Offseason Thread: Perry/Bennett/Kendricks

They need talent. Period. I agree Capers is not a sexy re-hire and you can definitely make an argument his soft zones etc are catastrophic. BUT, it is clear to me the real issue on the defensive side of the ball is the inability to find impact talent - be it draft; udfa; or FA. That is on TT.

bizarro · Post #8 » by **bizarro** » Thu Jan 26, 2017 6:23 pm

In addition: I think this season may have been mM's finest job as HC of the Packers. I truly do. Handcuffed by injuries, a lack of talent, a lack of veteran presence...he and the staff fought their way to the conference championship. It's actually kind of unreal. How that team beat Dallas in dallas with the makeshift secondary they had by season's end is nothing short of remarkable. And, I've said this before but I think it was more true this year: we can say what we want concerning MM's lack of in-game creativity and clock management (and, I definitely agree: it leaves a lot to be desired often and leaves you head-scratching), BUT, his teams always always fight. It's an impressive trait, imho. I am actually more a MM fan today than I was to begin the season and, honestly, I'm shocked to admit it.

Iheartfootball · Post #9 » by **Iheartfootball** » Thu Jan 26, 2017 6:33 pm

Did anyone ask MM why the defense was terrible? If they aren't getting rid of Capers I guess they are just blaming one of the worst defenses in the league on injuries.

GBPackers47 · Post #10 » by **GBPackers47** » Thu Jan 26, 2017 7:12 pm

bizarro wrote:They need talent. Period. I agree Capers is not a sexy re-hire and you can definitely make an argument his soft zones etc are catastrophic. BUT, it is clear to me the real issue on the defensive side of the ball is the inability to find impact talent - be it draft; udfa; or FA. That is on TT.

I'm assuming we had one of the worst, if not the worst, set of CBs throughout this year. Any defensive coach would struggle with guys like Gunter and Randall. That problem is 100% on Ted Thompson. But the problem I have with Capers is he doesn't adjust based on that talent (or lack thereof) and doesn't adjust the scheme to put guys in positions to play to their strengths. It's no secret Gunter is not a No. 1 and he doesn't have the speed to keep up with opposing 1s, so why the hell were we still leaving him in single coverage on Julio Jones for even one play?

The "TT didn't do his job so now Dom can't do his" narrative is getting old. That excuse would never work in another environment, so why do we accept it for the Packers? Dom's responsibility is to run the defense with players given to him. If he truly believes he can't do his job because Ted Thompson doesn't give him quality talent, then why does he keep the job year after year? If Dom is the genius everyone makes him out to be, shouldn't teams be lining up for his services, and shouldn't he be more than eager to take a job with a GM that will give him talent?

Post #11 » by **MickeyDavis** » Thu Jan 26, 2017 7:20 pm

Offensive coach leaves, Capers stays. Makes sense.

Post #12 » by **MickeyDavis** » Thu Jan 26, 2017 7:22 pm

"This is no time for drama," McCarthy said. "Dom Capers is an outstanding football coach. That doesn't change. He had a tough challenge in front of him this year, and once again that coaching staff dealt with a lot. I think clearly if you look at the way the team was motivated, the way they were prepared, the things we were able to do, the adjustments we made, it's all part of it. So, a lot of good things came out of that."

Post #13 » by **MickeyDavis** » Thu Jan 26, 2017 7:23 pm

"Ted is back," McCarthy said. "I don't know where the heck some of these articles come from. I don't see any change in him as far as his vision ... he's working, I don't see any change in that."

Ron Swanson · Post #14 » by **Ron Swanson** » Thu Jan 26, 2017 7:26 pm

Unreal. Longest tenured DC in the league, and in that time we haven't had a top-10 ranked defense in points allowed since 2010.

:thumbsup:

LUKE23 · Post #15 » by **LUKE23** » Thu Jan 26, 2017 8:01 pm

36.3 ppg allowed in Rodgers playoff losses and 44+ 3 times. If it's broke...don't fix it.

jakecronus8 · Post #16 » by **jakecronus8** » Thu Jan 26, 2017 8:41 pm

I'm fine with it. I think you're being disingenuous if you say the problem with the defense was scheme related. Capers lost a true #1 cover corner to a career ending injury, and so many other injuries to corners that they were using Gunter as their #1 by season's end (OT-I was actually encouraged by what I saw from him). If you lose Kentrell Brice in a playoff game and it's devastating, there's not much more you can do. I also don't believe many if any saw the regression of Rollins and Randall coming, as both had shown tons of promise throughout their rookie seasons. I also don't recall many losing sleep when they let Casey hayward walk. In fact, I remember a lot of gloating about Ted's ability to draft and develop corners. I digress.

Clay Matthews was abysmal after moving back outside. Many have said we need to give him an ultimatum to restructure his deal in order for him to return. It's been pointed out that the Packers don't have much if any leverage as given the lack of talent in the upcoming free agent pool, Matthews would likely be highly coveted if the Packers did indeed release him. I think they need to move Clay back inside. Besides him being a tremendous defensive QB there last season, he doesn't see as much contact and would likely help prevent those nagging injuries.

Peppers comes off the books this offseason. I wouldn't be opposed to bringing him back one season if he truly was able to swallow the pride and take a vet minimum deal. As an exclusive third down rusher playing 10-12 snaps a game I think he can still offer something, and provide a veteran voice in the locker room.

Nick Perry's situation is a conundrum. His injury/performance history have been spotty to say the least, but I think they have to bring him back even if it means ponying up to do so. Despite him magically having his best season miraculously in his prove it contract year, he's always been able to set the edge which is a valuable trait. You also know Thompson will not dip into free agency for a big time target so unless you plan on drafting a slew of pass rushers and banking on them, it only makes sense. Datone Jones is a guy I could see getting a similar deal to Perry last year. You've invested so much time and resources into developing a guy who admittedly has a ton of athletic ability. Unless he gets an out of left field contract, try to give him one more season to break out.

A lot of people won't agree with me, but the biggest need in my opinion defensively is a traditional nose. Clark looked solid especially toward the end of the season, but not like a first round guy. Guys like Guion are just that, guys. There are a few traditional fat boys potentially available in free agency, so if Ted is inclined to spend at all, I hope it's there. (Poe!!!!!!!!!!!!)

jlyons043 · Post #17 » by **jlyons043** » Thu Jan 26, 2017 8:45 pm

jakecronus8 wrote:I'm fine with it. I think you're being disingenuous if you say the problem with the defense was scheme related. Capers lost a true #1 cover corner to a career ending injury, and so many other injuries to corners that they were using Gunter as their #1 by season's end (OT-I was actually encouraged by what I saw from him). If you lose Kentrell Brice in a playoff game and it's devastating, there's not much more you can do. I also don't believe many if any saw the regression of Rollins and Randall coming, as both had shown tons of promise throughout their rookie seasons. I also don't recall many losing sleep when they let Casey hayward walk. In fact, I remember a lot of gloating about Ted's ability to draft and develop corners. I digress.

Clay Matthews was abysmal after moving back outside. Many have said we need to give him an ultimatum to restructure his deal in order for him to return. It's been pointed out that the Packers don't have much if any leverage as given the lack of talent in the upcoming free agent pool, Matthews would likely be highly coveted if the Packers did indeed release him. I think they need to move Clay back inside. Besides him being a tremendous defensive QB there last season, he doesn't see as much contact and would likely help prevent those nagging injuries.

Peppers comes off the books this offseason. I wouldn't be opposed to bringing him back one season if he truly was able to swallow the pride and take a vet minimum deal. As an exclusive third down rusher playing 10-12 snaps a game I think he can still offer something, and provide a veteran voice in the locker room.

Nick Perry's situation is a conundrum. His injury/performance history have been spotty to say the least, but I think they have to bring him back even if it means ponying up to do so. Despite him magically having his best season miraculously in his prove it contract year, he's always been able to set the edge which is a valuable trait. You also know Thompson will not dip into free agency for a big time target so unless you plan on drafting a slew of pass rushers and banking on them, it only makes sense. Datone Jones is a guy I could see getting a similar deal to Perry last year. You've invested so much time and resources into developing a guy who admittedly has a ton of athletic ability. Unless he gets an out of left field contract, try to give him one more season to break out.

A lot of people won't agree with me, but the biggest need in my opinion defensively is a traditional nose. Clark looked solid especially toward the end of the season, but not like a first round guy. Guys like Guion are just that, guys. There are a few traditional fat boys potentially available in free agency, so if Ted is inclined to spend at all, I hope it's there. (Poe!!!!!!!!!!!!)

Too bad these issues have been occurring for more than just this season.

jakecronus8 · Post #18 » by **jakecronus8** » Thu Jan 26, 2017 8:48 pm

jlyons043 wrote:
jakecronus8 wrote:I'm fine with it. I think you're being disingenuous if you say the problem with the defense was scheme related. Capers lost a true #1 cover corner to a career ending injury, and so many other injuries to corners that they were using Gunter as their #1 by season's end (OT-I was actually encouraged by what I saw from him). If you lose Kentrell Brice in a playoff game and it's devastating, there's not much more you can do. I also don't believe many if any saw the regression of Rollins and Randall coming, as both had shown tons of promise throughout their rookie seasons. I also don't recall many losing sleep when they let Casey hayward walk. In fact, I remember a lot of gloating about Ted's ability to draft and develop corners. I digress.

Clay Matthews was abysmal after moving back outside. Many have said we need to give him an ultimatum to restructure his deal in order for him to return. It's been pointed out that the Packers don't have much if any leverage as given the lack of talent in the upcoming free agent pool, Matthews would likely be highly coveted if the Packers did indeed release him. I think they need to move Clay back inside. Besides him being a tremendous defensive QB there last season, he doesn't see as much contact and would likely help prevent those nagging injuries.

Peppers comes off the books this offseason. I wouldn't be opposed to bringing him back one season if he truly was able to swallow the pride and take a vet minimum deal. As an exclusive third down rusher playing 10-12 snaps a game I think he can still offer something, and provide a veteran voice in the locker room.

Nick Perry's situation is a conundrum. His injury/performance history have been spotty to say the least, but I think they have to bring him back even if it means ponying up to do so. Despite him magically having his best season miraculously in his prove it contract year, he's always been able to set the edge which is a valuable trait. You also know Thompson will not dip into free agency for a big time target so unless you plan on drafting a slew of pass rushers and banking on them, it only makes sense. Datone Jones is a guy I could see getting a similar deal to Perry last year. You've invested so much time and resources into developing a guy who admittedly has a ton of athletic ability. Unless he gets an out of left field contract, try to give him one more season to break out.

A lot of people won't agree with me, but the biggest need in my opinion defensively is a traditional nose. Clark looked solid especially toward the end of the season, but not like a first round guy. Guys like Guion are just that, guys. There are a few traditional fat boys potentially available in free agency, so if Ted is inclined to spend at all, I hope it's there. (Poe!!!!!!!!!!!!)

Too bad these issues have been occurring for more than just this season.

The years Capers has had a bevy of talent to work with the d has looked great. Tough to replace a hall of famer (Woodson) and potential hall of famer (Collins). Does the best with what he's given.

jakecronus8 · Post #19 » by **jakecronus8** » Thu Jan 26, 2017 8:49 pm

To be fair, im fine either way with Capers staying or leaving. I just don't think replacing him and keeping the same personnel would have the magical effect many Packers fans think.

jlyons043 · Post #20 » by **jlyons043** » Thu Jan 26, 2017 8:51 pm

jakecronus8 wrote:
jlyons043 wrote:
jakecronus8 wrote:I'm fine with it. I think you're being disingenuous if you say the problem with the defense was scheme related. Capers lost a true #1 cover corner to a career ending injury, and so many other injuries to corners that they were using Gunter as their #1 by season's end (OT-I was actually encouraged by what I saw from him). If you lose Kentrell Brice in a playoff game and it's devastating, there's not much more you can do. I also don't believe many if any saw the regression of Rollins and Randall coming, as both had shown tons of promise throughout their rookie seasons. I also don't recall many losing sleep when they let Casey hayward walk. In fact, I remember a lot of gloating about Ted's ability to draft and develop corners. I digress.

Clay Matthews was abysmal after moving back outside. Many have said we need to give him an ultimatum to restructure his deal in order for him to return. It's been pointed out that the Packers don't have much if any leverage as given the lack of talent in the upcoming free agent pool, Matthews would likely be highly coveted if the Packers did indeed release him. I think they need to move Clay back inside. Besides him being a tremendous defensive QB there last season, he doesn't see as much contact and would likely help prevent those nagging injuries.

Peppers comes off the books this offseason. I wouldn't be opposed to bringing him back one season if he truly was able to swallow the pride and take a vet minimum deal. As an exclusive third down rusher playing 10-12 snaps a game I think he can still offer something, and provide a veteran voice in the locker room.

Nick Perry's situation is a conundrum. His injury/performance history have been spotty to say the least, but I think they have to bring him back even if it means ponying up to do so. Despite him magically having his best season miraculously in his prove it contract year, he's always been able to set the edge which is a valuable trait. You also know Thompson will not dip into free agency for a big time target so unless you plan on drafting a slew of pass rushers and banking on them, it only makes sense. Datone Jones is a guy I could see getting a similar deal to Perry last year. You've invested so much time and resources into developing a guy who admittedly has a ton of athletic ability. Unless he gets an out of left field contract, try to give him one more season to break out.

A lot of people won't agree with me, but the biggest need in my opinion defensively is a traditional nose. Clark looked solid especially toward the end of the season, but not like a first round guy. Guys like Guion are just that, guys. There are a few traditional fat boys potentially available in free agency, so if Ted is inclined to spend at all, I hope it's there. (Poe!!!!!!!!!!!!)

Too bad these issues have been occurring for more than just this season.

The years Capers has had a bevy of talent to work with the d has looked great. Tough to replace a hall of famer (Woodson) and potential hall of famer (Collins). Does the best with what he's given.

What years was the defense great besides 2010?

And to your other comment I agree, dumping Capers doesn't automatically improve our D, but at this point is it really that big of a risk to go with someone else?