Official Speculation Thread 2016 Volume VII - Defense Wins Championships

[Def Swami]

I think the hustling stats are a failure of both Vogel and Hennigan. How hard a team plays nightly is a reflection of the coach, but it's also a reflection of the character of the guys in the locker room. The Magic knew what they were getting into when they signed guys like Jeff Green and DJ Augustin to fat contracts without anything to prove on a team that was never destined for the playoffs. Throw in Ibaka who has no desire to play for a Mickey Mouse organization and has one foot out the door, it's not hard to see that no one really cares about the season when there is nothing to gain for several players. I think the Magic were a lot more competitive in years past because they were full of young players still trying to gain their footing in the league and carve out their niche. Throw Hezonja out there for 30+ minutes and he'll probably suck, but it won't be for lack of effort. Adam is right. It feels like too many players on the team don't care enough about the season or the franchise.

[NEM]

Among the worst "hustling" teams.

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THIS falls on Vogel... this is inexcusable IMO. When You have a team that lacks in talent, they need to be scrappy and willing to fight for each possession. We have a team full of sissies that would rather roll over and die. Sickening.

We needed a brett brown type of coach... that guy actually coaches and will make you hustle and play hard whether it's natural to you or not. Here's an example... screaming and cursing for his player to move: https://streamable.com/34kt9

Also, I say it falls on Vogel because he should be motivating them, but in reality it should fall on the players. Grown men are making MILLIONS of dollars. MILLIONS! To play a game. They shouldn't need anyone to motivate them.

If you or I do a crappy job at work or don't meet our daily requirements, we get let go. Why isn't it the same in professional sports. Grown men making 100 times more money than us annually and they can't dive for loose balls and play the passing lanes correctly. Disgusting.

[VFX]

THIS falls on Vogel... this is inexcusable IMO. When You have a team that lacks in talent, they need to be scrappy and willing to fight for each possession. We have a team full of sissies that would rather roll over and die. Sickening.

We needed a brett brown type of coach... that guy actually coaches and will make you hustle and play hard whether it's natural to you or not. Here's an example... screaming and cursing for his player to move: https://streamable.com/34kt9

Also, I say it falls on Vogel because he should be motivating them, but in reality it should fall on the players. Grown men are making MILLIONS of dollars. MILLIONS! To play a game. They shouldn't need anyone to motivate them.

If you or I do a crappy job at work or don't meet our daily requirements, we get let go. Why isn't it the same in professional sports. Grown men making 100 times more money than us annually and they can't dive for loose balls and play the passing lanes correctly. Disgusting.

I agree that Vogel shouldn't have played the vets as much as he did. However, I think most of you are overestimating the amount of talent we have on this roster (There is very little).

There is no player on this roster that can consistently take over a game. It doesn't matter what kind of rotation or scheme you have, if you don't have the talent you don't win.

[PennytoShaq]

To win with defense takes an extra special level of pride and hard work. On our roster, I think AG, Bizmack, sometimes Elf and maybe one day Mario actually have the desire to do the work every night.

[PrimeThyme]

Yes, he's a good coach that's been proven. Look at the roster he has to work with, any coach would have trouble with this group.

&& once again lets not act like Vogel didnt have say on how this roster ended up and the free agents we signed this summer. Rob went out and got the players Vogel wanted for his system and it has failed. Rob has said many times that him and Frank are tied at the hip when it comes to making decisions with this roster. Both deserve blame

I have trouble with this at times... Vogel "signed off" on the moves, however he was the new guy in town and I think that a part of him didn't want to step on anyone's toes or ruffle feathers so early on in his tenure. I could be wrong, but it seems plausible. I think he was genuinely excited to coach Oladipo and then we traded him. Not saying he dislikes Ibaka, but I do think that he wasn't all the way on board with the moves.

I have a very hard time believing that Vogel would have had no part in the Ibaka trade. From the second he took the job Rob has said him and Frank have talked about what decisions would be made regarding the roster. I cant imagine Rob going and trading our lottery pick and top core piece right after frank took the job without him having a big say in it. He played a part in all the roster moves we made this summer. He wanted to play big and get guys that would play defense. That turned out to be a mistake considering the league is going in the opposite direction.

[Jameerthefear]

&& once again lets not act like Vogel didnt have say on how this roster ended up and the free agents we signed this summer. Rob went out and got the players Vogel wanted for his system and it has failed. Rob has said many times that him and Frank are tied at the hip when it comes to making decisions with this roster. Both deserve blame

I have trouble with this at times... Vogel "signed off" on the moves, however he was the new guy in town and I think that a part of him didn't want to step on anyone's toes or ruffle feathers so early on in his tenure. I could be wrong, but it seems plausible. I think he was genuinely excited to coach Oladipo and then we traded him. Not saying he dislikes Ibaka, but I do think that he wasn't all the way on board with the moves.

I have a very hard time believing that Vogel would have had no part in the Ibaka trade. From the second he took the job Rob has said him and Frank have talked about what decisions would be made regarding the roster. I cant imagine Rob going and trading our lottery pick and top core piece right after frank took the job without him having a big say in it. He played a part in all the roster moves we made this summer. He wanted to play big and get guys that would play defense. That turned out to be a mistake considering the league is going in the opposite direction.

Doesn't matter whether he did or not. Rob hired him.

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[SOUL]

Can we get a new thread? This has hit 100.