The (Quadruple) Trade Thread, 2017 (Part 4.0)

[chrisab123]

I wonder with the new CBA details if Ainge has checked on FA's agents to see if they are still considering moving and if not he will make his move this deadline

I'm sure he has some kind of an idea but there's a long way to go. Things change.

[jirrit]

Cap space for a max guy is far more hope than realism IMO. Hayward is our biggest hope but I still only give that a 10-20% chance. We'd have to get to the ECF finals and Utah needs to be sent home 4-0 something. I have a feeling GH is happy there and feels like he's building something there.

[reload141]

Cap space for a max guy is far more hope than realism IMO. Hayward is our biggest hope but I still only give that a 10-20% chance. We'd have to get to the ECF finals and Utah needs to be sent home 4-0 something. I have a feeling GH is happy there and feels like he's building something there.

His comments are just about winning and doesn't mention Utah at all.... quite interesting to see how it will play out

[Smog]

It's scary how blissfully unaware you are of players not on the Celtics and what the current market pays for very good players. Evan freaking Turner just got 17M a year, and George Hill is a much better basketball player than him across the board.

No I'm aware. Just because you give Evan Turner 17 million DOES NOT MEAN it's okay to pay George Hill 20+ million. Let someone else get fired for that mistake.

Then what would you prefer to do? Add no one? Sacrifice the ability to add anyone good by trading for Vucevic now?

This original topic came up when I listed 5-10 players that I felt were worth holding onto cap space for over trading for Vucevic. You can strike Hill, or anyone else really, but max cap space as an asset will help us out more long term than 36 games of Vucevic this year. Worse case scenario, you can trade for him in the offseason after you strike out on anyone worth it.

Even forgetting that George Hill is 31 and not remotely worth $20 million, why in God's name would he sign here? To not play? By the time free agency comes along we may have IT, Smart, Rozier, and one of Fultz, Ball, or Dennis Smith on the roster.

Hill inevitably is going to sign with a team that has both money and minutes for a lead guard. We're pretty much the last team someone like him would (or should) consider.

[Captain_Caveman]

I wonder with the new CBA details if Ainge has checked on FA's agents to see if they are still considering moving and if not he will make his move this deadline

Without question he has put out feelers there.

[reload141]

I wonder with the new CBA details if Ainge has checked on FA's agents to see if they are still considering moving and if not he will make his move this deadline

Without question he has put out feelers there.

If he doesn't sacrifice max cap space this coming trade deadline then you'd feel pretty confident that he has someone lined up.
If he does trade at the deadline and uses up the space then yeah, he didn't get the answers he wanted.

[Fencer reregistered]

He's soft and inefficient. His TS% is below .500, which is terrible for a big man. He's slow in his rotations and not a strong defender. He doesn't fit in Stevens system well.

Orlando has had a big man glut since the pre-season, and Vuc complained about it. He cares more about getting his stats than winning. I don't think he makes us any more competitive against Toronto and would rather use the assets we'd trade to acquire him to get an actual physical force down low.

You do know, that he's a 14-10, on a bad day?
At a Sweet-Deal of a Contract?

There is more to the game of basketball than counting stats.

And, for what it's worth, he could only grab 7 rebounds against Jerebko/Amir/Olynyk, who are not exactly a murderers row of big men.

Based on a one-game sample, he wouldn't be a rebounding upgrade for us.

That said -- what does other evidence show?

[jirrit]

Cap space for a max guy is far more hope than realism IMO. Hayward is our biggest hope but I still only give that a 10-20% chance. We'd have to get to the ECF finals and Utah needs to be sent home 4-0 something. I have a feeling GH is happy there and feels like he's building something there.

His comments are just about winning and doesn't mention Utah at all.... quite interesting to see how it will play out

Anyone read his IG-link he has in his bio? I just don't see him being the 'bad guy' leaving for a better opportunity.

[Captain_Caveman]

I wonder with the new CBA details if Ainge has checked on FA's agents to see if they are still considering moving and if not he will make his move this deadline

Without question he has put out feelers there.

If he doesn't sacrifice max cap space this coming trade deadline then you'd feel pretty confident that he has someone lined up.
If he does trade at the deadline and uses up the space then yeah, he didn't get the answers he wanted.

Agree with the 2nd part, but not the first. He may not take the option away regardless of having someone lined up. Cap room is also very helpful for offseason trades.

[sportscrazy]

Kyle O'Quinn and M.D. Ndour for Demetrius Jackson, James Young and 2017 Minnesota Timberwolves Second Round Draft Pick?

[SmartWentCrazy]

No I'm aware. Just because you give Evan Turner 17 million DOES NOT MEAN it's okay to pay George Hill 20+ million. Let someone else get fired for that mistake.

Then what would you prefer to do? Add no one? Sacrifice the ability to add anyone good by trading for Vucevic now?

This original topic came up when I listed 5-10 players that I felt were worth holding onto cap space for over trading for Vucevic. You can strike Hill, or anyone else really, but max cap space as an asset will help us out more long term than 36 games of Vucevic this year. Worse case scenario, you can trade for him in the offseason after you strike out on anyone worth it.

Even forgetting that George Hill is 31 and not remotely worth $20 million, why in God's name would he sign here? To not play? By the time free agency comes along we may have IT, Smart, Rozier, and one of Fultz, Ball, or Dennis Smith on the roster.

Hill inevitably is going to sign with a team that has both money and minutes for a lead guard. We're pretty much the last team someone like him would (or should) consider.

Given that I directly stated if we brought him in, it'd be to replace Smart and his minutes, I find it a little disingenuous that you're counter is partly that he wouldn't play because of Smart. But I guess I shouldn't expect more from the guy who struggles with such complex concepts such as restricted free agency.

[SmartWentCrazy]

You do know, that he's a 14-10, on a bad day?
At a Sweet-Deal of a Contract?

There is more to the game of basketball than counting stats.

And, for what it's worth, he could only grab 7 rebounds against Jerebko/Amir/Olynyk, who are not exactly a murderers row of big men.

Based on a one-game sample, he wouldn't be a rebounding upgrade for us.

That said -- what does other evidence show?

That his own team, which was desperate to make the playoffs signed/overpaid for a guy who's only strength was rebounding to replace him in the starting lineup. Not exactly a strong statement of endorsement.

[Smog]

Then what would you prefer to do? Add no one? Sacrifice the ability to add anyone good by trading for Vucevic now?

This original topic came up when I listed 5-10 players that I felt were worth holding onto cap space for over trading for Vucevic. You can strike Hill, or anyone else really, but max cap space as an asset will help us out more long term than 36 games of Vucevic this year. Worse case scenario, you can trade for him in the offseason after you strike out on anyone worth it.

Even forgetting that George Hill is 31 and not remotely worth $20 million, why in God's name would he sign here? To not play? By the time free agency comes along we may have IT, Smart, Rozier, and one of Fultz, Ball, or Dennis Smith on the roster.

Hill inevitably is going to sign with a team that has both money and minutes for a lead guard. We're pretty much the last team someone like him would (or should) consider.

Given that I directly stated if we brought him in, it'd be to replace Smart and his minutes, I find it a little disingenuous that you're counter is partly that he wouldn't play because of Smart. But I guess I shouldn't expect more from the guy who struggles with such complex concepts such as restricted free agency.

Ugh. I hate to say this, but you're the one who doesn't understand free agency - restricted or unrestricted. You don't seem to get how or why players sign in either case.

George Hill is not going to survey the NBA landscape in his last shot at a big contract and choose a team with an all-star (and perhaps all-NBA) point guard in front of him. He's going to go somewhere where he will get both big minutes and big money, to a team that needs a veteran presence at point guard.

That could be Philly, Brooklyn, Minnesota, Milwaukee, Sacramento, Utah, or even his old team Indiana, if Teague leaves. It could be Chicago or Orlando or New Orleans. A half-dozen other teams are possibilities depending on how their summers play out - Denver might give up on Mudiay, for instance.

But here? Even if the Cs cut bait with Smart, that won't be until the year after. So Hill would have to pass over all of those point-guard needy teams - including a place where he's thrived, like Utah - to spend his last effective years in the league fighting for bench minutes. Even if we moved Smart, there will likely still be 2-3 young point guards in the bench, possibly including someone like Markelle Fultz.

Hill would have to be mentally ill to sign here. It would be like Greg Monroe picking Philly, only worse.

Conversely you seem not to get the free part of restricted free agency. If Nerlens Noel thinks there's a chance in hell Philly will match, he's not signing an offer sheet anywhere for any amount of money. He'll play on his tender and leave the following year.

On the other hand if he signs an offer sheet, you can be sure he and his agent have already ascertained that Philly isn't matching. This isn't Allen Crabbe, who was happy with the money no matter who paid it and didn't mind leaving it up to chance (in fact he probably preferred staying in Portland). Noel, like Hill, wants starter minutes. Philly can't offer that, just like Boston can't offer that to Hill. So whether it's now or next year, he's signing elsewhere.

[djFan71]

I don't wanna be toxic so I'll just stop posting in this thread, but it's laughable that people are arguing that Amir is not a def. center.

What is he? Offensive center? Big man that can pass and space the floor? Why is he in the NBA if not for his ability to switch on smaller guys and protect the paint from the PF spot. It doesn't mean that he is Russell but that's his skill set.

Don't stop. You've been the voice of reason in the Quadruple version of this thread.

I'm personally not on the Vuc train. He's just not a needle-mover. If we had to, then Zelller not Amir for salary and I'm still not excited. Just means we missed out on a significant trade and settled on this. And we've buried Zizic on the bench before he even comes over.

[Bohemian]

We need another scorer, particularly against the best teams and in playoffs, for sure. You could see yesterday that Thomas can´t do it all always. That´s why I guess Ainge looked for Anthony not so long ago (not this year, though), Butler or some other scorer in the wing. A guy like Vucevic would help too in the paint, rebounding always kills us

[Edug27]

Cap space for a max guy is far more hope than realism IMO. Hayward is our biggest hope but I still only give that a 10-20% chance. We'd have to get to the ECF finals and Utah needs to be sent home 4-0 something. I have a feeling GH is happy there and feels like he's building something there.

His comments are just about winning and doesn't mention Utah at all.... quite interesting to see how it will play out

Utah is winning. May end up with a better record than Boston as well. And wouldn't be surprised if they end up beating the Clips in a first round series.. if they match up.

[Smog]

We need another scorer, particularly against the best teams and in playoffs, for sure. You could see yesterday that Thomas can´t do it all always. That´s why I guess Ainge looked for Anthony not so long ago (not this year, though), Butler or some other scorer in the wing. A guy like Vucevic would help too in the paint, rebounding always kills us

That was my thought watching the game last night, too. They need a second one-on-one scorer. Who's out there? The pipe dream would be Butler or George, the ugly expensive option would be Melo, and then there's a series of lesser players who might not be fits: Will Barton, Jahlil Okafor, Brook Lopez, Brandon Knight, Reggie Jackson, Goran Dragic, Tyreke Evans... who else?

[Edug27]

Spoiler:

From Stein



Like I wrote earlier, it really seems like Orlando is the one making the calls and shopping him rather than Boston wanting him. This is the same as Wolves leaking about Jackson - Rubio swap hoping to create a market for him.

Both players can play, in vacuum, but unfortunately for them, their skill set doesn't help you win games in 2017. If your PG can't shot and/or your center can't defend pick and rolls / protect the paint, you're in trouble.

For all of you thinking that Vuc would be a good addition, show me a team with a starting center like him that's winning games. *crickets*

He's in a Kanter, B.Lopez, Monroe, Jefferson, Okafor mold. Putting up stats on a losing team, or gets relegated to a bench role.

What is a starting C like him mean? He is nothing like Lopez or Okafor to start with. Monroe is a fair comparison Vucevic has a little more range to his game and is a little bit better defensively. Kanter is terrible defensively.

Boston is so bad rebounding the ball that adding a guy like Vucevic would vastly improve their defense by stopping the endless flow of offensive rebounds. That said every team has an identity and this team's particular trademark isn't defense it is offense. This guy could help offensively a ton.

The one thing I really like about Vucevic is that he is 26 and making 11.75 mil dollars and he is under contract for 2 more years. If you end up bringing him off the bench or only playing him part time mins he is only making what is back up big man money in the NBA now.

I respect you as a poster but I disagree with almost everything you just wrote, so lets just leave it there.
-------------------------------------

I don't wanna be toxic so I'll just stop posting in this thread, but it's laughable that people are arguing that Amir is not a def. center.

What is he? Offensive center? Big man that can pass and space the floor? Why is he in the NBA if not for his ability to switch on smaller guys and protect the paint from the PF spot. It doesn't mean that he is Russell but that's his skill set.

Again. You're assuming just because his defensive ability is better than his offensive ability, means he's a defensive big man. If that's your definition, then fine. But to me, a defensive big man is a big man who is.. um.. a pretty good defensive player. Amir is not. The only thing working for Amir is that he's a fairly smart veteran player. He knows his limits and he sticks to what he can do and doesn't try to do too much or get overwhelmed. The dude can't rebound or defend the paint. Which is why opposing big men own us on the boards and can get whatever shot over they want down there. We had to sub Amir out for KO last night because he was getting abused down there at one stretch. No doubt in my mind that Vuc can replace Amirs 19-20 minutes on defensive dominance... or whatever you call it.

[Banks2Pierce]

But to me, a defensive big man is a big man who is.. um.. a pretty good defensive player. Amir is not.

Amir is a good defensive player. Stats(adjusted and non-adjusted), eye test, Brad, whatever. It's kind of a blatant truth. He's long, smart, quick enough, and has underrated strength. Can't rebound, but is good in spite of it. Pretty much the case with all of our bigs.

[Bohemian]

We need another scorer, particularly against the best teams and in playoffs, for sure. You could see yesterday that Thomas can´t do it all always. That´s why I guess Ainge looked for Anthony not so long ago (not this year, though), Butler or some other scorer in the wing. A guy like Vucevic would help too in the paint, rebounding always kills us

That was my thought watching the game last night, too. They need a second one-on-one scorer. Who's out there? The pipe dream would be Butler or George, the ugly expensive option would be Melo, and then there's a series of lesser players who might not be fits: Will Barton, Jahlil Okafor, Brook Lopez, Brandon Knight, Reggie Jackson, Goran Dragic, Tyreke Evans... who else?

Ainge will surprise us for sure. If we keep the BKN pick (I would say it´s 90% sure) we would probably choose another guard, so maybe a trade with one of our guards, expirings and other picks is what Ainge is putting on the table right now