Discuss Ernie Grunfeld's GM skills here (Part 2)

[AFM]

Is that a bad ombré or a good one?

[queridiculo]

Worse deal 35 year old Anthony Mason 4 years $20 million (salary cap inflation adjusted $13 million per) or 4 years $64 million for 30 year old knee and back injury plagued Mahinmi?

[keynote]

I was listening to a recent ep of Truth About It's Pixel and Roll podcast (they've improved their audio quality from horrible to decent; kudos to them). They noted that Jason Smith, Marcus Thornton, *and* Andrew Nicholson are all represented by the same agent -- *Beal's* agent. Is this true? And, if so, is this evidence that EG just took the path of least resistance when filling out the depth chart?

"Eh, as long as you're here...what else you got?"

[montestewart]

I was listening to a recent ep of Truth About It's Pixel and Roll podcast (they've improved their audio quality from horrible to decent; kudos to them). They noted that Jason Smith, Marcus Thornton, *and* Andrew Nicholson are all represented by the same agent -- *Beal's* agent. Is this true? And, if so, is this evidence that EG just took the path of least resistance when filling out the depth chart?

"Eh, as long as you're here...what else you got?"

Draft Express lists Thornton with Tony Dutt at Stealth Sports. Maybe he switched?

http://www.draftexpress.com/agents/agency/Stealth-Sports-179/

Beal, Smith and Nicholson are all listed with Mark Bartelstein at Priority Sports. Among his 54 primary clients, Bartelstein also represents Ramon Sessions, Jared Dudley, Alan Anderson, Garrett Temple, Nick Young, Jannero Pargo, Ronny Turiaf, Lester Hudson, and Alonzo Gee. Maybe you're on to something.

http://www.draftexpress.com/agents/agency/Priority-Sports-11/

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

How lazy and uninspired, even if a few of those players played well as Wizards.

[queridiculo]

Draft Express lists Thornton with Tony Dutt at Stealth Sports. Maybe he switched?

http://www.draftexpress.com/agents/agency/Stealth-Sports-179/

Beal, Smith and Nicholson are all listed with Mark Bartelstein at Priority Sports. Among his 54 primary clients, Bartelstein also represents Ramon Sessions, Jared Dudley, Alan Anderson, Garrett Temple, Nick Young, Jannero Pargo, Ronny Turiaf, Lester Hudson, and Alonzo Gee. Maybe you're on to something.

http://www.draftexpress.com/agents/agency/Priority-Sports-11/

Stumbled upon that client list when I was looking into Mahinmi's representation. Was curious if cronyism might have had anything to do with that signing...

FYI, if you go back a bit further Darius Songaila was also in the mix.

Would be interesting to break down player signings and their representation with all that data that's available.

[keynote]

I was listening to a recent ep of Truth About It's Pixel and Roll podcast (they've improved their audio quality from horrible to decent; kudos to them). They noted that Jason Smith, Marcus Thornton, *and* Andrew Nicholson are all represented by the same agent -- *Beal's* agent. Is this true? And, if so, is this evidence that EG just took the path of least resistance when filling out the depth chart?

"Eh, as long as you're here...what else you got?"

Draft Express lists Thornton with Tony Dutt at Stealth Sports. Maybe he switched?

http://www.draftexpress.com/agents/agency/Stealth-Sports-179/

Priority published a press release announcing Thornton's deal with the Wizards, so presumably he's a part of their stable now.
http://www.prioritysports.biz/news/wizards-re-sign-marcus-thornton/20160804

And, here's RealGM's listing of Bartelstein's players (including Thornton):

http://basketball.realgm.com/info/agent-client-list/Mark-Bartelstein/15

In EG's defense, Bartelstein does represent a healthy swath of the league's mid-tier talent. Acc. to the RealGM chart, he represents four Bulls (Canaan, McBuckets, Portis, Gibson) three Wizards (Beal isn't listed), two players on the Pelicans and Lakers each. Still: it's clear that Bartelstein isn't cutting EG any volume discounts, so it seems to me that EG would be better off diversifying his player selections, rather than repeatedly dealing with one or two agencies.

[sfam]

I was listening to a recent ep of Truth About It's Pixel and Roll podcast (they've improved their audio quality from horrible to decent; kudos to them). They noted that Jason Smith, Marcus Thornton, *and* Andrew Nicholson are all represented by the same agent -- *Beal's* agent. Is this true? And, if so, is this evidence that EG just took the path of least resistance when filling out the depth chart?

"Eh, as long as you're here...what else you got?"

Draft Express lists Thornton with Tony Dutt at Stealth Sports. Maybe he switched?

http://www.draftexpress.com/agents/agency/Stealth-Sports-179/

Priority published a press release announcing Thornton's deal with the Wizards, so presumably he's a part of their stable now.
http://www.prioritysports.biz/news/wizards-re-sign-marcus-thornton/20160804

And, here's RealGM's listing of Bartelstein's players (including Thornton):

http://basketball.realgm.com/info/agent-client-list/Mark-Bartelstein/15

In EG's defense, Bartelstein does represent a healthy swath of the league's mid-tier talent. Acc. to the RealGM chart, he represents four Bulls (Canaan, McBuckets, Portis, Gibson) three Wizards (Beal isn't listed), two players on the Pelicans and Lakers each. Still: it's clear that Bartelstein isn't cutting EG any volume discounts, so it seems to me that EG would be better off diversifying his player selections, rather than repeatedly dealing with one or two agencies.

In EG's defense, it takes a lot of extra work if you have to deal with tons of agents. Just take a few, and overpay on a big deal, and then usually the cheap, **** deals are easy to work. Ya never know, sometimes it works!

[SizzlinSimms]

In another month we will get the annual Grunfeld trade for better or worse! Can't wait!

[Meliorus]

In another month we will get the annual Grunfeld trade for better or worse! Can't wait!

If we maintain the 5th seed or better until the trade deadline (2/23), the pick is safe.

[queridiculo]

In another month we will get the annual Grunfeld trade for better or worse! Can't wait!

If we maintain the 5th seed or better until the trade deadline (2/23), the pick is safe.

Bwahahaha, you must be new around here.

[Kanyewest]

In another month we will get the annual Grunfeld trade for better or worse! Can't wait!

If we maintain the 5th seed or better until the trade deadline (2/23), the pick is safe.

Bwahahaha, you must be new around here.

I don't remember a single instance when EG traded a first rounder at the deadline when the Wizards were projected to make the playoffs.

Sent from my LG-D851 using RealGM mobile app

[Meliorus]

If we maintain the 5th seed or better until the trade deadline (2/23), the pick is safe.

Bwahahaha, you must be new around here.

I don't remember a single instance when EG traded a first rounder at the deadline when the Wizards were projected to make the playoffs.

Sent from my LG-D851 using RealGM mobile app

He's not going to do it. There's no gaping hole in the starting lineup this year. We were starting Kris Humphries at PF and losing like crazy. There was a pressing need and he addressed it (varying degree of success). Our schedule is easy until we hit the deadline, we might even move up a spot.

There's way more sellers than buyers this deadline, Ernie is likely getting offered bench veterans for our 1st rounder left and right. Earlier in the season, there were reports that we were active, but we were well below .500 at that point.

The one time we traded our 1st rounder (Randy Foye trade), Ernie was pressured into making the move by Abe Polin, who had little time to live and wanted to make a run at the championship.

[payitforward]

...The one time we traded our 1st rounder (Randy Foye trade), Ernie was pressured into making the move by Abe Pollin, who had little time to live and wanted to make a run at the championship.

One time...?

One of the first things Ernie did here was trade the #5 pick in '04 for Antawn Jamison. This even though we also had no R1 pick in '05 -- don't recollect how that came about.

Ernie also traded our #1 pick in '14 for an expiring contract. Now, I'm a fan of Marcin Gortat. I wanted us to get him when he left Orlando, & we could have waited a season & signed w/o giving up any asset. IOW, it was a bad trade for a good player; it only came about because Ernie had no Plan B when our only Center, a 10 year veteran with a history of injuries, went down with another injury.

As to 2009, although it's clear that Pollin set the goal, he certainly didn't tell Ernie to trade for Randy Foye & Mike Miller! That particular move reflected Ernie's abilities as a judge of talent.

[Meliorus]

...The one time we traded our 1st rounder (Randy Foye trade), Ernie was pressured into making the move by Abe Pollin, who had little time to live and wanted to make a run at the championship.

One time...?

One of the first things Ernie did here was trade the #5 pick in '04 for Antawn Jamison. This even though we also had no R1 pick in '05 -- don't recollect how that came about.

Ernie also traded our #1 pick in '14 for an expiring contract. Now, I'm a fan of Marcin Gortat. I wanted us to get him when he left Orlando, & we could have waited a season & signed w/o giving up any asset. IOW, it was a bad trade for a good player; it only came about because Ernie had no Plan B when our only Center, a 10 year veteran with a history of injuries, went down with another injury.

As to 2009, although it's clear that Pollin set the goal, he certainly didn't tell Ernie to trade for Randy Foye & Mike Miller! That particular move reflected Ernie's abilities as a judge of talent.

I was trying to say that he hasn't traded 1st rounders when we had a playoff record. Don't know about the Jamison trade though.

[Kanyewest]

...The one time we traded our 1st rounder (Randy Foye trade), Ernie was pressured into making the move by Abe Pollin, who had little time to live and wanted to make a run at the championship.

One time...?

One of the first things Ernie did here was trade the #5 pick in '04 for Antawn Jamison. This even though we also had no R1 pick in '05 -- don't recollect how that came about.

Ernie also traded our #1 pick in '14 for an expiring contract. Now, I'm a fan of Marcin Gortat. I wanted us to get him when he left Orlando, & we could have waited a season & signed w/o giving up any asset. IOW, it was a bad trade for a good player; it only came about because Ernie had no Plan B when our only Center, a 10 year veteran with a history of injuries, went down with another injury.

As to 2009, although it's clear that Pollin set the goal, he certainly didn't tell Ernie to trade for Randy Foye & Mike Miller! That particular move reflected Ernie's abilities as a judge of talent.

Certainly a bad haul for talent but it did put the Wizards under the luxury tax, which probably limited EG's options. In retrospect, I'm really not sure why the Wizards didn't decide to blow it up after a 19 win season. And if the Wizards wanted to be competitive at all costs, I'm not sure why ownership didn't want to pay the luxury tax. But ultimately, it seemed like it was a move driven by ownership since the Wizards did go under the tax by trading Etan who had a trade kicker. Yet somehow manage to waste more money by selling their second rounder and getting Oberto.

I would like to here your explanation on how the Wizards would have signed Gortat in the 2014 offseason. In all likelihood, I see Gortat re-signing with Phoenix because in the summer 2014, the Suns are a playoff caliber team with Bledsoe/Dragic. The only reason Gortat was available was because Phoenix thought they were going to be terrible. Phoenix was not likely to let Gortat walk, Phoenix probably regrets it now given that the 1st round pick netted them nothing and they ended up signing Tyson Chandler to a worse deal than Gortat has.

Again the Wizards were not a playoff team in 2003, 2009, and 2016 when they traded for Jamison, Gortat, and Morris. Let's hope injuries don't strike again and the Wizards keep their 1st round pick instead of trading for a mediocre veteran, but you never know.

[closg00]

Fools Gold people, imagine what the Wizards could have accomplished sooner had someone competent been in-charge including this past off-season. The Mahinmi, Smith and Nicholson contracts was Ernie flailing around after the Durant/Horford humiliation.


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[montestewart]

One of the first things Ernie did here was trade the #5 pick in '04 for Antawn Jamison. This even though we also had no R1 pick in '05 -- don't recollect how that came about.

2001 trade with Orlando, Brendan Haywood for Laron Profit and the future pick. Don't know if any protection, but it was ultimately the 20th pick in 2005, used for Julius Hodge (who?), traded to Denver in 2004 for the 20th pick that year (Jameer Nelson).

That's an MJ trade (the last move he made before signing himself), and seems worth it. Haywood was drafted 20th in 2001. (Everyone was picked 20th!) EGg picked Blatchmo with the 49th pick in 2005, and occasionally that looked like it might be a real steal.

[Kanyewest]

One of the first things Ernie did here was trade the #5 pick in '04 for Antawn Jamison. This even though we also had no R1 pick in '05 -- don't recollect how that came about.

2001 trade with Orlando, Brendan Haywood for Laron Profit and the future pick. Don't know if any protection, but it was ultimately the 20th pick in 2005, used for Julius Hodge (who?), traded to Denver in 2004 for the 20th pick that year (Jameer Nelson).

That's an MJ trade (the last move he made before signing himself), and seems worth it. Haywood was drafted 20th in 2001. (Everyone was picked 20th!) EGg picked Blatchmo with the 49th pick in 2005, and occasionally that looked like it might be a real steal.

I would point out while Haywood was worth it (unlike that earlier pick in the 2001 draft), there were a few tradeoffs. There were better players on the board IIRC including Gilbert Arenas, Gerald Wallace, Okur, and Tony Parker. Also the Wizards were in a win now mode that forced them to trade for Jamison rather than take either Deng or Iggy since the pick would have lost its lottery protection. Therefore, the 2005 pick would have probably been higher, although that draft was primarily top heavy with point guards.

BTW, I believe MJ's last move was drafting Bobby Simmons.

[queridiculo]

Ahh, the old Pollin forced Ernie's hand story is making its rounds again.

Ernie has been quick to blame others for his shortcomings, wouldn't surprise me in the least if that's a story he floated at some point.