Fake Trade Thread 16/17 pt.1

[Braggins]

I would love Hawes or Hibbert + 2018 1st for Nurkic. I'd rather have Hawes than Hibbert for basketball reasons, but I like Hibberts expiring contract and we'd ideally not ever need to play either one with Cody/Nurkic/Frank available at center, so I'd probably rather unload Hawes tbh.

[Dzon Dilindzer]

theres a lot of things that bothers me about Nurkic, I know he has potential, but so far he did not developed as expected
is it up to him, Nuggets, I wouldnt know, but Im pretty sure his next team will be make or break for him

I hope hell be traded somewhere where he would be developod corectly, both offensively and defensively, especially offensively, cause I think Malone doesnt see his offensive potential

[Braggins]

Nurkic at least seems like hed be a very high end backup/6th man for us. I also think he and Cody compliment each other very well as a center tandem and Franks skillset covers all the gaps still missing between those two. Having two quality centers makes Clifford's insistence on big ball much more workable as well.

[yosemiteben]

I would love Hawes or Hibbert + 2018 1st for Nurkic. I'd rather have Hawes than Hibbert, but I like Hibberts expiring contract since we'd ideally not ever need to play either one with Cody/Nurkic/Frank available at center, so I'd probably rather unload Hawes tbh.

That's what I was thinking. We would go from committing $11M in cap space to backup centers like this season to only $3M, though we'd need a third string C.

With that move we would be $1.5M under the cap (if the cap stays at $102M) next summer with Sessions, Lamb, and Belinelli still on the roster (together accounting for $19.5M in committed salary if Sessions picks up his PO) and with picking up Wood's and Graham's contracts.

Kind of fun to think about moving Hawes and a pick for Nurkic, and then moving Sessions and Hibbert for Rubio, leaving us with:

Kemba - Rubio - Roberts
Batum - Belinelli
MKG - Lamb - Graham
Marv - Frank - Wood
Cody - Nurkic - vet C

Then if Marv gets hurt we could play the all can't shoot threes lineup of Rubio - Lamb - MKG - Cody - Nurkic. Seriously though, running Rubio and either of MKG or Lamb in a lineup together is probably not a recipe for success.

[Braggins]

Kind of fun to think about moving Hawes and a pick for Nurkic, and then moving Sessions and Hibbert for Rubio, leaving us with:

Kemba - Rubio - Roberts
Batum - Belinelli
MKG - Lamb - Graham
Marv - Frank - Wood
Cody - Nurkic - vet C

Oh man, that team would have me hyped. It sucks giving up more draft picks, but would you throw in a 2nd or two (staggered years) to make that Rubio trade happen? I'm pretty sure I would. We usually waste our 2nds anyways and Rubio is locked up on a reasonable deal through 2019. We'd basically have a very solid 10 man core locked up for the next few years, our 2017 and 2019 1sts, and a reasonably flexible cap situation.

[yosemiteben]

I don't know, I'm a bit tired of throwing away seconds but I don't think Sessions + Hibbert, which really amounts to a salary dump, is enough to get Rubio. I started a thread on the T&T about both trades, hopefully will make for some interesting feedback.

[bravor]

His contract is nice, but since Dzon is obviously well placed to have a solid opinion about Nurkic, i would be curious to know if he ever improved his rim protection since he was drafted and some feedback about his attitude since he seems to be high on himself (that can be good, but it can also be bad in terms of chemistry if he thinks he is the new Sabonis - and alike).

Still wish the bulls kinda collapse and make the only good Lopez available. In terms of contract/profile that remains the best candidate to complement Cody and fix the frontcourt at a reasonable price and for a few years.
Otherwise, it would be better to get that big in the draft (not from picking one of the big in next draft but by using the bpa most likely).

[Braggins]

I don't know, I'm a bit tired of throwing away seconds but I don't think Sessions + Hibbert, which really amounts to a salary dump, is enough to get Rubio. I started a thread on the T&T about both trades, hopefully will make for some interesting feedback.

Phoenix might take that package for Knight. Hes playing poorly for them and they have better options and prospects at guard. He doesn't really fit their timeline either and they are probably much less committed to winning in the next couple years than Minnesota is. Salary relief and 2nds might be enough.

[Dzon Dilindzer]

His contract is nice, but since Dzon is obviously well placed to have a solid opinion about Nurkic, i would be curious to know if he ever improved his rim protection since he was drafted and some feedback about his attitude since he seems to be high on himself (that can be good, but it can also be bad in terms of chemistry if he thinks he is the new Sabonis - and alike).

rookie season (now in third) is still his best defensive season, he was very good rim protector, but the second part of his rookie season he played with knee injury and he also had ankle injury, so at the end of the season, he had knee surgery and he missed majority of next season (he played 32 games if Im correct)

now hes not very good rim protector like in his rookie season, and I expect better rim protection from him! I dont know if its cause he lost 35 pounds during past summer, or its his effort, but on the other hand, he didnt have single injury this season, and he feels better this way

theres some links on that topic:

link 1
link 2


as for his attitude, he has questionable character, he clearly wants to be a starter, and thats probably the main reason why he asked for a trade.. theres a teams where he would be a starter, and Hornets are one of them

thats why I said his next team will be make or break for him

[skywalker33]

As a Nuggets fan, I'd request Hawes and a 2017 top 10 protected 1st instead of the 2018 pick, a more immediate return and would give us more flexibility in this draft.

As for Nurkic, I think he has the world of talent but he gets in his own way a lot. He rushes to get there instead of taking the time to complete. He wants to start (and I think he could a lot of places) but he has a tendenacy to wear his emotions on his sleeves, just an FYI.

[fatlever]

Not sure Nurkic would ever start over Zeller, unless he improves greatly, so if he's only going to be happy in a starting role, how would he react here? Clifford has always done well managing egos, so perhaps he could convince him to accept 20 minutes a night off the bench.

[Vanderbilt_Grad]

Trading Hawes for Nurkic is likely to be more beneficial to the Hornets than trading Hibbert. It would net the team a larger trade exception ... one almost big enough for Alexis Ajinca. As for a pick. I'm kind of neutral on that. I like the idea of a 2018 pick much better than a 2017 one if the Hornets trade it. I just feel strongly that they need to add some young talent after trading last year's pick and Vonleh before before that. Things have worked out so far, but you can't keep trading young guys forever IMHO.

I do think that Nurkic would have a shot at starting here, but I also think that folks underrate Cody. There's a solid chance that he would keep coming off the bench. The main difference with Denver would be Cliff. He is a great communicator with the players. (lol! ninja'd by Fats while typing this)

Trading Sessions + either Hibbert or Hawes for either Rubio or Knight makes sense to me. It's just a gut feeling, but we hear potential Rubio trades every year and it just never seems to happen. But Knight on the other hand makes sense to me as he simply hasn't worked out in Phoenix the way they hoped he would. I would be happy with either trade provided not too much else had to be sent out (ie. 2nd rounders rather than 1st).

Similar to yosemiteben's post above the following team would excite me more than what we have now.

Kemba -Knight - Roberts
Batum - Belinelli
MKG - Lamb - Graham
Marv - Frank - Wood
Cody - Nurkic - Ajinca

[skywalker33]

Not sure Nurkic would ever start over Zeller, unless he improves greatly, so if he's only going to be happy in a starting role, how would he react here? Clifford has always done well managing egos, so perhaps he could convince him to accept 20 minutes a night off the bench.

Don't know much about Zeller, but statistically speaking I could see a nice battle between the tow. Nurkic is averaging about the same stats as Zeller...except he doing it in 17mpg compared to Zeller's 24mpg. I wouldn't expect Nurkic to come in right away and anticipate to start, but next year's TC there would be a battle IMO.

[fatlever]

Not sure Nurkic would ever start over Zeller, unless he improves greatly, so if he's only going to be happy in a starting role, how would he react here? Clifford has always done well managing egos, so perhaps he could convince him to accept 20 minutes a night off the bench.

Don't know much about Zeller, but statistically speaking I could see a nice battle between the tow. Nurkic is averaging about the same stats as Zeller...except he doing it in 17mpg compared to Zeller's 24mpg. I wouldn't expect Nurkic to come in right away and anticipate to start, but next year's TC there would be a battle IMO.

Simply for continuities sake, I can't see Zeller being replaced at center unless the upgrade is obvious. The Hornets starting 5 has a +9 net rating in 450+ minutes this year. That starting 5-man unit is pretty good.

Also, regular stats never really show Zeller's value.

Zeller is 2nd in the league in pick and roll - roll man frequency at 39% and is 7th in the league in point per game as roll man. He sets a ton of screens per game for Kemba/Nic and has developed into a pretty good roll man. He and Nic have amazing chemistry together on PnR situations. Meanwhile Nurkic is looking to post up 35% of the time, one of the highest rates in the league. Hornets would have to go back to the clogged toilet offense from Al Jefferson days two years ago to accommodate Nurkic with the starters. Zeller compliments Kemba and Batum as a screener and roll man.

Zeller has the best individual net rating on the team at +8.

Zeller has better rim protection numbers opp dfg% 50 compared to 56%

Zeller is 4th in the league in screen assists at 5.5 per game, further highlighting is value to Kemba and Batum in the Hornets pick and roll heavy offense.

None of this is to say Nurkic wouldn't be a valuable addition to the team. Zeller doesn't play heavy minutes, even as the teams best Net rating player, so there would be an easy 20-24 minutes a night for Nurkic even with Zeller starting and getting his usual minutes. But Zeller's style clearly fits better with the starters and he has great chemistry with those guys. There are plenty of nights where a low post threat is needed. I'd think of a Zeller/Nurkic partnership similar to Adams and Kanter with OKC. Kanter might have better numbers, but Adams is the guy you want with the starters and usually closing games. Perhaps there is even some possibility of the two playing together at times.

My two cents.

[JMAC3]

Nurkic is due for extension really fast so I would take that into account. We would have him for this year and next and then have to make a decision on him. How much would he get offered? Would I want to pay that much to backup center? Would I want to pay both him and Zeller?

A first round pick has 4 years of cheap team control and then bird rights after.


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[JMAC3]

Nurkic, Wilson Chandler, and Jameer Nelson for Lamb, Hibbert, Sessions, 2018 pick and rights to swap 2019 first round picks?

Takes care of our 3 biggest needs- backup pg, another scorer, and backup center


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[Vanderbilt_Grad]

Denver folks seem to want a 2017 pick. Also is Nelson really better than Sessions over a season? IDK. I do like the deal overall though.

[yosemiteben]

I think if we trade a 2017 pick in pretty much any situation it has to be lotto protected.

[chellis]

Denver folks seem to want a 2017 pick. Also is Nelson really better than Sessions over a season? IDK. I do like the deal overall though.

Honestly, our FO hasn't demonstrated (to me at least) we are are able to identify and develop talent. Sure, MKG and Cody (and sometimes Frank) are solid role players, but based on their draft slot, you expect more. I say slap lotto protection on it and call it a day. If Kemba goes down, we could really spiral out of control. We just need to protect ourselves from that. Otherwise, we'd probably just trade the darn pick closer to the draft.

[skywalker33]

Nurkic, Wilson Chandler, and Jameer Nelson for Lamb, Hibbert, Sessions, 2018 pick and rights to swap 2019 first round picks?

Takes care of our 3 biggest needs- backup pg, another scorer, and backup center


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But doesn't do a lot for the Nuggets, now does it ??