If you could swap Ibaka back for Oladipo would you?

[tiderulz]

Ha ha.

I really would not mind him going back to PF, but I think he'll need to add preferably 20-25 pounds tho. Despite his hops, he's not a shot blocker anyways, so losing some explosion in his hops doesn't bother me. Heck, I think he needs to add on more pounds right now even as a SF. Probably 10-15 lbs. Lebron weighs 30 pounds more than him, Durant weights 20 pounds more than him, Butler weighs 10 more pounds than him... So yeah, Gordon needs to continue to work on adding weight to his frame regardless.

It's just a much bigger chore if the move is to make him our PF.

Why would he need to add weight though?

He'd be at advantage as a PF. There really is no post game left for him to defend anyway.

Ag is a perfect small ball four. He is slow for sf but fast for a pf these days.

And he doesnt have to be an elite shotblocker to become an elite defender.

Perfect small ball four? Is that the line up that we roll out as we start games? Or is he not a starter?

Yeah, you don't need to be an elite shot blocker to become an elite defender, but you can't be backed down easily either, so you need to be able to bang with resistance. He's got to find the right balance. 235 might be that weight.

At least 10-15 more pounds... IF that listed weight really is 220. The eyeball test tells me he's more than that, but does anyone else have a more accurate reading?

According to ESPN's listed weights here's Gordon vs a list of PFs...

Aaron Gordon - 220

Serge Ibaka - 235
Blake Griffin - 250
Anthony Davis - 253
Kevin Love - 250
Draymond Green - 230, but a stocky 6'7
Julius Randle - 250
Demarcus Cousins - 270
Paul Millsap - 246
Kristaps Porzingis - 240
Lamarcus Aldridge - 246
Jabari Parker - 250
Markieff Morris - 245
Nikola Jokic - 250
Ryan Anderson - 240
Zach Randolph - 260
Channing Frye - 255
Jahlil Okafor - 275
Gorgui Dieng - 240
Terrence Jones - 255

i think the weight, like the height, is give to espn by the team, who in turn puts in whatever the player wants listed

[Last Guardian]

For the "In a heart-beat" voters, your starting five would be:

Payton/Oladipo/Fournier/Gordon/Vučević


..

Which is better than what we have.

Edit: I can't understand how anyone can defend this trade. We are getting blown out every other game...are we supposed to believe we are better this season than last?? lmao. End of story, we were better with Oladipo. Ibaka hasn't done a thing for this team.

We never should have broken up the core. Well, at least not the way we did.

[drsd]

Edit: I can't understand how anyone can defend this trade. We are getting blown out every other game...are we supposed to believe we are better this season than last?? lmao. End of story, we were better with Oladipo. Ibaka hasn't done a thing for this team.

We never should have broken up the core. Well, at least not the way we did.

GM Hennigan rolled the dice. And hit snake eyes. I understand why he took the risk he did. But as he lost this gamble, he will be unemployed. Even if the Magic storm back to make the playoffs, I still see him getting his pink slip.


The question in that now is, "Will Ibaka resign given the state of this roster?" If not, well, then ......

..

[fendilim]

General question: If we traded Ibaka how would you replace him?

This is the question that wakes GM Hennigan up every night.

For me it depends on Coach Vogels views of Gordon's ultimate position, and whether he would be retained by the Magic.

If Gordon is a long-term SF, then a PF need to be gained. Sadly, Noel might be the best trade-able prospect.
If Gordon is a long-term PF, then Orlando could go "all-in" on a Butler trade (Ibaka, Vučević and two 1st's: that might not be enough).
If Gordon is to be shipped, it is for a SF but adding Ibaka to that is something I never thought of. So maybe, Ibaka and Gordon for Porter Jr. and Morris seems around what one could expect; maybe the Magic need to add in a 2018 first).


..

No way we touch Noel. Noel, Biyombo, EP and Gordon a little. Worst shooting starting 5.

[shinoff2183]

I voted in a heartbeat. In fact im still kinda pissed at this trade. I think henny has done a horrible job and the franchise will pay for it soon. Thats really all I have to say.

[Skin]

Why would he need to add weight though?

He'd be at advantage as a PF. There really is no post game left for him to defend anyway.

Ag is a perfect small ball four. He is slow for sf but fast for a pf these days.

And he doesnt have to be an elite shotblocker to become an elite defender.

Perfect small ball four? Is that the line up that we roll out as we start games? Or is he not a starter?

Yeah, you don't need to be an elite shot blocker to become an elite defender, but you can't be backed down easily either, so you need to be able to bang with resistance. He's got to find the right balance. 235 might be that weight.

At least 10-15 more pounds... IF that listed weight really is 220. The eyeball test tells me he's more than that, but does anyone else have a more accurate reading?

According to ESPN's listed weights here's Gordon vs a list of PFs...

Aaron Gordon - 220

Serge Ibaka - 235
Blake Griffin - 250
Anthony Davis - 253
Kevin Love - 250
Draymond Green - 230, but a stocky 6'7
Julius Randle - 250
Demarcus Cousins - 270
Paul Millsap - 246
Kristaps Porzingis - 240
Lamarcus Aldridge - 246
Jabari Parker - 250
Markieff Morris - 245
Nikola Jokic - 250
Ryan Anderson - 240
Zach Randolph - 260
Channing Frye - 255
Jahlil Okafor - 275
Gorgui Dieng - 240
Terrence Jones - 255

You dont need to add weight to be strong.

Also, some of the players you listed are centers.

Thats just poor scouting if we play ag against guys like demarcus. Frank's got to adjust to whom he matches Players with, if he wants to be a good coach.

Guys like TJones, KP, morris and the likes, will be easier for ag to blow by compared to their sf counterparts of tyreke, melo, porter, repectively.

This whole description you have of AG is one where he is an extremely limited player. Vogel has to adjust because AG ends up being a 1 way player who what? ... can only be successful if he's "blowing by" guys? C'mon. That's not a go to move for a PF. When does that happen? On a fastbreak? Down a clean lane? NBA bigs are too long or too athletic or both to get consistently beat by a "blow by" within a 10-15 feet radius of guarding the rim... and if the defense is playing zone, then he'd face more resistance as soon as he blew past his man.

Cause I mean... adding weight would only be the beginning. Skills wise it's a whole other story. He has no midrange game... So forget any Pn'Pop play... He has no post up moves... Even if he wanted to post up, at 220 pounds can he bang? What 220 pound PF is successfully doing their thing in the NBA? Can't say that he's a stretch 4 with his 3pt accuracy... You could say AG is a dunker with confidence, but when you analyze his game, he doesn't dunk over guys. His dunks are come from running down clean lanes, catching alleys or maneuvering around guys... he doesn't go through guys and he doesn't go over guys... cause he's not long enough or big enough.

If AG is our replacement for Ibaka, then when Vogel has to adjust as you say, then who does he go to?

Can AG reach stardom as a 2 way PF at 220 pounds? I've yet to hear a convincing argument.

[drsd]

If AG is our replacement for Ibaka, then when Vogel has to adjust as you say, then who does he go to?

If Ibaka, Vučević, expiring deals, and picks could be flipped for Butler, then Gordon could work at PF. But the Bulls must be more hopeful for Gordon than Ibaka. And this is the rub. Why trade for Ibaka when you can trade for Gordon?

Payton/Fournier/Butler/Gordon/Biyambo is an interesting starting five though.



..

[Skin]

If AG is our replacement for Ibaka, then when Vogel has to adjust as you say, then who does he go to?

If Ibaka, Vučević, expiring deals, and picks could be flipped for Butler, then Gordon could work at PF. But the Bulls must be more hopeful for Gordon than Ibaka. And this is the rub. Why trade for Ibaka when you can trade for Gordon?

Payton/Fournier/Butler/Gordon/Biyambo is an interesting starting five though.



..

For me getting Butler is a day dream. I like to think about Paul George too.

Good point about CHI preferring youth over Ibaka though. They'd only be interested in Ibaka if they kept Butler. So your scenario probably doesn't work. Otherwise, they should prefer to go in a youth movement and use Butler to gain those assets. No sense in getting Ibaka if Butler is gone.

That said, I'd give up a lot for Butler including any combination we could put together... including Gordon.

If we ended up with Butler/Ibaka/Biyombo, that would be the start of a good reset.

[JAY DASH]

Perfect small ball four? Is that the line up that we roll out as we start games? Or is he not a starter?

Yeah, you don't need to be an elite shot blocker to become an elite defender, but you can't be backed down easily either, so you need to be able to bang with resistance. He's got to find the right balance. 235 might be that weight.

At least 10-15 more pounds... IF that listed weight really is 220. The eyeball test tells me he's more than that, but does anyone else have a more accurate reading?

According to ESPN's listed weights here's Gordon vs a list of PFs...

Aaron Gordon - 220

Serge Ibaka - 235
Blake Griffin - 250
Anthony Davis - 253
Kevin Love - 250
Draymond Green - 230, but a stocky 6'7
Julius Randle - 250
Demarcus Cousins - 270
Paul Millsap - 246
Kristaps Porzingis - 240
Lamarcus Aldridge - 246
Jabari Parker - 250
Markieff Morris - 245
Nikola Jokic - 250
Ryan Anderson - 240
Zach Randolph - 260
Channing Frye - 255
Jahlil Okafor - 275
Gorgui Dieng - 240
Terrence Jones - 255

You dont need to add weight to be strong.

Also, some of the players you listed are centers.

Thats just poor scouting if we play ag against guys like demarcus. Frank's got to adjust to whom he matches Players with, if he wants to be a good coach.

Guys like TJones, KP, morris and the likes, will be easier for ag to blow by compared to their sf counterparts of tyreke, melo, porter, repectively.

This whole description you have of AG is one where he is an extremely limited player. Vogel has to adjust because AG ends up being a 1 way player who what? ... can only be successful if he's "blowing by" guys? C'mon. That's not a go to move for a PF. When does that happen? On a fastbreak? Down a clean lane? NBA bigs are too long or too athletic or both to get consistently beat by a "blow by" within a 10-15 feet radius of guarding the rim... and if the defense is playing zone, then he'd face more resistance as soon as he blew past his man.

Cause I mean... adding weight would only be the beginning. Skills wise it's a whole other story. He has no midrange game... So forget any Pn'Pop play... He has no post up moves... Even if he wanted to post up, at 220 pounds can he bang? What 220 pound PF is successfully doing their thing in the NBA? Can't say that he's a stretch 4 with his 3pt accuracy... You could say AG is a dunker with confidence, but when you analyze his game, he doesn't dunk over guys. His dunks are come from running down clean lanes, catching alleys or maneuvering around guys... he doesn't go through guys and he doesn't go over guys... cause he's not long enough or big enough.

If AG is our replacement for Ibaka, then when Vogel has to adjust as you say, then who does he go to?

Can AG reach stardom as a 2 way PF at 220 pounds? I've yet to hear a convincing argument.

In fairness...if AG doesn't shoot well enough to be considered a stretch 4, there might not be much of a chance of him becoming a great SF either. Generally you'd like your SF to shoot as well as your PF unless he's a dynamic player like LeBron or Giannis. Aaron's steadily improving so I'm fine with him playing wherever for now.

I'd definitely take Dipo back but I'm not a big fan of a PF that just stands out there and shoots jumpers to begin with. Right now Serge is on pace to have his worst shot blocking season since his rookie year. He has shot the ball well, I will give him credit in that aspect, but he doesn't have that game changing affect on defense that he had in 2011-2013/14. He's truly a completely different player now.

[Blue_and_Whte]

Seems like they've lost Kanter and could use some front court help.

[I Rasharted]

Gotta see what we get back for Ibaka first.

[Skin]

You dont need to add weight to be strong.

Also, some of the players you listed are centers.

Thats just poor scouting if we play ag against guys like demarcus. Frank's got to adjust to whom he matches Players with, if he wants to be a good coach.

Guys like TJones, KP, morris and the likes, will be easier for ag to blow by compared to their sf counterparts of tyreke, melo, porter, repectively.

This whole description you have of AG is one where he is an extremely limited player. Vogel has to adjust because AG ends up being a 1 way player who what? ... can only be successful if he's "blowing by" guys? C'mon. That's not a go to move for a PF. When does that happen? On a fastbreak? Down a clean lane? NBA bigs are too long or too athletic or both to get consistently beat by a "blow by" within a 10-15 feet radius of guarding the rim... and if the defense is playing zone, then he'd face more resistance as soon as he blew past his man.

Cause I mean... adding weight would only be the beginning. Skills wise it's a whole other story. He has no midrange game... So forget any Pn'Pop play... He has no post up moves... Even if he wanted to post up, at 220 pounds can he bang? What 220 pound PF is successfully doing their thing in the NBA? Can't say that he's a stretch 4 with his 3pt accuracy... You could say AG is a dunker with confidence, but when you analyze his game, he doesn't dunk over guys. His dunks are come from running down clean lanes, catching alleys or maneuvering around guys... he doesn't go through guys and he doesn't go over guys... cause he's not long enough or big enough.

If AG is our replacement for Ibaka, then when Vogel has to adjust as you say, then who does he go to?

Can AG reach stardom as a 2 way PF at 220 pounds? I've yet to hear a convincing argument.

In fairness...if AG doesn't shoot well enough to be considered a stretch 4, there might not be much of a chance of him becoming a great SF either. Generally you'd like your SF to shoot as well as your PF unless he's a dynamic player like LeBron or Giannis. Aaron's steadily improving so I'm fine with him playing wherever for now.

I'd definitely take Dipo back but I'm not a big fan of a PF that just stands out there and shoots jumpers to begin with. Right now Serge is on pace to have his worst shot blocking season since his rookie year. He has shot the ball well, I will give him credit in that aspect, but he doesn't have that game changing affect on defense that he had in 2011-2013/14. He's truly a completely different player now.

But if he could shoot good enough to be a stretch 4, then he should just stay at SF.

That's all I'm trying to stay patient for. Allowing him to continue to develop his skills as a SF. Keep his body and frame in shape as is. Keep him as our starting SF, where IF his offensive game comes around, then he becomes a 2 way player and potential star...

and when you want to create mismatches or counter mismatches at the 4, THEN put him in that role as a small ball 4. But don't make his full time role a small ball 4.

[Optimus_Steel]

Dont think that our record would be any different with Dipo. This is just a bad basketball team and both players arent able to turn a team around on their own. They are complimentary pieces.

[Skin]

I'm actually very surprised at the results considering the amount of backlash that seems to be on Henny for the move. The funny thing is I voted "in a heartbeat" but I usually find myself defending Henny to keep his job. lol

So my question is if the majority wouldn't want Dipo back (or at least would take a lot of consideration to do so), why do you guys want to trade Ibaka or not want to resign him?

[spearsy23]

I'm actually very surprised at the results considering the amount of backlash that seems to be on Henny for the move. The funny thing is I voted "in a heartbeat" but I usually find myself defending Henny to keep his job. lol

So my question is if the majority wouldn't want Dipo back (or at least would take a lot of consideration to do so), why do you guys want to trade Ibaka or not want to resign him?

The question one for one which is a lot harder than rather or not it was a good trade. with ily basically being the same player as serge this year it's a no brainer to take the trade back, but the question seems to be straight up Vic for serge.

[Skin]

I'm actually very surprised at the results considering the amount of backlash that seems to be on Henny for the move. The funny thing is I voted "in a heartbeat" but I usually find myself defending Henny to keep his job. lol

So my question is if the majority wouldn't want Dipo back (or at least would take a lot of consideration to do so), why do you guys want to trade Ibaka or not want to resign him?

The question one for one which is a lot harder than rather or not it was a good trade. with ily basically being the same player as serge this year it's a no brainer to take the trade back, but the question seems to be straight up Vic for serge.

Troll alert!!! Stay away guys!! Hide the women and children!

[spearsy23]

I'm actually very surprised at the results considering the amount of backlash that seems to be on Henny for the move. The funny thing is I voted "in a heartbeat" but I usually find myself defending Henny to keep his job. lol

So my question is if the majority wouldn't want Dipo back (or at least would take a lot of consideration to do so), why do you guys want to trade Ibaka or not want to resign him?

The question one for one which is a lot harder than rather or not it was a good trade. with ily basically being the same player as serge this year it's a no brainer to take the trade back, but the question seems to be straight up Vic for serge.

Troll alert!!! Stay away guys!! Hide the women and children!

I was actually just telling you why the poll doesn't seem to match up with the opinion that it wasas bad trade. Don't worry, we proceeded to trade ily and a first for Jerami grant, which was pretty much just as bad If not worse.

[Mc-o]

Dont think that our record would be any different with Dipo. This is just a bad basketball team and both players arent able to turn a team around on their own. They are complimentary pieces.

except we were a better team last year just inexperienced, there is something to be said about continuity and it would be nice if all the guys had another shot this year without all the changes since they did improve 10 games last year.