OT - Trump

[e83pw2oa9hl5f]

Do your own research. Maybe start with primary school and US History. Then work your way up to last month.

[michaelm]

There's no voter suppression. Come on. Prove it why don't you? We don't even have to show id's like in Mexico and most other free voting countries around the world. Use green font with your jokes.

With respect and from a position of some ignorance, I would have thought the onus is on you and/or Trump or whomever else is making such claims to provide the proof, particularly when claiming it is unilateral.

The emails that were discovered proved the fraud that the DNC was using as a tool to get Hillary elected. They used much of these practices against one of their own, Bernie Sanders. Theres also video of Democrats stuffing ballot boxes with fraudulent ballots Hillary against Bernie in a primary election.

I didn't realize I would have rehash and reintroduce what's out there for anyone paying attention.

Also have CNN feeding Hillary questions prior to a debate.

We can go on and on. But I'd prefer you did some leg work before coming at others.

As I said, I speak from some ignorance although I do read a lot and have a near photographic memory, and go to the USA a lot including for the last 2 weeks of October 2016 when there wasn't much to do in various hotel rooms except watch current affairs.

From the perspective of whatever level of information level I do possess, those who complain about the campaign Hillary and the Democrats ran seem to have it right. I am also very willing to believe the power brokers in the Democrats ran things to favour Hillary over Sanders, and that the Republicans ran things to favour other candidates over Trump.

What I don't believe is that more people attended Trump's inauguration in person than attended Obama's first inauguration, or that Hillary won the popular vote by voter fraud. I don't understand why these things are important to Trump in the first place and it disturbs me that he is attempting to distort reality to deny them.

I have actually posted on another forum that I believe Trump won fair and square under your system and that I don't understand the protests, the appropriate response for those who oppose him imo being to work to get someone else elected next time.

[Mylie10]

If the goal was to run America like a business, then the premise is flawed. Because most businesses only value the input of high up management, and are beholden to customers, not employees.

I was open minded about seeing what he would do. 10 days in and I'm bracing myself for what comes next. A unified America is getting farther and farther away

You could be right. And if so, he'll kick the can and a real election may come to form. A lot of people who were not engaged before, will be much more educated on the items they'll be voting for. This is like a cleansing.

He does well...ok. If not, then someone else will be President.

[Mylie10]

With respect and from a position of some ignorance, I would have thought the onus is on you and/or Trump or whomever else is making such claims to provide the proof, particularly when claiming it is unilateral.

The emails that were discovered proved the fraud that the DNC was using as a tool to get Hillary elected. They used much of these practices against one of their own, Bernie Sanders. Theres also video of Democrats stuffing ballot boxes with fraudulent ballots Hillary against Bernie in a primary election.

I didn't realize I would have rehash and reintroduce what's out there for anyone paying attention.

Also have CNN feeding Hillary questions prior to a debate.

We can go on and on. But I'd prefer you did some leg work before coming at others.

As I said, I speak from some ignorance although I do read a lot and have a near photographic memory, and go to the USA a lot including for the last 2 weeks of October 2016 when there wasn't much to do in various hotel rooms except watch current affairs.

From whatever information level I may possess, those who complain about the campaign Hillary and the Democrats ran seem to have it right. I am also very willing to believe the power brokers in the Democrats ran things to favour Hillary over Sanders, and that the Republicans ran things to favour other candidates over Trump.

What I don't believe is that more people attended Trump's inauguration in person than attended Obama's first inauguration, or that Hillary won the popular vote by voter fraud. I don't understand why these things are important to Trump in the first place and it disturbs me that he is attempting to distort reality to deny them.

I have actually posted on another forum that I believe Trump won fair and square under your system and that I don't understand the protests, the appropriate response for those who oppose him imo being to work to get someone else elected next time.

I doubt than anybody seriously has the inauguration photos high on the priority list, lol

That has zero to do with anything related to getting something done.

[Coxy]

Can you vote on what the wall will look like? I'd like to see something like this, just to take the piss out of everything and everyone even further.

[e83pw2oa9hl5f]

Again, hard to take you seriously. I guess its been false news about the President bringing it up over and over and even trying to gag govt office from putting up pictures about it? Its a big issue because he has made it a big issue. Got into it with the press.. .It generated all this Alternative Facts crap.

[FNQ]

My post on voter suppression got erased so I'll just say look at HB 589 from North Carolina. They mined data using race to find out how people of certain races (AAs) voted, then shut down those avenues under the premise of fraud, for which they had no reasonable basis.

[michaelm]

The emails that were discovered proved the fraud that the DNC was using as a tool to get Hillary elected. They used much of these practices against one of their own, Bernie Sanders. Theres also video of Democrats stuffing ballot boxes with fraudulent ballots Hillary against Bernie in a primary election.

I didn't realize I would have rehash and reintroduce what's out there for anyone paying attention.

Also have CNN feeding Hillary questions prior to a debate.

We can go on and on. But I'd prefer you did some leg work before coming at others.

As I said, I speak from some ignorance although I do read a lot and have a near photographic memory, and go to the USA a lot including for the last 2 weeks of October 2016 when there wasn't much to do in various hotel rooms except watch current affairs.

From whatever information level I may possess, those who complain about the campaign Hillary and the Democrats ran seem to have it right. I am also very willing to believe the power brokers in the Democrats ran things to favour Hillary over Sanders, and that the Republicans ran things to favour other candidates over Trump.

What I don't believe is that more people attended Trump's inauguration in person than attended Obama's first inauguration, or that Hillary won the popular vote by voter fraud. I don't understand why these things are important to Trump in the first place and it disturbs me that he is attempting to distort reality to deny them.

I have actually posted on another forum that I believe Trump won fair and square under your system and that I don't understand the protests, the appropriate response for those who oppose him imo being to work to get someone else elected next time.

I doubt than anybody seriously has the inauguration photos high on the priority list, lol

That has zero to do with anything related to getting something done.

We were discussing voter fraud and "fake news" as I understood it. Mr Godwin's law restricts me in replying to your new argument.

[michaelm]

Double

[michaelm]

Triple

[FNQ]

btw I dont want it to seem like i'm picking on the GOP. Both sides absolutely disgust me, but in different ways.

The GOP is way more concerned with money and value than humanity. They are OK with forgoing science if it benefits their short-term, single-lifespan goals. They are more than OK with taking literal cues from a 2000 year old book instead of taking the moral cues for which it was intended. They pretend their is no inequality based on race or affluence in this country.

Meanwhile, the DNC is full of elitist, arrogant bastards who feel that they and only they should make all the rules. Not even members of their own party get to decide them - making their use of the word "Democrat" a hilariously ironic farce. They know best and if you challenge them, they will do whatever needs to be done to get their way.

And both of them of course will bend over backwards for anyone with a 9+ figure net worth. Both will continue to oppress poor Americans and poor countries in the name of making a few bucks and solidifying their place as America's elite. At the end of the day, neither of these parties give two craps about any one of us for 3.5 years straight, until they need us. They will continue to denigrate life both domestically and internationally while telling the people that its those damn Dems/Repubs that are the ones who are preventing progress. No, the people preventing progress are the people in power. And until the majority of Americans realize this and unite against them, there is no unity in America, there's no making America great again, there's no "Stronger together".

All Americans, all races, need to take this country back for the people. And a President like Trump, he might make that happen. And not by being some great unifying leader either, but by showing how an "outsider businessman" is actually the exact same thing as a career politician.

[Coxy]

btw I dont want it to seem like i'm picking on the GOP. Both sides absolutely disgust me, but in different ways.

The GOP is way more concerned with money and value than humanity. They are OK with forgoing science if it benefits their short-term, single-lifespan goals. They are more than OK with taking literal cues from a 2000 year old book instead of taking the moral cues for which it was intended. They pretend their is no inequality based on race or affluence in this country.

Meanwhile, the DNC is full of elitist, arrogant bastards who feel that they and only they should make all the rules. Not even members of their own party get to decide them - making their use of the word "Democrat" a hilariously ironic farce. They know best and if you challenge them, they will do whatever needs to be done to get their way.

And both of them of course will bend over backwards for anyone with a 9+ figure net worth. Both will continue to oppress poor Americans and poor countries in the name of making a few bucks and solidifying their place as America's elite. At the end of the day, neither of these parties give two craps about any one of us for 3.5 years straight, until they need us. They will continue to denigrate life both domestically and internationally while telling the people that its those damn Dems/Repubs that are the ones who are preventing progress. No, the people preventing progress are the people in power. And until the majority of Americans realize this and unite against them, there is no unity in America, there's no making America great again, there's no "Stronger together".

All Americans, all races, need to take this country back for the people. And a President like Trump, he might make that happen. And not by being some great unifying leader either, but by showing how an "outsider businessman" is actually the exact same thing as a career politician.

Pretty grim, but well said FNQ.

[wco81]

False equivalence helped Trump get in power.

Democrats are far from perfect but they're not as horrible as the Republicans.

When so many people concluded that both parties are equally bad and both candidates are awful, it became easier for many to say "screw it, let's try the outsider who made all these promises."

Or for many people to not bother to vote or vote for one of the 3rd-party candidates, who were all unimpressive.

[e83pw2oa9hl5f]

btw I dont want it to seem like i'm picking on the GOP. Both sides absolutely disgust me, but in different ways.

The GOP is way more concerned with money and value than humanity. They are OK with forgoing science if it benefits their short-term, single-lifespan goals. They are more than OK with taking literal cues from a 2000 year old book instead of taking the moral cues for which it was intended. They pretend their is no inequality based on race or affluence in this country.

Meanwhile, the DNC is full of elitist, arrogant bastards who feel that they and only they should make all the rules. Not even members of their own party get to decide them - making their use of the word "Democrat" a hilariously ironic farce. They know best and if you challenge them, they will do whatever needs to be done to get their way.

And both of them of course will bend over backwards for anyone with a 9+ figure net worth. Both will continue to oppress poor Americans and poor countries in the name of making a few bucks and solidifying their place as America's elite. At the end of the day, neither of these parties give two craps about any one of us for 3.5 years straight, until they need us. They will continue to denigrate life both domestically and internationally while telling the people that its those damn Dems/Repubs that are the ones who are preventing progress. No, the people preventing progress are the people in power. And until the majority of Americans realize this and unite against them, there is no unity in America, there's no making America great again, there's no "Stronger together".

All Americans, all races, need to take this country back for the people. And a President like Trump, he might make that happen. And not by being some great unifying leader either, but by showing how an "outsider businessman" is actually the exact same thing as a career politician.

Spot on. People need to move on past party politics and look at the health of the "Democracy" itself and demand and expect more. But I do agree with the last poster, in his false equivalence statement. Last two republican Presidents got in by Electoral College and voter suppression issues. That is total gaming of the system for flat out. That is just beyond anything people should accept.

[shazam_guy]

I really didn't want to read this because I don't really want to know everybody else's politics, for fear of disappointment or outright loathing resulting, but I can't stay silent.

I am old enough that I've hated Trump since he first slithered into the public eye in the 1980s, but never thought I'd have to face the prospect of him as the $@%Ting president. He has proved even worse than I feared on the first week of his term -- I seriously dread to think what he might manage to do in four years or even two. This man and his staunchest supporters are as close to actual fascists as we've had in power in a while -- to the right of even Reagan and Nixon's and Bush Jr's worst. I don't think we're going to go exactly the same way as Germany in the 30s, because everything is so very different now, but large amounts of human stupidity and gullibility and magical thinking still remain. These people scare me.

After posting this, I'm not going to join in any more arguing. I think the problem is that most of Trump's most fervent supporters refuse to believe anything or any source that criticizes him. They basically speak a different language. Half a major political party seem to be conspiracy theorists, screaming that we should ignore the Russians actively interfering in our elections after spending eight years screeching that Barack Obama was a fascist Muslim traitor.

There are decent conservatives still supporting Trump too, but I want to believe that's mostly as a blowback to liberal outrage, and I think a few of them are already feeling a bit nervous about what they've helped bring into being.

That's all I'm going to say. I wish you all well, those who agree with me and those who don't, because I'm going to assume the best until proven otherwise. And I need this as a sports hangout. I can have lots of bitter arguments about non-basketball stuff elsewhere.

[yesh]

False equivalence helped Trump get in power.

Democrats are far from perfect but they're not as horrible as the Republicans.

When so many people concluded that both parties are equally bad and both candidates are awful, it became easier for many to say "screw it, let's try the outsider who made all these promises."

Or for many people to not bother to vote or vote for one of the 3rd-party candidates, who were all unimpressive.

100% accurate. The problem is that the republicans have lurched so far to the right, it's become acceptable for democrats to act like republican light.

One one side there was a racist, sexual predator, who is the embodiment of elitism and tax avoidance, working with russia to get elected, on the other there was a stale candidate who'd outstayed her welcome on the public scene; mainly because of untrue republican smears and because she was a corporate democrat, who used her private email for her work. just like colin powell had done!

That's not a "both sides" argument unless we've all had a sip of the koolaid and now accept alternative facts as a good way forward.

[yesh]

I really didn't want to read this because I don't really want to know everybody else's politics, for fear of disappointment or outright loathing resulting, but I can't stay silent.

I am old enough that I've hated Trump since he first slithered into the public eye in the 1980s, but never thought I'd have to face the prospect of him as the $@%Ting president. He has proved even worse than I feared on the first week of his term -- I seriously dread to think what he might manage to do in four years or even two. This man and his staunchest supporters are as close to actual fascists as we've had in power in a while -- to the right of even Reagan and Nixon's and Bush Jr's worst. I don't think we're going to go exactly the same way as Germany in the 30s, because everything is so very different now, but large amounts of human stupidity and gullibility and magical thinking still remain. These people scare me.

After posting this, I'm not going to join in any more arguing. I think the problem is that most of Trump's most fervent supporters refuse to believe anything or any source that criticizes him. They basically speak a different language. Half a major political party seem to be conspiracy theorists, screaming that we should ignore the Russians actively interfering in our elections after spending eight years screeching that Barack Obama was a fascist Muslim traitor.

There are decent conservatives still supporting Trump too, but I want to believe that's mostly as a blowback to liberal outrage, and I think a few of them are already feeling a bit nervous about what they've helped bring into being.

That's all I'm going to say. I wish you all well, those who agree with me and those who don't, because I'm going to assume the best until proven otherwise. And I need this as a sports hangout. I can have lots of bitter arguments about non-basketball stuff elsewhere.

Can't agree enough. Just to add to your point about Reagan; he's a republican demi-god who would never have got past the tea party insanity test for office in todays world.

[Money_]

Bottom line is. No one is getting represented by either party. True moderate conservatives are not getting represented, and the Democrats haven't resembled Democrats for over 20 years. I think both right and left understand that we need to get the money out of politics. Only then can we have a government that truly serves and represents the will of the people. We should start there.

[Mylie10]

Bottom line is. No one is getting represented by either party. True moderate conservatives are not getting represented, and the Democrats haven't resembled Democrats for over 20 years. I think both right and left understand that we need to get the money out of politics. Only then can we have a government that truly serves and represents the will of the people. We should start there.

Nice post money