Lonzo Ball

[Duke4life831]

Also I thought people would be going crazy over Ball's performance yesterday. He showed every aspect of the offensive game except for a mid range pull up. He attacked the basket in the half court, catch and shoot 3s, 3s off the dribble, a 3 while running basically full speed to his right (usually only shows his jumper while moving to his left), the biggest thing in my opinion is he even showed a nice little floater. So he just didnt show a mid range pull up jumper, again I dont get why so many people are saying this is such a glaring flaw, most coaches and fans say the mid range pull up jumper is the worst shot in basketball.

This is all for a guy that if your team is drafting him you arent looking for him to put up 20 points a night. Youre looking for 16/11 while running your offense to its highest efficiency. All he has to do is keep working and showing that floater and showing when he drives he is willing to attack the basket he will keep defenses honest and that will allow him to be able to kick out and find open shooters which is what he wants to do most.

[HotelVitale]

All of these show his release point being above his head, add in him being 6'5, Im not seeing a low release point. And again he is showing that he is getting his shot off against legit 6'4-6'5 athletic guards.

A release point 'above your head' isn't par for the course, though--a standard shot's release is almost at the apex of a shooter's outstretched arms, so like 2 ft above your head. Ball's release pt looks quite low relative to most shooters, and getting off one (very difficult) shot against a whatever 20 year old doesn't make that irrelevant.

Might not be a huge problem, and it's only a fatal flaw for the laziest of posters/analysts. It's not like he'll never be able to get off shots.

[Duke4life831]

All of these show his release point being above his head, add in him being 6'5, Im not seeing a low release point. And again he is showing that he is getting his shot off against legit 6'4-6'5 athletic guards.

A release point 'above your head' isn't par for the course, though--a standard shot's release is almost at the apex of a shooter's outstretched arms, so like 2 ft above your head. Ball's release pt looks quite low relative to most shooters, and getting off one (very difficult) shot against a whatever 20 year old doesn't make that irrelevant.

Might not be a huge problem, and it's only a fatal flaw for the laziest of posters/analysts. It's not like he'll never be able to get off shots.

Im not saying its a high release or anything like that. Im just saying its not a low release especially when you consider his height plus how much he jumps when he shoots.

Just for a comparison these are pictures from almost identical angles




Im not trying to make the argument that Ball is going to be wipping out pull up jumpers all day in traffic like guys like Curry does, thats not his game at all. All im saying is I dont see him having a hard time getting off 3 point shots against normal NBA coverage. Pull up jumpers in traffic is not going to be his thing, hes going to be catch and shoot, step back jumper type of guy and hes going to need to add about a 10ft floater for his mid range. Thats how he is going to probably score his 14-16 and keep defenses honest.

I just see a lot of people say oh he wont be able to get his shot off in the NBA and hes just going to be another Rubio. To me thats just extremely lazy or ignorant.

[cksdayoff]

Im not trying to make the argument that Ball is going to be wipping out pull up jumpers all day in traffic like guys like Curry does, thats not his game at all. All im saying is I dont see him having a hard time getting off 3 point shots against normal NBA coverage. Pull up jumpers in traffic is not going to be his thing, hes going to be catch and shoot, step back jumper type of guy and hes going to need to add about a 10ft floater for his mid range. Thats how he is going to probably score his 14-16 and keep defenses honest.

I just see a lot of people say oh he wont be able to get his shot off in the NBA and hes just going to be another Rubio. To me thats just extremely lazy or ignorant.

i don't remember anyone saying he has a slow release. he has a pretty quick release. and i also agree that he won't have an issue getting his shot off since he'll probably taking a lot of open 3s and he'll probably extend his range a foot or two behind the nba 3 point line where a hand won't be up in his face.

[HotelVitale]

All of these show his release point being above his head, add in him being 6'5, Im not seeing a low release point. And again he is showing that he is getting his shot off against legit 6'4-6'5 athletic guards.

A release point 'above your head' isn't par for the course, though--a standard shot's release is almost at the apex of a shooter's outstretched arms, so like 2 ft above your head. Ball's release pt looks quite low relative to most shooters, and getting off one (very difficult) shot against a whatever 20 year old doesn't make that irrelevant. Might not be a huge problem, and it's only a fatal flaw for the laziest of posters/analysts. It's not like he'll never be able to get off shots.

Im not saying its a high release or anything like that. Im just saying its not a low release especially when you consider his height plus how much he jumps when he shoots. . I just see a lot of people say oh he wont be able to get his shot off in the NBA and hes just going to be another Rubio. To me thats just extremely lazy or ignorant.

Ah I see. You're looking at weird pictures/angles. In that above photo Curry's not actually close to releasing the ball, he's still cocking it way back before firing it another 6-10 inches higher. Here's what Curry looks like actually releasing the ball:
https://www.wired.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/96221381.jpg
http://www.ethiosports.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/Stephen-Curry.jpg
http://static.sportskeeda.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/stephen-curry-1378273.jpg
http://www.basketballworkouttips.com/wp-content/uploads/Stephen-Curry-shooting-form.jpg

Looking at Ball again, you can see that he definitely has a weird angle of release, which means not only that he can't get his shots off as easily but also that it's a less than ideal arc for the ball to take, which just makes it more difficult to be a great shooter from anywhere (I remember lots of fights with my 7th grade bball coach about angles!). I feel like I've seen enough this year to say that he's a good shooter who has a weird release, but I still think it's important to keep the weird release in mind when evaluating just how good a shooter he might be in the NBA.

[Upperclass]

He shoots the ball almost exactly like Kevin Martin.. His release is also lighting quick.. he'll be fine

[mattao313]

A release point 'above your head' isn't par for the course, though--a standard shot's release is almost at the apex of a shooter's outstretched arms, so like 2 ft above your head. Ball's release pt looks quite low relative to most shooters, and getting off one (very difficult) shot against a whatever 20 year old doesn't make that irrelevant. Might not be a huge problem, and it's only a fatal flaw for the laziest of posters/analysts. It's not like he'll never be able to get off shots.

Im not saying its a high release or anything like that. Im just saying its not a low release especially when you consider his height plus how much he jumps when he shoots. . I just see a lot of people say oh he wont be able to get his shot off in the NBA and hes just going to be another Rubio. To me thats just extremely lazy or ignorant.

Ah I see. You're looking at weird pictures/angles. In that above photo Curry's not actually close to releasing the ball, he's still cocking it way back before firing it another 6-10 inches higher. Here's what Curry looks like actually releasing the ball:
https://www.wired.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/96221381.jpg
http://www.ethiosports.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/Stephen-Curry.jpg
http://static.sportskeeda.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/stephen-curry-1378273.jpg
http://www.basketballworkouttips.com/wp-content/uploads/Stephen-Curry-shooting-form.jpg

Looking at Ball again, you can see that he definitely has a weird angle of release, which means not only that he can't get his shots off as easily but also that it's a less than ideal arc for the ball to take, which just makes it more difficult to be a great shooter from anywhere (I remember lots of fights with my 7th grade bball coach about angles!). I feel like I've seen enough this year to say that he's a good shooter who has a weird release, but I still think it's important to keep the weird release in mind when evaluating just how good a shooter he might be in the NBA.

You're looking at the follow through.

Spoiler:

[HotelVitale]

Im not saying its a high release or anything like that. Im just saying its not a low release especially when you consider his height plus how much he jumps when he shoots. . I just see a lot of people say oh he wont be able to get his shot off in the NBA and hes just going to be another Rubio. To me thats just extremely lazy or ignorant.

Ah I see. You're looking at weird pictures/angles. In that above photo Curry's not actually close to releasing the ball, he's still cocking it way back before firing it another 6-10 inches higher. Here's what Curry looks like actually releasing the ball:
https://www.wired.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/96221381.jpg
http://www.ethiosports.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/Stephen-Curry.jpg
http://static.sportskeeda.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/stephen-curry-1378273.jpg
http://www.basketballworkouttips.com/wp-content/uploads/Stephen-Curry-shooting-form.jpg
Looking at Ball again, you can see that he definitely has a weird angle of release, which means not only that he can't get his shots off as easily but also that it's a less than ideal arc for the ball to take, which just makes it more difficult to be a great shooter from anywhere (I remember lots of fights with my 7th grade bball coach about angles!). I feel like I've seen enough this year to say that he's a good shooter who has a weird release, but I still think it's important to keep the weird release in mind when evaluating just how good a shooter he might be in the NBA.

You're looking at the follow through.

Maybe the first and third of those photos (the free throws) but not the other two (the in-game, defended shots). Those are pretty close to the point where the muscles are giving the push-off to the ball.

In any case, the one you just put up shows that Ball is like 5-10 inches from full extension (his shooting elbow is really is at maybe a 110 degree angle?), so yeah he's still releasing the ball a lot lower than the standard shot. Again, it's not necessarily a big deal, but callin a cat a cat is always useful.

[cksdayoff]

there's a slow-mo videoclip of lonzo ball hitting a corner three in practice somewhere on the net. the video is taken from behind and it, i would assume, is a good way to dissect how the ball is launched, where his body is positioned in regards to the basket.

i wish i saved the video, i cant find it anywhere now.

[Unbreakable99]

there's a slow-mo videoclip of lonzo ball hitting a corner three in practice somewhere on the net. the video is taken from behind and it, i would assume, is a good way to dissect how the ball is launched, where his body is positioned in regards to the basket.

i wish i saved the video, i cant find it anywhere now.

Read on Twitter

[Marcus]

there's a slow-mo videoclip of lonzo ball hitting a corner three in practice somewhere on the net. the video is taken from behind and it, i would assume, is a good way to dissect how the ball is launched, where his body is positioned in regards to the basket.

i wish i saved the video, i cant find it anywhere now.

Read on Twitter

Yeah I don't understand it but it works so I wouldn't mess with it. Sure someone will though.

[Dr Aki]

if it's stupid but it works, it's not stupid

[No-Man]

it works off ball and maybe pulling out to his left, if he has to go right or do that in any pressured situation, good luck, and he is not a threat to dislodge a defender if you blitz him or defend him tight because he is neither an elite athlete or ballhandler, so that could mean trouble.

[ratra_1211]

it works off ball and maybe pulling out to his left, if he has to go right or do that in any pressured situation, good luck, and he is not a threat to dislodge a defender if you blitz him or defend him tight because he is neither an elite athlete or ballhandler, so that could mean trouble.

https://youtu.be/htp-F1VY1VM?t=3m40s

i know its against colllege dude, but he hit one here.
didnt really watch college ball, but saw lots of prospects highlights (lakers bottom 2 atm ) and what you said made me remember this one

[Marcus]

it works off ball and maybe pulling out to his left, if he has to go right or do that in any pressured situation, good luck, and he is not a threat to dislodge a defender if you blitz him or defend him tight because he is neither an elite athlete or ballhandler, so that could mean trouble.

https://youtu.be/htp-F1VY1VM?t=3m40s

i know its against colllege dude, but he hit one here.
didnt really watch college ball, but saw lots of prospects highlights (lakers bottom 2 atm ) and what you said made me remember this one

Yeah for all the flak Lonzo takes for his shot, seems like the windup is the only thing wrong with it. His feet are always set (which is how he got that off with the funky windup) and the rotation can't be argued. He also seems to be able to easily adjust the height of the ball regardless of the shot challenge.

[Kolkmania]

100+ attempts in and being able to shoot over defenders, I've reached the point that I'm trusting his catch and shoot mechanics. Release point is high enough and no sideways rotation of the ball after his release. Pull up jumpers will always be a difficult task if he's going to his right, would require 90+ degrees of rotating his body.

it works off ball and maybe pulling out to his left, if he has to go right or do that in any pressured situation, good luck, and he is not a threat to dislodge a defender if you blitz him or defend him tight because he is neither an elite athlete or ballhandler, so that could mean trouble.

He's not going to tear NBA teams apart by himself, he needs active and intelligent players around him and he would perfectly complement them. Blitzing Lonzo Ball would open passing lanes and he would punish every slight miscommunication.

[doordoor123]

100+ attempts in and being able to shoot over defenders, I've reached the point that I'm trusting his catch and shoot mechanics. Release point is high enough and no sideways rotation of the ball after his release. Pull up jumpers will always be a difficult task if he's going to his right, would require 90+ degrees of rotating his body.

it works off ball and maybe pulling out to his left, if he has to go right or do that in any pressured situation, good luck, and he is not a threat to dislodge a defender if you blitz him or defend him tight because he is neither an elite athlete or ballhandler, so that could mean trouble.

He's not going to tear NBA teams apart by himself, he needs active and intelligent players around him and he would perfectly complement them. Blitzing Lonzo Ball would open passing lanes and he would punish every slight miscommunication.

That's the issue, there is rarely miscommunication in the NBA. D'Angelo Russell had better drives in college because of miscommunication, but it became a major issue in the NBA. Yes, Lonzo is quicker and much more athletic, but miscommunication isn't an excuse for someone to be better from college to the pros. Guys that take advantage of knowing the game more and being smarter/stronger don't have the same success doing that in the NBA because everyone knows the tricks and everyone has to know the plays. In the NBA there are players that know what play you'll run before you even run it.

[Marcus]

100+ attempts in and being able to shoot over defenders, I've reached the point that I'm trusting his catch and shoot mechanics. Release point is high enough and no sideways rotation of the ball after his release. Pull up jumpers will always be a difficult task if he's going to his right, would require 90+ degrees of rotating his body.

it works off ball and maybe pulling out to his left, if he has to go right or do that in any pressured situation, good luck, and he is not a threat to dislodge a defender if you blitz him or defend him tight because he is neither an elite athlete or ballhandler, so that could mean trouble.

He's not going to tear NBA teams apart by himself, he needs active and intelligent players around him and he would perfectly complement them. Blitzing Lonzo Ball would open passing lanes and he would punish every slight miscommunication.

That's the issue, there is rarely miscommunication in the NBA. D'Angelo Russell had better drives in college because of miscommunication, but it became a major issue in the NBA. Yes, Lonzo is quicker and much more athletic, but miscommunication isn't an excuse for someone to be better from college to the pros. Guys that take advantage of knowing the game more and being smarter/stronger don't have the same success doing that in the NBA because everyone knows the tricks and everyone has to know the plays. In the NBA there are players that know what play you'll run before you even run it.

I get what you're saying but lets not act like high IQ doesn't still go a long way. Plenty of cases of guys thinking the game into success when/if they can't be better physically. Understanding and skill still carry quite a bit of weight in the league.

[doordoor123]

100+ attempts in and being able to shoot over defenders, I've reached the point that I'm trusting his catch and shoot mechanics. Release point is high enough and no sideways rotation of the ball after his release. Pull up jumpers will always be a difficult task if he's going to his right, would require 90+ degrees of rotating his body.



He's not going to tear NBA teams apart by himself, he needs active and intelligent players around him and he would perfectly complement them. Blitzing Lonzo Ball would open passing lanes and he would punish every slight miscommunication.

That's the issue, there is rarely miscommunication in the NBA. D'Angelo Russell had better drives in college because of miscommunication, but it became a major issue in the NBA. Yes, Lonzo is quicker and much more athletic, but miscommunication isn't an excuse for someone to be better from college to the pros. Guys that take advantage of knowing the game more and being smarter/stronger don't have the same success doing that in the NBA because everyone knows the tricks and everyone has to know the plays. In the NBA there are players that know what play you'll run before you even run it.

I get what you're saying but lets not act like high IQ doesn't still go a long way. Plenty of cases of guys thinking the game into success when/if they can't be better physically. Understanding and skill still carry quite a bit of weight in the league.

You have to either be a genius or be really really good at knowing how to defend.

[greg4012]

100+ attempts in and being able to shoot over defenders, I've reached the point that I'm trusting his catch and shoot mechanics. Release point is high enough and no sideways rotation of the ball after his release. Pull up jumpers will always be a difficult task if he's going to his right, would require 90+ degrees of rotating his body.

it works off ball and maybe pulling out to his left, if he has to go right or do that in any pressured situation, good luck, and he is not a threat to dislodge a defender if you blitz him or defend him tight because he is neither an elite athlete or ballhandler, so that could mean trouble.

He's not going to tear NBA teams apart by himself, he needs active and intelligent players around him and he would perfectly complement them. Blitzing Lonzo Ball would open passing lanes and he would punish every slight miscommunication.

That's the issue, there is rarely miscommunication in the NBA. D'Angelo Russell had better drives in college because of miscommunication, but it became a major issue in the NBA. Yes, Lonzo is quicker and much more athletic, but miscommunication isn't an excuse for someone to be better from college to the pros. Guys that take advantage of knowing the game more and being smarter/stronger don't have the same success doing that in the NBA because everyone knows the tricks and everyone has to know the plays. In the NBA there are players that know what play you'll run before you even run it.

That's a pretty gross exaggeration. Plus, I recall my one major concern from seeing Russell in college was that he was never able to create by getting into the paint.