Official Trade Thread - Part XXXII

[nate33]

I like playing with ESPN's Trade Machine if, for no other reason, than laughs.

I just dumped Nicholson for Brandon Jennings as an unnecessary part of the Melo to Clips ongoing soap opera. Yeah, he kinda sucks. But he'd just a back-up and I'm probably the biggest hater of the Nicholson signing on this board.

I feel oddly happy with this trade -- Almost Lyrical-like. (Come back please)

Without even reviewing the trade, I'm just going to point out that it's probably not feasible.

When a team enters a trade, they must include value to get back value. Nicholson has absolutely no value as a player and has a horribly negative value as a contract. We can't get back a worse player on a better contract because a worse player doesn't exist. We can only get back a perhaps slightly better player on an even worse contract, but we are not in position to do that because of our luxtax concerns next year.

Basically, we have nothing to trade. We can't trade cap room because we have luxtax problems. And we can't trade talent because we have no expendable talent.

[Ruzious]

And the trade of Nicholson and Burke for Crawford... Crawford's contract is more than double Nicholson's for the next 2 seasons. Burke is signed just through this season. That would cost the Wiz a fortune in lux tax the next 2 seasons. Crawford having 1 less year on his deal doesn't make up for it - not even close. And Crawford might be done now.

[Illuminaire]

One caveat that always sticks in the back of mind with Anthony is that he *could* be the most amazing version of Otto Porter in the league today. He is capable of that role, except with higher usage. He's an awful #1 star but an incredible supporting actor. If someone could jedi mind-trick him into playing like he does for the olympics, he could absolutely help push a team into contender status.

As the third option who does all the little things.

But augh, he's never been willing to do that in the NBA. Not ever. It's too risky to take that gamble now.

Still, I admit, if I was a GM... I'd make the call. I'd want to talk to him directly. If he said "'I'd love to play with Wall and Beal. I know it's their team. I've been the star, now I just want to win games. I want playoffs. I want championships. I'll do whatever coach wants to make the team better, and I don't care if that means 10 shots or 20. Just let me help them win." If he said that I would trade for him in a heartbeat, because that 'Melo is a firking great player to have.

He never would though. He never would, and that is a da*n shame.

[Kanyewest]

Yep, Nene (regular season). Anthony exploded in the playoffs, but then reverted back to the player he's developed a reputation for being, one who can take over games, frequently at the expense of the team, and rarely makes positive defensive contributions. The memory of his teams reminds me of the memory of the Iverson Sixers making it to the Finals,as if it was just one man who improbably carried a bunch of non-contributors to the success.

Anthony is definitely amazing at times (like the 2nd quarter) but I'm happy to watch another teams pay for that, in so many ways. I'm open to adding veterans, but probably less of an alpha would work better.

I guess I can see where you are coming from given that Nene had a TS% of 63%.

That Nuggets team was pretty deep though; it wasn't much of a fluke that they got to the Western Conference Finals. Billups, Nene, Anthony, JR Smith, Aaron Affalo, Ty Lawson, and Chris Anderson were really good. Like the 76ers, I'm not going to fault them much for losing to championship Lakers teams.

If the Wizards didn't have to give up a meaningful rotation player (Ian, Nicholson, and a pick), I would probably do the trade and dump some bad salaries in the process. Then, I would probably let Wall make Anthony look really good and probably trade him again after the season is over to a team like Sacremento for their first rounder (I believe once he waives his no trade, he can be traded anywhere)

Although I think Anthony could probably had for less though if he doesn't work out in his next stop, which will probably be a disaster defensively.

[mhd]

Just throwing this out there:

Taj Gibson+Bulls 2018 2nd for Nicholson+2017 1st?

Yes, giving up the 2017 1st sucks, but we know EG can't draft anyways. Gibson would be a perfect fit (although he's a rental), and we avoid any lux tax concerns by dumping Nicholson.

[J-Ves]

Just throwing this out there:

Taj Gibson+Bulls 2018 2nd for Nicholson+2017 1st?

Yes, giving up the 2017 1st sucks, but we know EG can't draft anyways. Gibson would be a perfect fit (although he's a rental), and we avoid any lux tax concerns by dumping Nicholson.

Around these parts giving up a first for a 1/2 season rental is a crime punishable by DEATH no matter how dire our cap situation is. What we need to do is find a way to retain Porter and keep all other cheap valuable assets (Oubre, 2017 1st) and stay under the lux tax line for next year. Maybe Smith and a second gets moved at the trade deadline for an expiring even though he is part of our rotation currently.

Also, I doubt the Bulls would take on Nicholson's 4 year(!!) contract just to pick up a late first, but people seem to think this draft is better than most, so maybe I'm wrong on that.

Edit. I just heard from nate that the Wizards don't have to worry about paying the lux tax until next years trade deadline, so moving salary this year is unnecessary.

[stevemcqueen1]

Nicholson's contract isn't bad enough to spend a first round pick just to dump it. Nor are we good enough that spending it for a rental we could not then afford to extend is an acceptable return.

Just keep the pick and draft someone or get back a longer term asset on a rookie deal.

[pcbothwel]

Just throwing this out there:

Taj Gibson+Bulls 2018 2nd for Nicholson+2017 1st?

Yes, giving up the 2017 1st sucks, but we know EG can't draft anyways. Gibson would be a perfect fit (although he's a rental), and we avoid any lux tax concerns by dumping Nicholson.

Wall, Beal, Otto, and Oubre disagree with your assessment of EG's draft prowess. Yes, he has missed in some, but there is a difference between being bad/terrible and mediocre.



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[nuposse04]

I'd be curious if Nicholson+2nd rounders could be used towards the trade deadline for teams that need another team to make the salaries work... I can't think of any plausible scenarios off the top of my head but I wouldn't hastily throw a number 1 away to get out of that now.

[nuposse04]

Just throwing this out there:

Taj Gibson+Bulls 2018 2nd for Nicholson+2017 1st?

Yes, giving up the 2017 1st sucks, but we know EG can't draft anyways. Gibson would be a perfect fit (although he's a rental), and we avoid any lux tax concerns by dumping Nicholson.

Wall, Beal, Otto, and Oubre disagree with your assessment of EG's draft prowess. Yes, he has missed in some, but there is a difference between being bad/terrible and mediocre.



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Wall and Beal were for the most part consensus picks. Grunfeld gets no credit for them. Porter and Oubre yes, he does deserve some kudos for them.

[montestewart]

Just throwing this out there:

Taj Gibson+Bulls 2018 2nd for Nicholson+2017 1st?

Yes, giving up the 2017 1st sucks, but we know EG can't draft anyways. Gibson would be a perfect fit (although he's a rental), and we avoid any lux tax concerns by dumping Nicholson.

Wall, Beal, Otto, and Oubre disagree with your assessment of EG's draft prowess. Yes, he has missed in some, but there is a difference between being bad/terrible and mediocre.



Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

Wall and Beal were for the most part consensus picks. Grunfeld gets no credit for them. Porter and Oubre yes, he does deserve some kudos for them.

I can imagine some credit for Porter, but he wasn't some prescient reach. Porter was widely ranked the 3rd best prospect and there was a near consensus that the Wizards would take him. The wrench was Noel not being picked #1, and when he was available, many of us here felt the Wizards should have taken him. It's a good thing he didn't, but even then we speculated that he and other GMs may have had information that we didn't have regarding Noel's health.

After the pick was made, the Wizards sent signals that the pick was based on who could soonest contribute, implying concern about Noel's rehab, and Porter seeming more NBA ready. Glad he's here, but other than the injured, rehabbing, not-ready-to-play Noel, I can't think of who else he might have picked, and I'm just glad Bennett wasn't available (as some prognosticators speculated the Wizards might take him if available).

[theboomking]

Our starting five has great chemistry and is legitimately excellent. Wall, Beal, Porter, Morris and Gortat have the 6th best plus minus rating of any lineup in the league.
http://stats.nba.com/lineups/traditional/#!?sort=PLUS_MINUS&dir=1

We aren't trading for Melo. We basically have no assets we'd be likely to part with. That being said, if we could get him at a relatively low price, I would make the move. And I wouldn't play him with the starters, at all. Our bench has no scoring. Melo fixes that problem. I loved McQueen's idea about playing Melo at the 4 and Morris at the 5 with the backups. Let Melo be as much of a black hole as he wants on that second unit. We still wouldn't beat Golden State, but I actually do think we would have a solid chance against Cleveland.

Also, Jamal Crawford? Yikes. He is 36yo and is shooting less than .400 from the field and only .320 from 3. His TS% is .491. That is horrific.

[Dat2U]

As Meliorus points out, the dropoff in defense by swapping Kieff for Anthony would probably offset the modest gains in offense. After all, as a team, we have an ORtg of 109.5. Would Melo's ORtg of 111 really boost us all that much?

If New York is trying to give Melo away, then keep Markieff. You could start Melo and make Keef the third big. And a small line up with Melo at the 4 and Keef at the 5 would be dominant.

Melo is a deadly three ball shooter off the catch, so that's one way he'd improve our offense over playing Keef. The other big benefit would be playing Melo with the reserves. It would be nice having a shot creator with that group because Burke is a weak playmaker.

But you and Meliorus are right that Melo isn't worth making any trades that significantly disrupt the current rotation. Too limited and too expensive at this point in his career. I think you only trade for him if you can get him for next to nothing. Bad contracts and maybe a single first round draft pick.

There is something to be said for adding a scoring forward like him to a well built roster though. Getting Adrian Dantley and, later, Mark Aguirre put the Bad Boys Pistons over the top.

Hmmm, if Melo was willing to come off the bench I think I would be seriously interested in that. He could be a super sub backing up Markieff and allowing Markieff to slide to C. He could get about 26-28 minutes a night in that role as the #1 option off the bench. That way he would really help where we need help badly, when our starters need to rest without impacting our chemistry. If we could get O'Quinn & Jennings in the deal to solidify the bench it might be worth it...

Carmelo, O'Quinn & Jennings for
Mahinmi, Nicholson, Smith, Burke & (2) 1st round picks (2017 unprotected, 2019 top 3 protected).

We rid ourselves of ALL the mistakes Ernie made this offseason, get a sixth starter & temporary bench in return. It's salary neutral for 2018 and gives us breathing room beyond with Melo off the books in 2018 or 2019 depending of he picks up his option during the '18 off-season.

Gortat / O'Quinn / Ochefu
Morris / Anthony / House
Porter / Oubre
Beal / McClellan / Thornton
Wall / Jennings / Satoransky

[AFM]

In what planet would Melo EVER come off the bench?

I know you were just exploring hypotheticals Dat, but please remember Melos reaction this summer to being ranked 30+ or whatever he was, as the best player in the league. Dude is a delusional chucker....shame because he has a boatload of talent obviously

[dangermouse]

I like the idea of poaching Taj but not for our first this year. I always thought he was a better rebounder than Markieff, but this year they are averaging about the same, I think.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I like playing with ESPN's Trade Machine if, for no other reason, than laughs.

I just dumped Nicholson for Brandon Jennings as an unnecessary part of the Melo to Clips ongoing soap opera. Yeah, he kinda sucks. But he'd just a back-up and I'm probably the biggest hater of the Nicholson signing on this board.

I feel oddly happy with this trade -- Almost Lyrical-like. (Come back please)

Without even reviewing the trade, I'm just going to point out that it's probably not feasible.

When a team enters a trade, they must include value to get back value. Nicholson has absolutely no value as a player and has a horribly negative value as a contract. We can't get back a worse player on a better contract because a worse player doesn't exist. We can only get back a perhaps slightly better player on an even worse contract, but we are not in position to do that because of our luxtax concerns next year.

Basically, we have nothing to trade. We can't trade cap room because we have luxtax problems. And we can't trade talent because we have no expendable talent.

I I loved Nicholson's game when he was in college. He's a Canadian who I believe majored in engineering; and, I know the guy can play offense really well.

My guess is that he is overthinking and once he gets freed up he's going to be a beast

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Just throwing this out there:

Taj Gibson+Bulls 2018 2nd for Nicholson+2017 1st?

Yes, giving up the 2017 1st sucks, but we know EG can't draft anyways. Gibson would be a perfect fit (although he's a rental), and we avoid any lux tax concerns by dumping Nicholson.

No because Taj Gibson will require many of the minutes that Markieff Morris is playing quite capably well

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Nicholson's contract isn't bad enough to spend a first round pick just to dump it. Nor are we good enough that spending it for a rental we could not then afford to extend is an acceptable return.

Just keep the pick and draft someone or get back a longer term asset on a rookie deal.

Agreed.

I would trade the first for Bobby Portis plus a Chicago second round pick

[penbeast0]

Heck, if you are going to trade with Chicago, offer them Mahinmi and Nicholson for Mirotic and Rondo and see if they bite. Rondo's a massive overpay but he gives us a genuine playmaker to sub for Wall and both are on 1 year deals rather than 3. And we don't give up picks that can get us development players who don't cost an arm and a leg.

[Meliorus]

Heck, if you are going to trade with Chicago, offer them Mahinmi and Nicholson for Mirotic and Rondo and see if they bite. Rondo's a massive overpay but he gives us a genuine playmaker to sub for Wall and both are on 1 year deals rather than 3. And we don't give up picks that can get us development players who don't cost an arm and a leg.

Similar deals were suggested before. I think Chicago says no, Rondo's contract is actually an asset. Neither of the 2 players we're offering are assets right now. Also, Grunfeld is not going to trade Mahinmi this early. He signed him long-term for 4 years, he believes he's our starting center once Gortat declines.