2001 Bucks

[druggas]

As a Laker fan, I was concerned about the Bucks. They would have given the Lakers all they could handle.

[Eazy E]

I think it was clear that the NBA was rooting for Philly. From George Karl's book:


"Stern watched the game [game 5] in person in Philly's arena, and forgot himself for a moment and acted like a Philly fan. I didn't see it but a lot of people noticed when he stood up and seemed outraged when AI got fouled and it wasn't called, and Ray and I did the bitching that cost us and the senator some money. I'll always remember that Game Five and I'll always hate it"

Have you read the book? Is it worth picking up?

[mhd]

I think it was clear that the NBA was rooting for Philly. From George Karl's book:


"Stern watched the game [game 5] in person in Philly's arena, and forgot himself for a moment and acted like a Philly fan. I didn't see it but a lot of people noticed when he stood up and seemed outraged when AI got fouled and it wasn't called, and Ray and I did the bitching that cost us and the senator some money. I'll always remember that Game Five and I'll always hate it"

Have you read the book? Is it worth picking up?

I liked it. For any basketball diehard, there are some good stories. He gives his opinions (predominantly on the players he coached), but its a solid and quick read.

[Tim Lehrbach]

Maybe you can find an old thread about this series from the first year of RealGM.

Looks like threads only go back to 1/1/08

Ha. I think he might have been taking a shot at the topic. But as a Bucks fan, this was the last really fun year...well...the Fear the Deer year had its moments. RIP prime Bogut

Wasn't taking a shot. I forgot that everything from the distant past had been archived. It would be fun to go back and read RealGM's reactions to the 2001 playoffs. I liked those Bucks quite a bit, but my posts then were probably embarrassing anti-Lakers rants or Blazers meltdown angst, mostly.

[Eazy E]

Looks like threads only go back to 1/1/08

Ha. I think he might have been taking a shot at the topic. But as a Bucks fan, this was the last really fun year...well...the Fear the Deer year had its moments. RIP prime Bogut

Wasn't taking a shot. I forgot that everything from the distant past had been archived. It would be fun to go back and read RealGM's reactions to the 2001 playoffs. I liked those Bucks quite a bit, but my posts then were probably embarrassing anti-Lakers rants or Blazers meltdown angst, mostly.

Yeah it would be interesting to see the reactions when they happened. The internet, especially sports blogs/websites, wasn't like it is now so there is really little on the topic when you search, anything you may find (Bill Simmons' rant) is a perspective looking back on something that happened 15 years ago.

[bebopdeluxe]

Again...to be clear...the Sixers, Bucks and Raptors were all very solid teams, and the Sixers/Raptors and Sixers/Bucks series were both amazing. Eric Snow played on an ankle that had TWO hairline fractures. Iverson was straight ABUSED by players from BOTH the Raptors and Bucks...but kept coming back for more. As I mentioned in my first post, I remember Robinson missing that baseline jumper like it was yesterday.

I remember all of the conspiracy theory crap, too. The bottom line ismthat the Sixers and Bucks were as about as diametrically opposed as you could get...the Bucks Big 3 and their offensive firepower versus the Sixers' defense and relentless driving to the hoop (because other than McKie, they shot like crap from the perimeter). While the free throw differential was dramatic, as I watched the games it was a function of how the two teams played - Robinson and Allen were, for the most part, perimeter players (which was only accentuated by the Sixers defense and Mutombo), whle Iverson played to contact.

To me, the series was Game 4. The Bucks win that game, and they win the series. But at crunch time, not even a BLATANT CHEAP SHOT by Ray Allen (that made AI swallow his blood for the last three minutes of the game) could stop Iverson from willing his team to victory.

The game plan that the Raptors (Oakley) and Bucks ((Williams) had was clear - put Iverson on the wood. The amount of abuse that Iverson took in those series' was tremendous...in a nutshell, they tried to take him out of the game. But AI was the P4P king of the NBA, and even the repeated cheap,shots and flagrant fouls by both teams did not stop AI from leading his team to victory.

[Bernman]

Tim Thomas was amazingly talented.

I think one of the great coaching travesties of all time was Karl letting TimTom turn into "just" a 3 point shooter. Guys physical talents were off the charts. He could have been so much more.

He didn't have any vision on drives. He'd regularly collide into defenders when he attacked the rim from any distance. He was a straight line driver almost purely. That doesn't work in the NBA. He was mostly a 3-pt shooter out of necessity. His physical ability and skill never added up to being more than a very good 6th or 7th man, which is what he was for that team.

[Bernman]

Again...to be clear...the Sixers, Bucks and Raptors were all very solid teams, and the Sixers/Raptors and Sixers/Bucks series were both amazing. Eric Snow played on an ankle that had TWO hairline fractures. Iverson was straight ABUSED by players from BOTH the Raptors and Bucks...but kept coming back for more. As I mentioned in my first post, I remember Robinson missing that baseline jumper like it was yesterday.

I remember all of the conspiracy theory crap, too. The bottom line ismthat the Sixers and Bucks were as about as diametrically opposed as you could get...the Bucks Big 3 and their offensive firepower versus the Sixers' defense and relentless driving to the hoop (because other than McKie, they shot like crap from the perimeter). While the free throw differential was dramatic, as I watched the games it was a function of how the two teams played - Robinson and Allen were, for the most part, perimeter players (which was only accentuated by the Sixers defense and Mutombo), whle Iverson played to contact.

To me, the series was Game 4. The Bucks win that game, and they win the series. But at crunch time, not even a BLATANT CHEAP SHOT by Ray Allen (that made AI swallow his blood for the last three minutes of the game) could stop Iverson from willing his team to victory.

The game plan that the Raptors (Oakley) and Bucks ((Williams) had was clear - put Iverson on the wood. The amount of abuse that Iverson took in those series' was tremendous...in a nutshell, they tried to take him out of the game. But AI was the P4P king of the NBA, and even the repeated cheap,shots and flagrant fouls by both teams did not stop AI from leading his team to victory.

Using conspiracy theory as a pejorative is crap. It stems from CIA brainwashing in the 60's so people didn't re-examine the actions of the powerful and government. This is according to their own documents.

Reality is, conspiracies happen semi-frequently. You can read other gov't documents too or just pay attention to history. That shouldn't be a dirty word. Otherwise you're falling into the trap and using the trap of corruption.

The Bucks were the smallest market in the NBA and there were a lot of fishy things which happened in that series and surrounding to derail the Bucks' impact in the NBA. Foul totals aside, Scott Williams shouldn't have been suspended off that foul for a pivotal match, and I think he was kicked out of that game too (could be wrong about that part). He challenged the ball. The Bad Boys had several tougher fouls per game. Also, hard to explain the Bucks losing all 7 games reffed by Dick Bavetta that season, and 16 straight around that time, when the team was actually good. You know how low of odds it would be for that to happen at random? The number is infinitesimal. And the guy developed a rep before and after of being a company man on behalf of the big market. The optics for Stern were bad. Truth is they didn't want the Bucks to win, and Donaghy outlined how the NBA works with their company men.

[Bernman]

Interesting question

Jabari or Big Dog? Who do you take? Both SF with similar stats lines.

Jabari 100 times out of 100

Gotta figure that Big dog level is the worst case scenario for Jabari.

Yeah, both are/were poor defenders, but Jabari has much better character than Glenn did. Glenn was a stoner. He also was overly obsessed with the mid-range game and wasn't that good going to the basket. Therefore, he wasn't a very efficient scorer. Jabari destroys opponents at the basket and now is hitting a lot of 3's. Arguably already better and projects to be superior when it's said and done.

[picc]

You get blown out of the elimination game, I think you lose any claim to being the better team.

IMO.

[MrOpposite34]

Again...to be clear...the Sixers, Bucks and Raptors were all very solid teams, and the Sixers/Raptors and Sixers/Bucks series were both amazing. Eric Snow played on an ankle that had TWO hairline fractures. Iverson was straight ABUSED by players from BOTH the Raptors and Bucks...but kept coming back for more. As I mentioned in my first post, I remember Robinson missing that baseline jumper like it was yesterday.

I remember all of the conspiracy theory crap, too. The bottom line ismthat the Sixers and Bucks were as about as diametrically opposed as you could get...the Bucks Big 3 and their offensive firepower versus the Sixers' defense and relentless driving to the hoop (because other than McKie, they shot like crap from the perimeter). While the free throw differential was dramatic, as I watched the games it was a function of how the two teams played - Robinson and Allen were, for the most part, perimeter players (which was only accentuated by the Sixers defense and Mutombo), whle Iverson played to contact.

To me, the series was Game 4. The Bucks win that game, and they win the series. But at crunch time, not even a BLATANT CHEAP SHOT by Ray Allen (that made AI swallow his blood for the last three minutes of the game) could stop Iverson from willing his team to victory.

The game plan that the Raptors (Oakley) and Bucks ((Williams) had was clear - put Iverson on the wood. The amount of abuse that Iverson took in those series' was tremendous...in a nutshell, they tried to take him out of the game. But AI was the P4P king of the NBA, and even the repeated cheap,shots and flagrant fouls by both teams did not stop AI from leading his team to victory.

A Realgm poster on the Bucks board posted a drawing board that Milwaukee had in the series. It was pretty cool to see. If he sees this, it'd be cool to check . Otherwise if I find it...I'll post it on here.

[Hornet Mania]

I remember the controversy at the time, but from my perspective it was overblown. The Sixers were a great defensive team and the refs allowed physicality to reign, as they often do with great defensive teams in the playoffs. I felt like the conspiracy was fueled more big by market/small market sentiment than anything else, and there were also a hell of a lot of folks who wanted the Bucks to squash Iverson.

My judgement wasn't totally unbiased though. My Hornets got hosed by questionable calls at home in Game 6 when up 3-2 in the series (a game I attended) and the Bucks ultimately won at home in 7. That's the only instance I can remember of a crowd at the old Hive chanting "bull" Philly or NY-style. So from that point on my opinion of the Bucks was "eff y'all, you're only there because of crap calls, how you like it now fellas?"

[M-C-G]

Tim Thomas was amazingly talented.

I think one of the great coaching travesties of all time was Karl letting TimTom turn into "just" a 3 point shooter. Guys physical talents were off the charts. He could have been so much more.

He didn't have any vision on drives. He'd regularly collide into defenders when he attacked the rim from any distance. He was a straight line driver almost purely. That doesn't work in the NBA. He was mostly a 3-pt shooter out of necessity. His physical ability and skill never added up to being more than a very good 6th or 7th man, which is what he was for that team.

He showed flashes of a being a 6'10 Sam Cassel game backing down smaller guys and was a match up nightmare. I don't think he was a guy that really worked on his game or cared about being great, but still believe he could have been a star under the right circumstances.

[bebopdeluxe]

You get blown out of the elimination game, I think you lose any claim to being the better team.

IMO.

QFT

AI had 44/7/6 in Game 7. End of story.

[Bernman]

You get blown out of the elimination game, I think you lose any claim to being the better team.

IMO.

QFT

AI had 44/7/6 in Game 7. End of story.

That's a convenient as hell criteria. Series should have already been over, it was in Philly, and Scott Williams got suspended for it.

[bebopdeluxe]

You get blown out of the elimination game, I think you lose any claim to being the better team.

IMO.

QFT

AI had 44/7/6 in Game 7. End of story.

That's a convenient as hell criteria. Series should have already been over, it was in Philly, and Scott Williams got suspended for it.

Maybe you guys should have won Game 4 and put us away. Shame that Ray Allen's elbow to Iverson's mouth didn't do it - huh?

http://www.nytimes.com/2001/05/29/sports/pro-basketball-hobbled-and-heroic-iverson-leaves-bucks-flat-footed.html



This is a shame. It really was a great series.