Official Trade Thread - Part XXXII

[Meliorus]

Hey, I'm trying to get though this trade deadline without giving up a 1st or other valuable asset. Do you really think EG isn't going to make a win now move with the way the team is playing right now?

Ernie is delusional in the sense that he thinks we're a win now team as currently constructed. Add Mahinmi in the mix (who he believes in dearly), and he's very confident in what we have.

His mindset: "We're the hottest team in the East so I'm not going to trade anyone to upset the balance/chemistry. If it's not broken, don't fix it."

So if he makes a trade to help the team, you complain about being "buyers" and moving assets, if he stands pat, you complain about him not doing anything.

You do realize that you literally twist everything into a ridiculous narrative, atleast other Ernie haters can be somewhat objective on here. You would complain about Ernie trading a 3rd round pick for Michael Jordan.

He missed his opportunity to upgrade the team. That was the whole point of the past 2 summers. Since he didn't accomplish anything, now it's imperative to stand pat and keep our picks. It's the only way to increase our team's ceiling. 30 year old veterans are not the answer unless you think we are currently a contender. I do not think we're a contender.

[gambitx777]

Hey, I'm trying to get though this trade deadline without giving up a 1st or other valuable asset. Do you really think EG isn't going to make a win now move with the way the team is playing right now?

Ernie is delusional in the sense that he thinks we're a win now team as currently constructed. Add Mahinmi in the mix (who he believes in dearly), and he's very confident in what we have.

His mindset: "We're the hottest team in the East so I'm not going to trade anyone to upset the balance/chemistry. If it's not broken, don't fix it."

So if he makes a trade to help the team, you complain about being "buyers" and moving assets, if he stands pat, you complain about him not doing anything.

You do realize that you literally twist everything into a ridiculous narrative, atleast other Ernie haters can be somewhat objective on here. You would complain about Ernie trading a 3rd round pick for Michael Jordan.

Yeah LIke I wish we did not have EG, but I at least give him a fair shake. I don't hold mahinmi aginst him even if he was overpaid by 3-6 million bucks. His knees giving out was just bad luck. But I do think that this may be the best chance we have to make a stand in the east. The hawks are selling, The celtics and raptors are beatable teams and the Cav's are showing cracks. If we can't find a way to move Mahinmi and replace him with someone younger, like Vucivic or Nurkic. Then I think our best move is to find a back up point guard, Like nelson or jack. And make a trade to bring in either another low level starting 4 (to either move morris to the bench or to back him up) or and a higher caliber bench shooter. someone to back up beal who can also handle the ball and play next to tomas to hide his weak offence until it develops. Like an evans or will barton or tim hardaway or seth curry. Maybe you dust off lance to worst case trade burke or a second for vince carter. Maybe we can pull a trade with chicago. For Rando and in exchange get Mirotic or Portis in the deal? Im sure if we offered a 2019 top ten protected first and mahinmi and burke they might just bite on that.

[pcbothwel]

Ok Guys, I had given up on any in-season trade as we have too many restrictions:

1) We dont have any bench assets outside Oubre to consolidate into a better player... our bench is garbage
2) We cant take on salary for next year as it will result in us going into the Lux tax when we re-sign Otto
3) We cant give up our 1st for a rental, we're simply not good enough... yet

With those three constraints, I didnt really see an avenue for a trade. But the Melo situation got me intrigued and i think I found a trade that allows to compete for the ECF and also keep salary low enough next year to not get into the Tax:

WAS In: JJ Redick, Kyke O'Quinn
WAS Out: 2017 1st unportected, Burke, Nicholson

LAC In: Melo, Burke
LAC Out: JJ, Crawford, and Wes Johnson

NYK: In: Crawford, Nicholson, Johnson, 2017 1st (WAS), 2021 1st (LAC)
NYK Out: Melo, O'Quinn

Wall / Sato
Beal / JJ / Mclellan
Otto / Oubre
Morris / O'Quinn / Otto
Gortat / Mahinmi / O'Quinn

That is a STRONG team. Hell, that 2nd unit could probably win 35-40 games by themselves.
Next year, we let JJ walk and keep O'Quinn for 4M. Net effect is us saving 2M (Nicholson vs O'Quinn) and re-sign Otto with no worries.

This satisfies the 3 restrictions:
1) It makes our bench stronger without losing starter
2) We actually drop salary
3) We give up our 1st, but keep O'Quinn moving forward

I'd hate to lose our 1st, but if Mahinmi comes back healthy, we can trade Gortat this summer for a late 1st and move O'Quinn into the backup role...
Thoughts?

[Meliorus]

Ernie is delusional in the sense that he thinks we're a win now team as currently constructed. Add Mahinmi in the mix (who he believes in dearly), and he's very confident in what we have.

His mindset: "We're the hottest team in the East so I'm not going to trade anyone to upset the balance/chemistry. If it's not broken, don't fix it."

So if he makes a trade to help the team, you complain about being "buyers" and moving assets, if he stands pat, you complain about him not doing anything.

You do realize that you literally twist everything into a ridiculous narrative, atleast other Ernie haters can be somewhat objective on here. You would complain about Ernie trading a 3rd round pick for Michael Jordan.

Yeah LIke I wish we did not have EG, but I at least give him a fair shake. I don't hold mahinmi aginst him even if he was overpaid by 3-6 million bucks. His knees giving out was just bad luck. But I do think that this may be the best chance we have to make a stand in the east. The hawks are selling, The celtics and raptors are beatable teams and the Cav's are showing cracks. If we can't find a way to move Mahinmi and replace him with someone younger, like Vucivic or Nurkic. Then I think our best move is to find a back up point guard, Like nelson or jack. And make a trade to bring in either another low level starting 4 (to either move morris to the bench or to back him up) or and a higher caliber bench shooter. someone to back up beal who can also handle the ball and play next to tomas to hide his weak offence until it develops. Like an evans or will barton or tim hardaway or seth curry. Maybe you dust off lance to worst case trade burke or a second for vince carter. Maybe we can pull a trade with chicago. For Rando and in exchange get Mirotic or Portis in the deal? Im sure if we offered a 2019 top ten protected first and mahinmi and burke they might just bite on that.

I don't hold Ernie accountable for Manhimi. I think he's a great player when healthy, one of the best defensive centers in the league and a good pick and roll big. However in recent years, I mostly hold him accountable for standing pat in the summer of 2015 in an attempt to save cap for KD2DC. That was a ridiculous move considering the harsh reality that we were never considered. If we signed players on long term deals in 2015, those contracts would have been incredible in the current cap situation.

[dckingsfan]

Ernie is delusional in the sense that he thinks we're a win now team as currently constructed. Add Mahinmi in the mix (who he believes in dearly), and he's very confident in what we have.

His mindset: "We're the hottest team in the East so I'm not going to trade anyone to upset the balance/chemistry. If it's not broken, don't fix it."

So if he makes a trade to help the team, you complain about being "buyers" and moving assets, if he stands pat, you complain about him not doing anything.

You do realize that you literally twist everything into a ridiculous narrative, atleast other Ernie haters can be somewhat objective on here. You would complain about Ernie trading a 3rd round pick for Michael Jordan.

What's an "Ernie hater" Nat? Is that a guy who thinks 14 years at @ a .42 winning percentage is too much?

As to people complaining too much about trades, why don't you list some of those terrific trades you think Ernie has made?

Ernie Grunfeld, by any objective measure, is one of the least effective, least successful GMs in the last 2 decades of the NBA. Wouldn't you agree?

I will help NatP4 with the question you asked. Ernie Grunfeld, by any objective measure, is one of the least effective, least successful GMs in the last 2 decades of the NBA. Wouldn't you agree?

YES!

[dckingsfan]

Mahimni + Nicholson + two unprotected 1sts for Anthony and Hernangomez.

Slice this trade to shreds please

[Meliorus]

If you think we are in a 2nd tier far behind Cleveland/GS/SAS, here are the only circumstances under which we should trade any 1st rounder:

Must be 26 years or younger (players who will age at the same time as our core, players who have upside/won't fall off a cliff)
Must be on a long-term contract (no 1 year rentals)
Must be a PF/C
Must be good enough to move either Markieff or Gortat to the bench

This leaves the following options:
PF: Draymond Green, Anthony Davis, Kristaps Porzingis, Jon Leur (maybe)
Center: Demarcus Cousins, Nikola Jokic, Rudy Gobert, Joel Embiid, Steven Adams, Karl Anthony Towns, Myles Turner, Cody Zeller (maybe), Nerlens Noel (can't afford this summer), Lucas Nogueria (maybe)

Since none of these players are available/not enough assets to acquire them/not worth acquiring, the dominant strategy is to stand pat and draft players who could potentially increase our collective roster upside.

However, if you think we are on the fringe of contention, the best strategy is to trade our 2017 1st rounder and whatever 2nd rounders needed to make major upgrades to the bench. Create whatever 3 team, 4 team trades necessary to get us a point guard, wing scorer, and stretch 4.

[dckingsfan]

Our POTY, milellie111, says we are this close (fingers very close together).

[Dat2U]

Mahimni + Nicholson + two unprotected 1sts for Anthony and Hernangomez.

Slice this trade to shreds please

Hmmm... Getting Mahinmi AND Nicholson off the cap almost makes it worth it. Hernangomez looks like a player too. If there was some protection on the second 1st I'd probably do it. I don't know if Phil Jackson would do it because Mahinmi & Nicholson would be utterly useless on his roster.

Melo at the 4 potentially makes us an offensive juggernaut. He'll be much more efficient with less touches and a real PG getting it to him in his spots. Morris & Hernangomez off the bench makes it much stronger. The way the Raps & Cavs are struggling I'd say we'd be a backup PG away from making a strong run at the Cavs in the EC Finals.

[Dat2U]

If you think we are in a 2nd tier far behind Cleveland/GS/SAS, here are the only circumstances under which we should trade any 1st rounder:

Must be 26 years or younger (players who will age at the same time as our core, players who have upside/won't fall off a cliff)
Must be on a long-term contract (no 1 year rentals)
Must be a PF/C
Must be good enough to move either Markieff or Gortat to the bench

This leaves the following options:
PF: Draymond Green, Anthony Davis, Kristaps Porzingis, Jon Leur (maybe)
Center: Demarcus Cousins, Nikola Jokic, Rudy Gobert, Joel Embiid, Steven Adams, Karl Anthony Towns, Myles Turner, Cody Zeller (maybe), Nerlens Noel (maybe), Lucas Nogueria (maybe)

Since none of these players are available/not enough assets to acquire them/not worth acquiring, the dominant strategy is to stand pat and draft players who could potentially increase our collective roster upside.

However, if you think we are on the fringe of contention, the best strategy is to trade our 2017 1st rounder and whatever 2nd rounders needed to make major upgrades to the bench. Create whatever 3 team, 4 team trades necessary to get us a point guard, wing scorer, and stretch 4.

Were in 2nd tier far far behind GS & SAS. I'm about ready to put the Cavs in the 2nd tier as well but at the top of the 2nd tier. LeBron is right... they need help, especially with Delly & Mozgov out the door last offseason and JR Smith out. Just like us they are one injury away from disaster.

I desperately want an upgrade over Gortat/Morris but don't see an immediate option available. We can rule out Noel now. He'll cost too much next off-season to keep him and Otto. The worst part about last off-season, we now can't take on any salary because of Porter's impending deal and it pushing us to the lux tax. Any deal we make has to be salary neutral or save us some money.

[Ruzious]

Mahimni + Nicholson + two unprotected 1sts for Anthony and Hernangomez.

Slice this trade to shreds please

Hmmm... Getting Mahinmi AND Nicholson off the cap almost makes it worth it. Hernangomez looks like a player too. If there was some protection on the second 1st I'd probably do it. I don't know if Phil Jackson would do it because Mahinmi & Nicholson would be utterly useless on his roster.

Melo at the 4 potentially makes us an offensive juggernaut. He'll be much more efficient with less touches and a real PG getting it to him in his spots. Morris & Hernangomez off the bench makes it much stronger. The way the Raps & Cavs are struggling I'd say we'd be a backup PG away from making a strong run at the Cavs in the EC Finals.

Even getting rid of those 2 contracts, it'd still add about 7 mil a year to the Wiz cap - knocking them well into lux tax land. And Phil wouldn't make that trade. Hernangomez himself might be worth close to the value of those 2 late firsts.

[Dat2U]

Mahimni + Nicholson + two unprotected 1sts for Anthony and Hernangomez.

Slice this trade to shreds please

Hmmm... Getting Mahinmi AND Nicholson off the cap almost makes it worth it. Hernangomez looks like a player too. If there was some protection on the second 1st I'd probably do it. I don't know if Phil Jackson would do it because Mahinmi & Nicholson would be utterly useless on his roster.

Melo at the 4 potentially makes us an offensive juggernaut. He'll be much more efficient with less touches and a real PG getting it to him in his spots. Morris & Hernangomez off the bench makes it much stronger. The way the Raps & Cavs are struggling I'd say we'd be a backup PG away from making a strong run at the Cavs in the EC Finals.

Even getting rid of those 2 contracts, it'd still add about 7 mil a year to the Wiz cap - knocking them well into lux tax land. And Phil wouldn't make that trade. Hernangomez himself might be worth close to the value of those 2 late firsts.

So you mean Jason Smith wouldn't tip the scales?

[Ruzious]

Hmmm... Getting Mahinmi AND Nicholson off the cap almost makes it worth it. Hernangomez looks like a player too. If there was some protection on the second 1st I'd probably do it. I don't know if Phil Jackson would do it because Mahinmi & Nicholson would be utterly useless on his roster.

Melo at the 4 potentially makes us an offensive juggernaut. He'll be much more efficient with less touches and a real PG getting it to him in his spots. Morris & Hernangomez off the bench makes it much stronger. The way the Raps & Cavs are struggling I'd say we'd be a backup PG away from making a strong run at the Cavs in the EC Finals.

Even getting rid of those 2 contracts, it'd still add about 7 mil a year to the Wiz cap - knocking them well into lux tax land. And Phil wouldn't make that trade. Hernangomez himself might be worth close to the value of those 2 late firsts.

So you mean Jason Smith wouldn't tip the scales?

I think AFM has veto power over any such move.

[ozthegap]

Can we trade our 1st and someone for Jordan clarkson? People here L.A are saying that he's not the type of guard you want next to Russell. They want a true point so they can move Russell to the off guard position. Clarkson is a combo guard that would be perfect off our bench.

[payitforward]

Were in 2nd tier far far behind GS & SAS. I'm about ready to put the Cavs in the 2nd tier as well but at the top of the 2nd tier. LeBron is right... they need help, especially with Delly & Mozgov out the door last offseason and JR Smith out. Just like us they are one injury away from disaster.

I desperately want an upgrade over Gortat/Morris but don't see an immediate option available. We can rule out Noel now. He'll cost too much next off-season to keep him and Otto. The worst part about last off-season, we now can't take on any salary because of Porter's impending deal and it pushing us to the lux tax. Any deal we make has to be salary neutral or save us some money.

I don't agree that we are in 2d tier, but "tiers" are subjective enough that their breakdown tends towards some arbitrariness anyway. What I do agree with is that the last off season really damaged our ability to craft the roster going forward. This is a problem that needs to be solved.

We all agree that Beal is much improved, but he may offer the best opportunity to solve the problem. It's not that I want to trade him, but it might be the best move all the same. Not saying I'm sure of this, just wondering whether it's something to think about.

Would the 76ers see Bradley Beal as worth Noel, Richaun Holmes, T.J. McConnell, & their top R1 pick this year? Would we?

Even better would be to get Smith to them as well in that deal (on the assumption that they would not take Nicholson).

Obviously, Noel's likely next contract $$$ are critical in deciding on something like this. I wonder how much he'll command. Will someone offer him the max? Does every high pick coming off his rookie contract get it?

I doubt there's much appreciation for McConnell here, but in fact, aside from scoring he is really outstanding. He's played a lot of minutes; take a look at his numbers before any knee jerk reaction.

Obviously, we'd be faced with a big problem as to who'd play SG the rest of this year! Obviously as well, this ain't the kind of trade Ernie would be likely to make anyway!

Plus side is we could afford Porter; we'd have 2 pretty high draft picks from an outstanding draft, we'd have our backup point guard, we'd have a young & talented duo of bigs, & we'd be in a position to trade Gortat for a good young SG (assuming that's possible).

Terrible idea? Good idea but details wrong? Couldn't be done? What?

[payitforward]

Can we trade our 1st and someone for Jordan clarkson? People here L.A are saying that he's not the type of guard you want next to Russell. They want a true point so they can move Russell to the off guard position. Clarkson is a combo guard that would be perfect off our bench.

Jordan Clarkson was quite a bargain @#46 in the draft, & it was idiotic to give the pick away for a little cash as Ernie did. But, he hasn't played nearly well enough to be worth a mid-R1 pick in this draft. Let alone add someone to the mix.

[Ruzious]

Can we trade our 1st and someone for Jordan clarkson? People here L.A are saying that he's not the type of guard you want next to Russell. They want a true point so they can move Russell to the off guard position. Clarkson is a combo guard that would be perfect off our bench.

Not unless we include Mahinmi. Clarkson's getting paid 12.5 next season and 13.4 the season after. Besides, Grunfeld traded the pick used to pick Clarkson for 2 or 2.5 million. Trading for him would highlight that big mistake.

[payitforward]

Can we trade our 1st and someone for Jordan clarkson? People here L.A are saying that he's not the type of guard you want next to Russell. They want a true point so they can move Russell to the off guard position. Clarkson is a combo guard that would be perfect off our bench.

Not unless we include Mahinmi. Clarkson's getting paid 12.5 next season and 13.4 the season after. Besides, Grunfeld traded the pick used to pick Clarkson for 2 or 2.5 million. Trading for him would highlight that big mistake.

Definitive...!

[pcbothwel]

Can we trade our 1st and someone for Jordan clarkson? People here L.A are saying that he's not the type of guard you want next to Russell. They want a true point so they can move Russell to the off guard position. Clarkson is a combo guard that would be perfect off our bench.

Jordan Clarkson was quite a bargain @#46 in the draft, & it was idiotic to give the pick away for a little cash as Ernie did. But, he hasn't played nearly well enough to be worth a mid-R1 pick in this draft. Let alone add someone to the mix.

Thanks Pif... while Clarkson is not as bad as brandon knight, he aint that much better. I dont really dont get the fascination.. is he really much better than Burke?

http://bkref.com/tiny/vClsU

[Ruzious]

Were in 2nd tier far far behind GS & SAS. I'm about ready to put the Cavs in the 2nd tier as well but at the top of the 2nd tier. LeBron is right... they need help, especially with Delly & Mozgov out the door last offseason and JR Smith out. Just like us they are one injury away from disaster.

I desperately want an upgrade over Gortat/Morris but don't see an immediate option available. We can rule out Noel now. He'll cost too much next off-season to keep him and Otto. The worst part about last off-season, we now can't take on any salary because of Porter's impending deal and it pushing us to the lux tax. Any deal we make has to be salary neutral or save us some money.

I don't agree that we are in 2d tier, but "tiers" are subjective enough that their breakdown tends towards some arbitrariness anyway. What I do agree with is that the last off season really damaged our ability to craft the roster going forward. This is a problem that needs to be solved.

We all agree that Beal is much improved, but he may offer the best opportunity to solve the problem. It's not that I want to trade him, but it might be the best move all the same. Not saying I'm sure of this, just wondering whether it's something to think about.

Would the 76ers see Bradley Beal as worth Noel, Richaun Holmes, T.J. McConnell, & their top R1 pick this year? Would we?

Even better would be to get Smith to them as well in that deal (on the assumption that they would not take Nicholson).

Obviously, Noel's likely next contract $$$ are critical in deciding on something like this. I wonder how much he'll command. Will someone offer him the max? Does every high pick coming off his rookie contract get it?

I doubt there's much appreciation for McConnell here, but in fact, aside from scoring he is really outstanding. He's played a lot of minutes; take a look at his numbers before any knee jerk reaction.

Obviously, we'd be faced with a big problem as to who'd play SG the rest of this year! Obviously as well, this ain't the kind of trade Ernie would be likely to make anyway!

Plus side is we could afford Porter; we'd have 2 pretty high draft picks from an outstanding draft, we'd have our backup point guard, we'd have a young & talented duo of bigs, & we'd be in a position to trade Gortat for a good young SG (assuming that's possible).

Terrible idea? Good idea but details wrong? Couldn't be done? What?

Then pick Monk with the Philly pick. I would do it. I think Philly would consider it. But I think there would be an uproar from the Bealodites.