Official Speculation Thread 2016 Volume VII - Defense Wins Championships

[pepe1991]

Well: this is because the Magic has played 3 more games than the Sixers. But an interesting point it that Orlando can (eventually) push the lakers out of the bottom five. That is a draft win-win for the Magic.


..

Lakers lost 11 in a row i think? They are far advanced at tanking

and i remember when Walton was hired, with very little coaching experience except the easiest job in the world in coaching the Warriors, Laker fans thought they would take off under Walton.

They are kind a similar to Magic.Their young core simply didn't pan out well ( at least not yet ).
Russell is immature kid with lot of attitude issues that overshadow his talent . Randle is simply bad defender, Ingram is meh for 2# pick. Zubac ,who they took in second round could be something if he puts hard work into his body. And if you watch their games , Lou Williams and Young take most of the shots and young guys (especially Ingram) really has no role . He is just there to swing ball.


I think that they ,just like Magic, missed out with vets selection Deng and Mozgov play their roles and they are good at it ( MOzgov is still overpayed tho ). Lou and Nick are players for lower tear playoff teams ,guys who will get hot and win you few games. But with young guys they just kill their growth because they take shots from them . Same with Green and DJ Augustin with Magic.

[Shady Franchise]

Well: this is because the Magic has played 3 more games than the Sixers. But an interesting point it that Orlando can (eventually) push the lakers out of the bottom five. That is a draft win-win for the Magic.


..

Lakers lost 11 in a row i think? They are far advanced at tanking

and i remember when Walton was hired, with very little coaching experience except the easiest job in the world in coaching the Warriors, Laker fans thought they would take off under Walton.

Hmmm, this sounds very similar to what most Magic fans thought after the team hired Vogel.

[tiderulz]

Lakers lost 11 in a row i think? They are far advanced at tanking

and i remember when Walton was hired, with very little coaching experience except the easiest job in the world in coaching the Warriors, Laker fans thought they would take off under Walton.

Hmmm, this sounds very similar to what most Magic fans thought after the team hired Vogel.

Vogel at least had a track record and had been a head coach for awhile. but i agree, we all thought we would be turning around more than we did. Hard to tell if that is Vogel's fault or Hennigan's because of lack of talent on the team

[fendilim]

and i remember when Walton was hired, with very little coaching experience except the easiest job in the world in coaching the Warriors, Laker fans thought they would take off under Walton.

Hmmm, this sounds very similar to what most Magic fans thought after the team hired Vogel.

Vogel at least had a track record and had been a head coach for awhile. but i agree, we all thought we would be turning around more than we did. Hard to tell if that is Vogel's fault or Hennigan's because of lack of talent on the team

Honestly, I think its on the players as well.

The team has shown its capability to play good defense. We had a good stretch before December 2, I believe, where we were one of the top defensive teams in the league, then it all went downhill. Just like last year.

I mean, defense is most of the time just hard work, and why they don't bring it every night is definitely a concern. Vogel can only do so much, but its up to the players if they want to follow or not. Or maybe its the lack of motivation.

[OrlandO]

and i remember when Walton was hired, with very little coaching experience except the easiest job in the world in coaching the Warriors, Laker fans thought they would take off under Walton.

Hmmm, this sounds very similar to what most Magic fans thought after the team hired Vogel.

Vogel at least had a track record and had been a head coach for awhile. but i agree, we all thought we would be turning around more than we did. Hard to tell if that is Vogel's fault or Hennigan's because of lack of talent on the team

It's both. Hennigan has failed to deliver on star talent, but Vogel has also failed to show us anything that resembles a top tier coaching mind.

[ZeusIsLoose]

I will say I am more than a little disappointed in Vogel's coaching. On paper, you would think this team is better than last years but jesus, this team is straight garbage. Didn't Jacque Vaughn have a better D Rating for a couple of seasons with far less talent (i.e. Glen Davis!)

[PennytoShaq]

People have zero patience at all in Vogel. It's tragically comical. The Lakers have a pretty nice young core. In fact, many of the same people here were raving about when LA started the season well.

If you were an LA fan, what would your opinion be of Walton now?

Vogel got a roster with no scoring in a league that requires scoring. And people are mad because he is trying to win and playing veterans. That is what every coach does. Thibs has the best young roster in the NBA and wants to trade one of those guys for a vet asset. He is not winning either. Are Minnesota fans disappointed in him?

[axl_c_cool]

People have zero patience at all in Vogel. It's tragically comical. The Lakers have a pretty nice young core. In fact, many of the same people here were raving about when LA started the season well.

If you were an LA fan, what would your opinion be of Walton now?

Vogel got a roster with no scoring in a league that requires scoring. And people are mad because he is trying to win and playing veterans. That is what every coach does. Thibs has the best young roster in the NBA and wants to trade one of those guys for a vet asset. He is not winning either. Are Minnesota fans disappointed in him?

Vogel has close to zero responsibility for this teams recorded. Gordon and Payton have professed the most they ever have, other than that the roster is a mess and not what he asked for, it's not his team, yet.

Next season after a summer of trades and drafting he agrees with he has more responsibility, this here right now, not at all


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[PennytoShaq]

People have zero patience at all in Vogel. It's tragically comical. The Lakers have a pretty nice young core. In fact, many of the same people here were raving about when LA started the season well.

If you were an LA fan, what would your opinion be of Walton now?

Vogel got a roster with no scoring in a league that requires scoring. And people are mad because he is trying to win and playing veterans. That is what every coach does. Thibs has the best young roster in the NBA and wants to trade one of those guys for a vet asset. He is not winning either. Are Minnesota fans disappointed in him?

Vogel has close to zero responsibility for this teams recorded. Gordon and Payton have professed the most they ever have, other than that the roster is a mess and not what he asked for, it's not his team, yet.

Next season after a summer of trades and drafting he agrees with he has more responsibility, this here right now, not at all


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It's a huge point - Gordon and Payton have clearly gotten much better. Gordon's not really close to what he can be yet either.

[PrimeThyme]

Vogels coaching is outdated. In a league that is going small hes gone against the grain and gone big and its failed miserably. We can sit here and say all we want that Vogel wasn't given enough of a roster to work with but at the end of the day he had alot to do with the free agents we signed this summer and how this roster ended up. Rob has said multiple times that him and frank are joined at the hip when it comes to decisions made with this team. He wanted to go big and run lineups like he did in Indiana so we went out and got free agents so he could do that but that has proven to be a big mistake and one of Biz, Ibaka, or Vuc will be gone at the deadline because of it.

His rotations have been awful and hes shown really no willingness to change that. I mean the guy started Jeff green over Aaron Gordon for a stretch of the season, Vuc over Biz, Dj Augustin over Elf, and then started Jeff green at SG. His defense besides one month of the season has been none existent and worse than last years. We are statistically worse in almost every category on offense and defense than last year. We are projected to win 4 less games in year 5 of the rebuild then we did last year when most people said at the beginning of the season we had a much more talented roster. I think its fair to say that franks first year has been extremely unsuccessful, if not disastrous.

[drsd]

Too bad we didn't get Noel instead of Serge

Looks like he is going to be really really good

[Skin]

Do the people who are complaining about Vogel want us to try to win out the season or tank?

[PrimeThyme]

Do the people who are complaining about Vogel want us to try to win out the season or tank?

Tank, but it wouldn't matter either way. The schedule is much more difficult the rest of the way and they arent winning more than 30-32 games at best anyways. This team is going to tank whether they want to or not at this point.

[Mc-o]

Do the people who are complaining about Vogel want us to try to win out the season or tank?

At this point the team is organically tanking , i don't know what the answer is but hopefully what ever decision is made is a good one , from here on out .

[Jameerthefear]

Do the people who are complaining about Vogel want us to try to win out the season or tank?

Tank, but it wouldn't matter either way. The schedule is much more difficult the rest of the way and they arent winning more than 30-32 games at best anyways. This team is going to tank whether they want to or not at this point.

If we're going to tank we need to commit to it. 2-3 games could be the difference between a top 3 pick and like #7 or #8. No more halfassing it. If you need to move Vuc, do it.

[MagicFan4Lyfe]

Vogel still has my support. I think he is a good coach but it all boils down to talent in the NBA. You can't coach talent.

[PrimeThyme]

Do the people who are complaining about Vogel want us to try to win out the season or tank?

Tank, but it wouldn't matter either way. The schedule is much more difficult the rest of the way and they arent winning more than 30-32 games at best anyways. This team is going to tank whether they want to or not at this point.

If we're going to tank we need to commit to it. 2-3 games could be the difference between a top 3 pick and like #7 or #8. No more halfassing it. If you need to move Vuc, do it.

Completely agree. If you look at fivethirtyeights projections right now we are supposed to finish only behind the Lakers and Nets for the worst record at 30-52 but there are five teams projected to go 31-51 The tank race is going to be that close this year.

[rcklsscognition]

This really can come down to a #8 pick with 30 wins, or the #1 or #2 with 27. Let's get behind this run into the ground like we never have before.

[Skin]

It just doesn't make sense to want to tank, yet harass the coach for not winning. I don't get these people.

[OrlandO]

Losing has very little to do with why I'm unimpressed with Vogel in his first year. Good coaching and decision-making can shine even on a lottery team. A good coach would give us something positive to hang our hats on in a down year. We are not getting that out of Vogel. He hasn't had a positive impact on this team, and that should be considered a failure for a coach with a reputation as a top tier coach. If you can only mention his resume when defending him that just means you haven't been impressed with what he's done here either.