation has to do right by him and allow the team to be as competitive as possible while he's here. Even if we don't touch the finals, as much as it goes against the modern thinking of 'if you can't win it all, tank', it's crucial we keep him- and that we win a lot of games while he's here.

[Kizz Fastfists]

Keep in mind that Presti did say when Russ was extended that if Russ hadn't signed the extension he would have been sent to Boston instead. The only thing that has changed is Russ has more trade value from the extension. OKC isn't in a better position to reload. Boston still has all their assets. Unless some unknown variable has changed Presti still knows the best course of action is to trade Russ to Boston and rebuild.

[bondom34]

Keep in mind that Presti did say when Russ was extended that if Russ hadn't signed the extension he would have been sent to Boston instead. The only thing that has changed is Russ has more trade value from the extension. OKC isn't in a better position to reload. Boston still has all their assets. Unless some unknown variable has changed Presti still knows the best course of action is to trade Russ to Boston and rebuild.

The new CBA.

Also, Russ said he never intended to leave, and I don't remember seeing that about Boston. Russ intended on staying, and Presti intended on keeping him.

Also, Boston's assets aren't that great to me, 2 draft picks and another wing who can't shoot.

And OKC is 10000 percent in a better position to reload. Boston's kinda in trouble if they don't pull a trade soon. Not trouble, but thost "assets" keep losing value. And they clearly weren't that valued around the league to start or some would have been traded.

[bondom34]

For fun:

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2017-nba-predictions/?ex_cid=rrpromo

Boston is projected to win 2 more games. With a much older roster, getting ready to max out Bradley and Thomas, pay Smart and Crowder and maybe Olynk. They're as stuck in mediocrity as the Thunder.

[thor19]

Sorry to say this, I know am the new guy here, but is a trade forum, which player you think we should target , and which player we have to trade, we could argue if we should trade RW all day some will say that we should rebuild other will say that we need to add and help RW, and thats ok, but which player we should target is the important part.

[bondom34]

Sorry to say this, I know am the new guy here, but is a trade forum, which player you think we should target , and which player we have to trade, we could argue if we should trade RW all day some will say that we should rebuild other will say that we need to add and help RW, and thats ok, but which player we should target is the important part.

Not sure if this was to me or not, but any of Denver's wings, or wait until the offseason and see who becomes available. Right now they're in a wait and see mode for the season. When someone comes open look into it. Any good 2 way wing would work, Chandler/Gallo would be nice too.

Personally I wait til the offsesaon, see whos available. Also this team is too young and has enough potential to be a solid WCF team with a single addition. Just get a wing.

[thor19]

Sorry to say this, I know am the new guy here, but is a trade forum, which player you think we should target , and which player we have to trade, we could argue if we should trade RW all day some will say that we should rebuild other will say that we need to add and help RW, and thats ok, but which player we should target is the important part.

Not sure if this was to me or not, but any of Denver's wings, or wait until the offseason and see who becomes available. Right now they're in a wait and see mode for the season. When someone comes open look into it. Any good 2 way wing would work, Chandler/Gallo would be nice too.

Personally I wait til the offsesaon, see whos available. Also this team is too young and has enough potential to be a solid WCF team with a single addition. Just get a wing.

Not is not for you hahah is that everyone (me included) are talking about trading Westbrook or not and we are not saying which player we should pack and which one we will get. I think that having Chandler is what this team need, can play the sf, some pf in small lineups and some sg in big lineups. Gallo also will be good but I prefer Chandler

[thor19]

Others are KJ McDaniels, Doug McDermott, Gerald green, Omri casspi

[Osirus89]

Big fan of Justin Anderson. Seems like a Presti type of player.

[Osirus89]

OK so I came up with this random trade and wanted to see what everybody thought.
Here goes:
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=zx7jm5g

Two team deal: Dallas/OKC
Dallas sends: Deron Williams, Justin Anderson
Dallas Receives: Anthony Morrow, Cameron Payne

OKC sends: Cameron Payne, Anthony Morrow
OKC receives: Justin Anderson, Deron Williams

Reasoning behind this trade: Dallas has no incentive to try to make a push this year and make their draft pick worse. Deron Williams' contract expires at the end of the year and while Justin Anderson has promise, he is the third string small forward behind Wesley Matthews and Finney Smith. After the season they will have Seth Curry and JJ Barea under contract at the point. Barea is getting older and has injury concerns. Maybe Cameron could be of some use. We will bring in a promising young player at a position of need and Deron Williams can either fill the back up point guard role or start at the 2. (I don't know if he would love that role, but I guess we can cross that bridge when we come to it) He could certainly be a good player to have and since he expires at the end of the year, the team has flexibility regarding what to do this offseason. I would have put Singler with Payne, but I don't know if Dallas would go for that. Morrow also gets more court time in a contract year to up his value.

Depth Chart after trade:
Russ/Williams/Semaj Potential End of game lineup: Russ/Victor/Anderson/Andre/Adams
Andre/Oladipo/Abrines
Anderson/Huestis/Singler
Domantas/Grant/Lauvergne/Collison
Adams/Kanter

You can start still Victor and bring Justin Anderson off the bench and have Deron or Victor start alongside Russell.

Anyway, what do you guys think ? Its not a very big move, but I don't think a big move is coming. Justin Anderson is not a stellar shooter, but he can at least play defense and he can shoot free throws.