NBA 2017 Draft Prospects Thread

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I think you need to stop beating this dead horse that we can't make a move because we are scared of losing Hayward. I think that assumption is seriously underrating Hayward's basketball IQ because he knows that we can't keep everyone based on the contracts that they want. With our depth it is a very easy sell that we are making a proactive move for the betterment of our team going forward while not sacrificing the now.

No rookie selected in this draft will be contributing to team wins until 2019 at the earliest. So any move where you sacrifice a rotation player for a rookie will be a step-back over the next two years.

Do you think the Jazz window for a championship is better in the next two-to-three years or in five-to-seven years given the current roster and draft assets?

This simply isn't true. We see every season that rookies can contribute immediately. The difference is that they are usually drafted to a bad team so they don't have a huge impact when it comes to wins and losses but don't take that to mean they can't contribute immediately. I highly doubt that you are going to try and tell me that players like Towns and Porzingis couldn't have helped us immediately last year. It doesn't matter whether these guys are one and done because the elite players are capable of contributing in this league immediately so don't act like we would have some kind of waiting game. This draft is stacked at the top with elite talent that can come in and contribute immediately. They obviously aren't stars immediately but it doesn't take these guys long to get to that point. By their 2nd year most of these players are major contributors. This is especially true for guards and the guards at the top of this draft can hold their own with any of the pg's that have been taken #1 in the draft over the last 10 years and just look how productive those players were as rookies.

Rose as a rookie- 16.8pts, 6.3asts, 3.9rbs
Wall - 16.4pts, 8.3asts, 4.6rbs
Kyrie - 18.5pts, 5.4asts, 3.7rbs

Then you have some of the current elite guards who weren't taken number but still contributed immediately

Curry-17.5pts, 5.9asts, 4.5rbs
Westbrook- 15.3pts, 5.3asts, 4.9rbs
Lillard- 19pts, 6.5asts, 3.1rbs
Paul- 16.1pts, 7.8asts, 5.1rbs

The point I'm making is to lump all rookies as having not been ready to contribute from the get go is flat out wrong. Obviously some players take time but there are just as many that can play at this level immediately and the players at the top end of this draft are as talented as they come.

[uber_snotling]

Rookie year counting stats are worthless. Look at the first three examples. All had varying degrees of inefficiency and were bad at defense, giving up more than they contributed.

Wall - eFG% = 42, TOV% = 18.6 - NetRtg. -10
Rose - 22% from 3, 3.5 TOVs per game. NetRtg. -5
Curry - 4 TOVs per game, 17% TOV rate. NetRtg. -4

And of course, you are ignoring all the guys who are drafted in the top 10 who don't end up helping for the first three years, like Russell, Exum, Mudiay,Smart, Burke, Carter-Williams, Jimmer, Flynn, Jennings, or Conley.

So give me some examples of PGs leading their teams to the conference finals within their first three years of being in the league. As far as I can tell, that is Derrick Rose and no one else in the last 25 years. Making it to the Conference Finals seems like a reasonable goal for this Jazz core.

So again I ask you whether you think the Jazz championship window with this roster and these draft assets is more likely to occur before or after 2020? I think the assets and roster are better aligned in the short-term than the long-term, but you may think that the current roster needs to be rebuilt with 19 year olds to compete with Philly and Minny in the next decade.

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Rookie year counting stats are worthless. Look at the first three examples. All had varying degrees of inefficiency and were bad at defense, giving up more than they contributed.

Wall - eFG% = 42, TOV% = 18.6 - NetRtg. -10
Rose - 22% from 3, 3.5 TOVs per game. NetRtg. -5
Curry - 4 TOVs per game, 17% TOV rate. NetRtg. -4

And of course, you are ignoring all the guys who are drafted in the top 10 who don't end up helping for the first three years, like Russell, Exum, Mudiay,Smart, Burke, Carter-Williams, Jimmer, Flynn, Jennings, or Conley.

So give me some examples of PGs leading their teams to the conference finals within their first three years of being in the league. As far as I can tell, that is Derrick Rose and no one else in the last 25 years. Making it to the Conference Finals seems like a reasonable goal for this Jazz core.

So again I ask you whether you think the Jazz championship window with this roster and these draft assets is more likely to occur before or after 2020? I think the assets and roster are better aligned in the short-term than the long-term, but you may think that the current roster needs to be rebuilt with 19 year olds to compete with Philly and Minny in the next decade.

Like I said in my original post these players are almost always taken by terrible teams so it is completely unreasonable to expect them to turn a team around that quickly but to take that to mean that these players aren't capable of contributing immediately on a good team is just stupid. As you mentioned the only player that did it was Rose and he didn't join a terrible team like many of these other teams because the bulls jumped way up in the lottery.

I also love how the list you posted has players that would certainly be helping us. Guys like Russell and Smart would be helping this team big time if we had them right now. Smart would be our best perimeter defender and Russell would be either our backup pg or starting sg.

You also mention Conley who if he played like he did in his 1st and 2nd seasons would be a solid contributor. Then of course you mention a bunch of other players that aren't viewed in even close to the same ball park as guys like Fultz, Ball and Smith. Those guys are viewed as possible superstars so don't even try to mention those other players when compared to those guys.

[uber_snotling]

I'd be all in favor of trading for an all-star NOW, if there was an all-star on the market that could take this team to contender status.

There's no point in drafting top 5 lotto picks if the team isn't willing to develop them. This was the issue with the Corbin years when Jefferson and Millsap were playing the minutes instead of Favors, Kanter, and Gobert. Not to mention that lottery picks aren't all guaranteed future rotation players (see list in the previous post).

You still haven't said what you think the optimal Jazz window is. I think the FO is planning on competing sooner, rather than later. You seem to want a team to be competitive next decade.

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I'd be all in favor of trading for an all-star NOW, if there was an all-star on the market that could take this team to contender status.

There's no point in drafting top 5 lotto picks if the team isn't willing to develop them. This was the issue with the Corbin years when Jefferson and Millsap were playing the minutes instead of Favors, Kanter, and Gobert. Not to mention that lottery picks aren't all guaranteed future rotation players (see list in the previous post).

You still haven't said what you think the optimal Jazz window is. I think the FO is planning on competing sooner, rather than later. You seem to want a team to be competitive next decade.

I'm sorry but there is a huge difference between drafting a guy like Exum that isn't ready and needs developing and players like Fultz, Ball and Smith who are good to contribute right away while continuing to improve. That is what you don't seem to be understanding. These guys are that damn good right now and they can get a lot better. These guys can contribute to winning now and in the future. Yeah it may take a few years for them to become stars I this league but they will be quality rotation players the second they step on an nba court.

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[uber_snotling]

I'm sorry but there is a huge difference between drafting a guy like Exum that isn't ready and needs developing and players like Fultz, Ball and Smith who are good to contribute right away while continuing to improve. That is what you don't seem to be understanding. These guys are that damn good right now and they can get a lot better. These can contribute to winning now and in the future.

Sure, if we can get a top 3 draft pick. I can only think of one asset the Jazz have that would get a top 3 draft pick, and that's Gobert.

Do you see any other Jazz asset netting a top 5 draft pick in a trade?

[AingesBurner]

Anyone watch the USU CSU game? Omogbo looks like he has a good NBA ready body, somebody I'll keep my eye on and it helps his coach is Larry Eustachy.

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I'm sorry but there is a huge difference between drafting a guy like Exum that isn't ready and needs developing and players like Fultz, Ball and Smith who are good to contribute right away while continuing to improve. That is what you don't seem to be understanding. These guys are that damn good right now and they can get a lot better. These can contribute to winning now and in the future.

Sure, if we can get a top 3 draft pick. I can only think of one asset the Jazz have that would get a top 3 draft pick, and that's Gobert.

Do you see any other Jazz asset netting a top 5 draft pick in a trade?

This entire debate was about if we were to get a top 5 pick and yes I think we have the assets to get a top 5 pick without moving Gobert. Especially if we can get Favors to look like his usual self.

[UTJazzFan_Echo1]

I'm sorry but there is a huge difference between drafting a guy like Exum that isn't ready and needs developing and players like Fultz, Ball and Smith who are good to contribute right away while continuing to improve. That is what you don't seem to be understanding. These guys are that damn good right now and they can get a lot better. These can contribute to winning now and in the future.

Sure, if we can get a top 3 draft pick. I can only think of one asset the Jazz have that would get a top 3 draft pick, and that's Gobert.

Do you see any other Jazz asset netting a top 5 draft pick in a trade?

This entire debate was about if we were to get a top 5 pick and yes I think we have the assets to get a top 5 pick without moving Gobert. Especially if we can get Favors to look like his usual self.

Favors, Hood and multiple first rounders is enough to get into the top 5.

[uber_snotling]

Can you two give examples of top 5 draft picks being traded in the last 10 years for any package that didn't include an all-star?

Favors + Hood + multiple late first round picks isn't going to get a top 5 pick in a stacked draft year IMO, but maybe I just don't have a sense of the current value of draft picks...

[SoCalJazzFan]

Draftexpress has the Jazz selecting Caleb Swanigan with 44th pick. Jazz would be lucky to get him with their GSW most likely 30th pick. This kid could legitimately replace Favors. I know we are focusing on guards, but I have my eye on him.

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Can you two give examples of top 5 draft picks being traded in the last 10 years for any package that didn't include an all-star?

Favors + Hood + multiple late first round picks isn't going to get a top 5 pick in a stacked draft year IMO, but maybe I just don't have a sense of the current value of draft picks...

I think you got this backwards - all-stars or border-line all-stars don't become available EVEN FOR TOP PICKS, not the other way around. Boston has been trying to trade its top 3 picks for years with no luck, the Lakers were trying to trade their picks with no luck. Fans generally overrate the value of picks because of the lure of potential, hope and dreams. The reality is - in any draft the chance is that someone like Favors is going to have better career than whoever you draft at no. 5. I think there are two main reasons top picks don't get traded:

1. all stars don't become available
2. teams that are at the top of the draft are rarely in a position where adding a single all-star makes sense(i.e. they are in rebuilding, not in a win-now mode) and a young player makes more sense timeline-wise.

A good player who seemed to be way over the hill in Ibaka managed to fetch no. 11 pick, Oladipo and Ilyasova. This is the type of return good players fetch. Straight up mediocre players like Marco Belinelli, Greivis Vasquez, Hardaway Jr fetch picks in the mid to late first.

If Favors became available last year, I think you could have EASILY gotten top 3-5 pick + maybe other stuff.

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Watch on YouTube

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I didn't know where to post it, but... this is funny as hell:

Read on Twitter

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Unpopular opinion - Bam Adebayo is the best center prospect in this draft and he will be massively under-drafted. I'd trade both our picks to get him.

Watch on YouTube

[pickIBL]

Speaking of coaches botching development, prospects can also come via trade. The jazz could do other things outside of the draft too

[UTJazzFan_Echo1]

Unpopular opinion - Bam Adebayo is the best center prospect in this draft and he will be massively under-drafted. I'd trade both our picks to get him.

Watch on YouTube

I've watched him a couple times.

His offensive game has a ways to go, especially his shooting. But his athleticism, strength and ability to guard perimeter players remind me of Favors. The guy can really move his feet and does a great job guarding perimeter players on switches. The dude is pretty darn strong too.

That being said, I think his lack of offensive game and passing abilities leaves a lot to desire.

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Unpopular opinion - Bam Adebayo is the best center prospect in this draft and he will be massively under-drafted. I'd trade both our picks to get him.

Watch on YouTube

I've watched him a couple times.

His offensive game has a ways to go, especially his shooting. But his athleticism, strength and ability to guard perimeter players remind me of Favors. The guy can really move his feet and does a great job guarding perimeter players on switches. The dude is pretty darn strong too.

That being said, I think his lack of offensive game and passing abilities leaves a lot to desire.

I actually think he makes some nice passes and his offensive game is not refined, but I think it's much better than most players he's been compared to(the Biyombos or DeAndre Jordans and Andre Drummonds of the world). He seems to play the game right. You are right about his D though - I love his feet, he can stay with almost anybody, even fast guards.

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I didn't know where to post it, but... this is funny as hell:

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That flop deserved to get him ejected. Hands down the worst flop ever. Brooks is one of those players that does things that infuriate as an opposing fan but at the same time I would love to have him on the jazz. He brings an intensity and cockiness that I think we need and he has such a great all around game. He was dicing the utes up last night but his teammates couldn't convert the great looks that they were getting.

[sipclip]

Unpopular opinion - Bam Adebayo is the best center prospect in this draft and he will be massively under-drafted. I'd trade both our picks to get him.

Watch on YouTube

I've watched him a couple times.

His offensive game has a ways to go, especially his shooting. But his athleticism, strength and ability to guard perimeter players remind me of Favors. The guy can really move his feet and does a great job guarding perimeter players on switches. The dude is pretty darn strong too.

That being said, I think his lack of offensive game and passing abilities leaves a lot to desire.

I actually think he makes some nice passes and his offensive game is not refined, but I think it's much better than most players he's been compared to(the Biyombos or DeAndre Jordans and Andre Drummonds of the world). He seems to play the game right. You are right about his D though - I love his feet, he can stay with almost anybody, even fast guards.

In this day and age we see a lot of bigs under drafted and he is going to be another one of them. I really think he has the potential to be the next Dwight Howard and I would also be willing to give up multiple picks for him.