Political Roundtable Part XII

[AFM]

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-01-23/trump-signs-3-executive-orders-withdraws-tpp-freezes-federal-hiring-limits-overseas-

Trump Signs 3 Executive Orders: Withdraws From TPP, Freezes Federal Hiring, Limits Overseas Abortion Funding

[Wizardspride]

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[NatP4]

Does she have the hardest job in the world?

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On it's face it appears insane to spout lies that can easily be fact-checked, but if you are a connoisseur of conservative media you know that Trumps low-information/poorly educated supporters (that segment), can't distinguish between opinion, fact, and bold-faced lies. It is this segment of the population that Trumps Minister of Propaganda is addressing her remarks.

LOL

[dckingsfan]

...you know that Trumps low-information/poorly educated supporters (that segment), can't distinguish between opinion, fact, and bold-faced lies.

Right, the "deplorables" can't understand the nuances of what is happening - should we even allow them to vote?

[Induveca]

...you know that Trumps low-information/poorly educated supporters (that segment), can't distinguish between opinion, fact, and bold-faced lies.

Right, the "deplorables" can't understand the nuances of what is happening - should we even allow them to vote?

That statement sums of the hypocrisy of the "accepting, all-embracing" left. It also explains why Trump won against all odds. Preaching to an audience about the virtues of your ideas, while simultaneously calling them idiots/poorly educated and ignorant. Then don't forget the seething anger and frustration that they're being ignored, when it's pretty obvious why.

The "intellectual yet idiot", piece by Nicholas Taleb dives into this phenomenon.

https://medium.com/incerto/the-intellectual-yet-idiot-13211e2d0577#.47jd1224k

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The IYI pathologizes others for doing things he doesn’t understand without ever realizing it is his understanding that may be limited. He thinks people should act according to their best interests and he knows their interests, particularly if they are “red necks” or English non-crisp-vowel class who voted for Brexit. When plebeians do something that makes sense to them, but not to him, the IYI uses the term “uneducated”. What we generally call participation in the political process, he calls by two distinct designations: “democracy” when it fits the IYI, and “populism” when the plebeians dare voting in a way that contradicts his preferences. While rich people believe in one tax dollar one vote, more humanistic ones in one man one vote, Monsanto in one lobbyist one vote, the IYI believes in one Ivy League degree one-vote, with some equivalence for foreign elite schools and PhDs as these are needed in the club
---

[AFM]

I think, dck was kidding, or half kidding, but always good to read that essay again

[Induveca]

I think, dck was kidding, or half kidding, but always good to read that essay again

Oh yes that was understood, I was actually trying to back up his rightfully sarcastic response to closg00.

[AFM]

I was whitesplaining and mansplaining to you

[dckingsfan]

I think, dck was kidding, or half kidding, but always good to read that essay again

But my stuff never comes across as funny - #neverfunny

[montestewart]

...you know that Trumps low-information/poorly educated supporters (that segment), can't distinguish between opinion, fact, and bold-faced lies.

Right, the "deplorables" can't understand the nuances of what is happening - should we even allow them to vote?

That statement sums of the hypocrisy of the "accepting, all-embracing" left. It also explains why Trump won against all odds. Preaching to an audience about the virtues of your ideas, while simultaneously calling them idiots/poorly educated and ignorant. Then don't forget the seething anger and frustration that they're being ignored, when it's pretty obvious why.

The "intellectual yet idiot", piece by Nicholas Taleb dives into this phenomenon.

https://medium.com/incerto/the-intellectual-yet-idiot-13211e2d0577#.47jd1224k

It's a horrible approach to persuading and reaching common ground, but I know quite a few conservatives, and in their unguarded moments (like, they forget I'm there) I often hear a corresponding intolerance of liberals and a dismissal of their intellectual capacity. Ann Coulter/Rush Limbaugh types lead the charge. It should be added that thoughtful people, liberals and conservatives, generally understand that this approach is divisive and confrontational rather than conciliatory and productive. At the march on Saturday, I several times read and heard messages directed to female Trump voters not as idiots, but as fellow women who might share common cause, and I have an aunt who I'm pretty sure voted for Trump yet attended the march.

Maybe it's because I come from a family that spans the political spectrum that it's easy for me not to jump to conclusions about people based on the way they vote. One of the most liberal members of my family (supported Sanders, voted for Clinton) and one of the most conservative (liked Carson, voted for Trump) are performing artists who have several times worked together and get along fine, even if they don't agree on politics (maybe the fact that they're both religious helps). My stepfather, a Trump voter, is a brilliant man and very fun to hang out with. From what I can see, politics doesn't dictate intelligence, ethics, interests outside of politics, etc., but politics often forces gray into black or white.

Trump himself frequently speaks with a demeaning condescension and dismissal of those whose votes he was not trying to win, so I don't expect this divide to go away, but regardless of political views, such discourse moves the sides only further apart.

[gtn130]

...you know that Trumps low-information/poorly educated supporters (that segment), can't distinguish between opinion, fact, and bold-faced lies.

Right, the "deplorables" can't understand the nuances of what is happening - should we even allow them to vote?

That statement sums of the hypocrisy of the "accepting, all-embracing" left. It also explains why Trump won against all odds. Preaching to an audience about the virtues of your ideas, while simultaneously calling them idiots/poorly educated and ignorant. Then don't forget the seething anger and frustration that they're being ignored, when it's pretty obvious why.

The "intellectual yet idiot", piece by Nicholas Taleb dives into this phenomenon.

https://medium.com/incerto/the-intellectual-yet-idiot-13211e2d0577#.47jd1224k

----
The IYI pathologizes others for doing things he doesn’t understand without ever realizing it is his understanding that may be limited. He thinks people should act according to their best interests and he knows their interests, particularly if they are “red necks” or English non-crisp-vowel class who voted for Brexit. When plebeians do something that makes sense to them, but not to him, the IYI uses the term “uneducated”. What we generally call participation in the political process, he calls by two distinct designations: “democracy” when it fits the IYI, and “populism” when the plebeians dare voting in a way that contradicts his preferences. While rich people believe in one tax dollar one vote, more humanistic ones in one man one vote, Monsanto in one lobbyist one vote, the IYI believes in one Ivy League degree one-vote, with some equivalence for foreign elite schools and PhDs as these are needed in the club
---

Induveca, you don't represent an intellectually honest side of any argument. You literally close your eyes and side with whatever makes you feel good or confirms your biases - for example, you chose to side with Wikileaks over the intel community even after Trump himself begrudgingly admitted Russia perpetrated the hacks.

Since Trump has decimated your willfully ignorant position on Russian hacking, you've been silent and moved right along to other issues that you can make noise about.

You can call it "elitism" or whatever you want, but people are not going to validate your "side" when you are completely unwilling to have a conversation predicated on reality, one that is intellectually honest and fundamentally dialectical. Your opinion is in fact invalid if you aren't commanding the facts.

[gtn130]

...you know that Trumps low-information/poorly educated supporters (that segment), can't distinguish between opinion, fact, and bold-faced lies.

Right, the "deplorables" can't understand the nuances of what is happening - should we even allow them to vote?

This requires respecting opinions that aren't rooted in facts. If people are misinformed, their opinions aren't worth much. The Breitbart crowd is generally wildly misinformed.

[Wizardspride]

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[Wizardspride]

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[dckingsfan]

...you know that Trumps low-information/poorly educated supporters (that segment), can't distinguish between opinion, fact, and bold-faced lies.

Right, the "deplorables" can't understand the nuances of what is happening - should we even allow them to vote?

This requires respecting opinions that aren't rooted in facts. If people are misinformed, their opinions aren't worth much. The Breitbart crowd is generally wildly misinformed.

Sorry, but it just followed so closely to what Hillary did... I agree with Monte that this comes from both sides.

But is this a winning strategy? When the conservatives typecast wide swaths of folks does that help their cause?

In this case you are taking a swing at Trump supports and lumping them as low-information/poorly educated... that is a very large group that you just lumped together. A big chunk of them run small businesses - plumbers, electricians, etc. - they aren't as ignorant as you might guess.

I thought you might like this figure:


Notice the percentage of folks from the Rs that don't trust Breitbart - maybe they get it more than you might guess.

I had a road trip through Trump country in GA. I was stuck in a little town for 3 days. I had some very lengthy conversations with folks there. Many of them didn't like Trump much but liked the politics of Hillary less.

I tried hard to get them to vote for Hillary - I think I had one women convinced. Then her friend reminded her she was a deplorable - and that was that.

[Wizardspride]

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[closg00]

...you know that Trumps low-information/poorly educated supporters (that segment), can't distinguish between opinion, fact, and bold-faced lies.

Right, the "deplorables" can't understand the nuances of what is happening - should we even allow them to vote?

I invite anyone to spend a day in the world of Trumps Chumps, listen to C-Span callers, conservative "talk shows" etc. No joke, I heard a caller who spouting on about the pizza gate sex ring as-if it were actually true. So yes, when Trumps Minister of Propaganda tells a nationwide TV audience that there are "alternative facts", she is speaking directly to those people.

[Wizardspride]

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[Wizardspride]

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[Wizardspride]

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