The (Quadruple) Trade Thread, 2017 (Part 4.0)

[Parliament10]

He's soft and inefficient. His TS% is below .500, which is terrible for a big man. He's slow in his rotations and not a strong defender. He doesn't fit in Stevens system well.

Orlando has had a big man glut since the pre-season, and Vuc complained about it. He cares more about getting his stats than winning. I don't think he makes us any more competitive against Toronto and would rather use the assets we'd trade to acquire him to get an actual physical force down low.

You do know, that he's a 14-10, on a bad day?
At a Sweet-Deal of a Contract?

There is more to the game of basketball than counting stats.

And, for what it's worth, he could only grab 7 rebounds against Jerebko/Amir/Olynyk, who are not exactly a murderers row of big men.

Whatever happened last night, was only one fluke game.
Vučević, is a Career 10 rebs/game.

[smart_celtics]

He's soft and inefficient. His TS% is below .500, which is terrible for a big man. He's slow in his rotations and not a strong defender. He doesn't fit in Stevens system well.

Orlando has had a big man glut since the pre-season, and Vuc complained about it. He cares more about getting his stats than winning. I don't think he makes us any more competitive against Toronto and would rather use the assets we'd trade to acquire him to get an actual physical force down low.

You do know, that he's a 14-10, on a bad day?
At a Sweet-Deal of a Contract?

There is more to the game of basketball than counting stats.

And, for what it's worth, he could only grab 7 rebounds against Jerebko/Amir/Olynyk, who are not exactly a murderers row of big men.

I agree 100%. We are looking for a rebounder who protects the rim. Vuc doesn't do that. He's also an overrated offensive player since, as you note, he's really an inefficient scorer.

[SmartWentCrazy]

If we're trading for a big man, I'd honestly try to trade AB for Noel.

-Were not going to pay 60M a year for a back court of AB and IT, and we clearly need to resign IT

-Noel's cap hold will be largely off-set by Bradley's salary, allowing us to still have max cap space

-The top draft prospects are guards who can largely play next to IT

-Noel would instantly both solidify our defense and improve our rebounding

[Smog]

After waatching last night's game, I want no part of Vucevic. He made Amir Johnson look like an all-star. He puts up empty stats on a losing team. Ibaka is also off my list. Last night he looked around 35 years old.

Wow, seriously? Were we watching the same game?

You can tell what Orlando thinks of Vucevic by what they did in the offseason. They brought in two shot-blockers and paid a guy who can't score $17 million a year with the idea of sending Vucevic to the bench. But that's because Orlando is a dumb team.

He would help us a lot -- play the same role Sullinger played on this team, only he can be a lot better at it. And he's not as terrible on D as he used to be. He's not nearly as one-dimensional as someone like Greg Monroe. Vucevic will shoot away from the basket and he can rotate once and maybe twice before becoming a complete liability. But most importantly for our purposes, he'd keep the offense humming at a high level and help a ton on D by getting rebounds.

[Banks2Pierce]

People do have a problem with completely writing off some bigs that don't rim protect as complete liabilities on D when you can still be good with positional intelligence and rebounding. Same case with Monroe.

Vooch is probably movable if we needed to in the summer, but there's still risk there and I feel like our FO has steered clear of risk and really have no desire to have to attach assets to move a guy. Unless we made a bigger deal involving our own future salary(Bradley?). We're also actually analyzing a Blakely rumor.

[Edug27]

You do know, that he's a 14-10, on a bad day?
At a Sweet-Deal of a Contract?

There is more to the game of basketball than counting stats.

And, for what it's worth, he could only grab 7 rebounds against Jerebko/Amir/Olynyk, who are not exactly a murderers row of big men.

I agree 100%. We are looking for a rebounder who protects the rim. Vuc doesn't do that. He's also an overrated offensive player since, as you note, he's really an inefficient scorer.

I think we are just looking for the best players we can afford man. We aren't getting Noel. And rim protectors in general are tough to acquire... the league isn't flooded with them.

[Edug27]

He's soft and inefficient. His TS% is below .500, which is terrible for a big man. He's slow in his rotations and not a strong defender. He doesn't fit in Stevens system well.

Orlando has had a big man glut since the pre-season, and Vuc complained about it. He cares more about getting his stats than winning. I don't think he makes us any more competitive against Toronto and would rather use the assets we'd trade to acquire him to get an actual physical force down low.

You do know, that he's a 14-10, on a bad day?
At a Sweet-Deal of a Contract?

There is more to the game of basketball than counting stats.

And, for what it's worth, he could only grab 7 rebounds against Jerebko/Amir/Olynyk, who are not exactly a murderers row of big men.

7 boards in 23 min. Tristan Thompson had 9 boards in 32 min last game we played them. Vuc can rebound and put the ball in the hole. No denying that. He's has his flaws as most players do. We had a Noel thread at one point with posters ripping him apart. Now we want to trade Avery for him. Not every trade is going to be KG.

[MrTwister]

Judging by last couple of pages, nobody have a clue about Vucevic's game.

[Parliament10]

Judging by last couple of pages, nobody have a clue about Vucevic's game.

Enlighten us.

[Curmudgeon]

Of course we have a clue about Vucevic's game. We've been watching him for years. Nice offensive player, albeit a little slow afoot. Clueless on defense, and he would take touches away from Horford.

Zizic is already better than Vucevic-- not at scoring, but at the things the Celtics need a center to do.

[Edug27]

Of course we have a clue about Vucevic's game. We've been watching him for years. Nice offensive player, albeit a little slow afoot. Clueless on defense, and he would take touches away from Horford.

Zizic is already better than Vucevic-- not at scoring, but at the things the Celtics need a center to do.

Zizic?? Slow down.

[jfs1000d]

If we're trading for a big man, I'd honestly try to trade AB for Noel.

-Were not going to pay 60M a year for a back court of AB and IT, and we clearly need to resign IT

-Noel's cap hold will be largely off-set by Bradley's salary, allowing us to still have max cap space

-The top draft prospects are guards who can largely play next to IT

-Noel would instantly both solidify our defense and improve our rebounding

You can get a better player for Bradley han Noel. Bradley is a 17 ppg scorer who is an all-nba first-team defender. That's worth a very good player in current NBA landscape.

[SmartWentCrazy]

If we're trading for a big man, I'd honestly try to trade AB for Noel.

-Were not going to pay 60M a year for a back court of AB and IT, and we clearly need to resign IT

-Noel's cap hold will be largely off-set by Bradley's salary, allowing us to still have max cap space

-The top draft prospects are guards who can largely play next to IT

-Noel would instantly both solidify our defense and improve our rebounding

You can get a better player for Bradley han Noel. Bradley is a 17 ppg scorer who is an all-nba first-team defender. That's worth a very good player in current NBA landscape.

So is an all-NBA first team defense caliber center, IMO. Getting him also slides Horford to PF, and gives us a much more balanced lineup.

[Darth Celtic]

He's soft and inefficient. His TS% is below .500, which is terrible for a big man. He's slow in his rotations and not a strong defender. He doesn't fit in Stevens system well.

Orlando has had a big man glut since the pre-season, and Vuc complained about it. He cares more about getting his stats than winning. I don't think he makes us any more competitive against Toronto and would rather use the assets we'd trade to acquire him to get an actual physical force down low.

He's a walking double double. He rebounds. And he's making I believe 11 million next year. Something like that. Hill has great size, sure. But you're essentially telling IT Bradley or Smart to take a hike. Not to mention the team will either draft Fultz Ball or Jackson with the first overall pick if they get it. 2 of the 3 being guards....

Yes, I'll gladly tell Smart to take a hike for George Hill. You wouldn't?

Uh, no. I would not take an older George Hill at 20m a year plus over a rookie scale deal for a much younger Smart. Again, Smart impacts the game at a level that is hard for stats to find, but here is one. Smart led the team last night with a +36

[SmartWentCrazy]

He's a walking double double. He rebounds. And he's making I believe 11 million next year. Something like that. Hill has great size, sure. But you're essentially telling IT Bradley or Smart to take a hike. Not to mention the team will either draft Fultz Ball or Jackson with the first overall pick if they get it. 2 of the 3 being guards....

Yes, I'll gladly tell Smart to take a hike for George Hill. You wouldn't?

Uh, no. I would not take an older George Hill at 20m a year plus over a rookie scale deal for a much younger Smart. Again, Smart impacts the game at a level that is hard for stats to find, but here is one. Smart led the team last night with a +36

How much do you see Smart making after next season? I can't imagine the difference being more than $5M.

Also, Hill makes a very similar style of impact as Smart defensively. His on/off per 100 is +12 this year. He also hits threes at a high clip. Very underrated player. Similar impact to Crowder.

I love Smart, hence the username, but George Hill is just a much better player, IMO.

[Darth Celtic]

Yes, I'll gladly tell Smart to take a hike for George Hill. You wouldn't?

Uh, no. I would not take an older George Hill at 20m a year plus over a rookie scale deal for a much younger Smart. Again, Smart impacts the game at a level that is hard for stats to find, but here is one. Smart led the team last night with a +36

How much do you see Smart making after next season? I can't imagine the difference being more than $5M.

Also, Hill makes a very similar style of impact as Smart defensively. His on/off per 100 is +12 this year. He also hits threes at a high clip. Very underrated player. Similar impact to Crowder.

I love Smart, hence the username, but George Hill is just a much better player, IMO.

How old would Hill be at the start of next year? How old would Smart be next year? I'd be pissed if we didn't make trades or signings for 2 years so we can give a 31 year old Hill 20m plus in the same offseason we'll be drafting one of the top PG/SG's coming out in a decade.

That cap space needs to be for a forward or center. Just terrible idea.

[Parliament10]

Yes, I'll gladly tell Smart to take a hike for George Hill. You wouldn't?

Uh, no. I would not take an older George Hill at 20m a year plus over a rookie scale deal for a much younger Smart. Again, Smart impacts the game at a level that is hard for stats to find, but here is one. Smart led the team last night with a +36

How much do you see Smart making after next season? I can't imagine the difference being more than $5M.

Also, Hill makes a very similar style of impact as Smart defensively. His on/off per 100 is +12 this year. He also hits threes at a high clip. Very underrated player. Similar impact to Crowder.

I love Smart, hence the username, but George Hill is just a much better player, IMO.

George Hill, "a much better player" ???

No Way In Heaven or Hell.
Plus, he's 8 years older.

[SmartWentCrazy]

Uh, no. I would not take an older George Hill at 20m a year plus over a rookie scale deal for a much younger Smart. Again, Smart impacts the game at a level that is hard for stats to find, but here is one. Smart led the team last night with a +36

How much do you see Smart making after next season? I can't imagine the difference being more than $5M.

Also, Hill makes a very similar style of impact as Smart defensively. His on/off per 100 is +12 this year. He also hits threes at a high clip. Very underrated player. Similar impact to Crowder.

I love Smart, hence the username, but George Hill is just a much better player, IMO.

George Hill, "a much better player" ???

No Way In Heaven or Hell.
Plus, he's 8 years older.

Most advanced stats have him comfortably ahead of Smart this year. The age critique is definitely valid, but Hill has been fantastic these last few years. One of the more underrated players out there.

[Celts17Pride]

FWIW A Sherrod Blakely said last night on Celtics Postgame Plus that the Magic have interest in Smart and Rozier

[Homerclease]

I think Bradley for Noel is the right deal. Not sure if philly would be interested but with their recent play and the odds of them coming in the bottom half of the lottery what if they went another direction.

Bradley, Jackson, Mickey for Noel, Holmes and phillys 2017 first round pick top 8 protected. Pick should come in the 10-14 range IMO and both Noel and Holmes would help this front court.