2017 Pre-Trade Deadline Thread

[yosemiteben]

The trade deadline is approaching in a few weeks, and there are quite a few different approaches we could take.

(1) Win now - F cap space and picks, trade pick + exprings for an upgrade (the Melo approach)

(2) Core shake up - trade someone that at the start of the season was considered a part of our core to find a better fit (the see ya Frank / MKG / Lamb / Marv / Batum approach)

(3) Go young, but not too young - trade expiring(s) + pick to acquire a younger underutilized player (the save us Warren / Hood / Nurkic / Noel approach)

(4) Ride it out - don't trade any picks or core players, make a smaller move but essentially see what this group can accomplish without giving up assets this season. Maximize cap space, play the draft and see what we can do in FA.

Curious to hear thoughts on how we should approach the deadline from a macro perspective.

[Braggins]

I'd be fine with (2), (3), or (4).

[HornetJail]

I just want a backup PG and backup C worth a damn. That way we don't dick slapped in the face anytime Cody or Kemba goes to the bench. That bench better look significantly different. I am always about option (3) whether we're in trouble or not.

If a big time upgrade comes along (not Melo) I'm happy to go (1) as well.

(2) is not something I'm ready to do. The starting five is good but I would not consider Frank or Lamb as part of the core. I'm content playing out the season with this starting five.

If we manage to get good stopgaps at PG and C like Lee using method (4) that's great too.

[316Hornets]

Ride it out. Team is in good position to add to the core after this season. No point in sacrificing the future for this year when you have to go against the goliaths of Cleveland and Golden State.

[Vanderbilt_Grad]

Here are some of the franchise pros & cons as I see them.

Pros
+ Kemba is amazing.
+ Starting lineup pretty good.
+ Most starters are either young and getting better or in their prime.
+ No bad contracts overall. Nic as a possible exception here.
+ Franchise seems to have a good reputation overall among players.
+ Free agency next summer may offer good way to strengthen bench.
+ Next year’s draft looks solid.
+ Cho seems really good a minor mid-season trades that make a difference.

Cons
- Lack of 2nd or 3rd go-to scorer unlikely to be addressed in FA or Draft.
- Starters don’t always seem to fit together well (MKG shooting, Cody rebounding, etc.)
- Huge bench weakness, especially at backup PG & C.
- Team could miss the playoffs or not make it out of the 1st round as currently constructed.
- Cap situation isn’t great. May struggle to sign free agents because of this.
- Franchise drafting history is not solid.
- Cho’s mid-season trades rarely seem to have a long term impact.


1) Win Now: We’ve seen this before with Larry Brown. It did not turn out well then. That said, risky trades for someone like Gallo might be the only way that the team gets to the next level. Overall I’m tempted to go this way, but it seems to play more to the weaknesses listed above.

2) Core Shake Up: I honestly think that this is the best approach currently, but feel like it will be easier in the post-season than it is now. I think that the team makes better long term trades around the draft & that this gives Cliff time to work on how he wants the new guys to fit in.

3) Go Young: I’m Ok with this. Personally, I’ve been down on this team as constructed since the start of the year. For a while I thought they might be proving me wrong, but I’m OK with making a risky move that could add some losses this year in the hope of making things better long term. The issue is that most of the young guys you list are on losing younger teams. They aren’t going to want just exprirings for the most part.

4) Ride It Out: The biggest issues are what I alluded to above. The team is going to be right under the cap if I read things right. That means they aren’t going to get the mid-level exception and aren’t going to have enough cap space to get either a good starter or depth as is. On top of that the team’s drafting history isn’t what I would call solid. With no changes at all I don’t feel great about just sticking to things like they are now.


In order to address the first 3 cons in my list I think that the team is going to have to go one of the first 3 routes.

I think that they are going to need at least a minor trade of some sort that will put them well over or under the cap next summer if they want to do #4.

So TL:DR my choices would be 2, 3, 1, 4 in that order.

[chellis]

Personally I like 2 and 3 and options. We are built to be a .500 or slightly above team with a first round exit (unless we hit a favorable matchup). I think we need to shake things up but try and get younger. I don't want a full on rebuild, but I do think the roster as currently constructed only gets us into the playoffs. I want to compete for championships. I'd love to keep Kemba and Cody. Everyone else, if the deal is right I think should be considered. But in reality, no player on our roster should be considered untouchable as there are no superstar, transcendent players here.

[Vanderbilt_Grad]

I should add that roughly 17 teams have the potential to be significantly under the cap next summer & that Charlotte isn't one of them.

[JDR720]

I'd just stay put or go young.

Maybe one of the dleague guys can patch a hole or two

[Eoghan]

Options 1) and 4) are historically catastrophic to impossible, especially with current FO. Just lousy track records of doing either. Option 1) is more plausible if you change 'Win Now' to 'Blow It Up' for tanking. Zero faith in anything positive coming about with option 4).

Option 3) is most plausible and preferred IMO. Cho can't draft but he is decent at finding diamonds from the rough of other teams. This core needs youth injections to stay competitive long term with teams that tanked and drafted better than us. Option 2) is next preferred and mildly plausible as this team has attempted bold moves when MJ demands it. Look for "Clifford guys" that coach would be familiar with from former jobs or Van Gundy ties.

[Bassman]

Options 1) and 4) are historically catastrophic to impossible, especially with current FO. Just lousy track records of doing either. Option 1) is more plausible if you change 'Win Now' to 'Blow It Up' for tanking. Zero faith in anything positive coming about with option 4).

Option 3) is most plausible and preferred IMO. Cho can't draft but he is decent at finding diamonds from the rough of other teams. This core needs youth injections to stay competitive long term with teams that tanked and drafted better than us. Option 2) is next preferred and mildly plausible as this team has attempted bold moves when MJ demands it. Look for "Clifford guys" that coach would be familiar with from former jobs or Van Gundy ties.

I think it is a blending of 2 and 3, using MKG to get young promising talent that has potential (Warren, Hood idea) plus an extra player to shore up a bench position within the same deal.

[yosemiteben]

I am sticking with the philosophy on this season that I had last summer - let's see what we can do with the pieces we have right now before doing anything drastic. If we bottom out with this core and miss the playoffs, then we bottom out, but I'm not willing to sacrifice meaningful assets this season. We have the foundation we need and I believe the evidence is there to say our core fits together well. I don't want to just switch out parts, I want to add to what we have now, so that's why I'm shying away from the Win Now approach (1) and the Core Shake Up approach (2).

[yosemiteben]

I think I'm talking myself into Nurkic.

Pros:
Good size and very strong - 7 footer, 7'2" wingspan, 280 pounds
Very mobile for his size
Excellent in the PNR (1.21 ppp as PNR roll man, better than Cody but not run nearly as frequently)
Pretty good post moves, willing to go to work on the block
Willing passer (gets sticky when he starts working in the paint though)
Solid on the boards (current ORB% would be 1st on our team, DRB% would be 2nd)
Still young (22, turns 23 in August)

Cons:
No shooting range (21 total shot attempts outside of 9 feet this season on poor %'s) and poor FT shooter (career 59%)
Still developing post game (53.6% FG within 10 feet but tracking stats say only 0.75 ppp on post-ups, which is worse than Frank)
Undisciplined defensively (chases blocks, team underperforms defensively with him on the floor)
Not a great rim protector (allows 55% at the rim)
Injury history (played 62 games rookie season and only 32 last season)

Good piece on Nuggets blog about him - http://www.denverstiffs.com/2016/12/20/14024902/how-do-denver-nuggets-answer-the-jusuf-nurkic-questions

ETA: oh snap, apparently he also has a Hibbert-esque failed assist / shot make

[catch20two]

We definitely need to trade or look for a big that can do at least some of what Cody does from a agility standpoint. It's a PnR league these days so having sloth footed dinosaurs that have a hard time covering and recovering space don't help.

Other than that I hope we can find another backup PG. The fact that Brian Roberts is on the roster and just 2 years ago was supposed to be our long term answer at backup PG but isn't no better than Sessions show just how bad that signing was 2 years ago lol.

[yosemiteben]

Catch, I know Noel is your boy and I've been thinking a lot about him. He fits somewhere between option (1) and (3) - he's young so you can view trading a pick for him like cashing in the pick without giving up too much upside, but since he's a RFA you also have to factor in the lost cap space because you aren't keeping him and still having space for anyone else. The question is whether he is the best use you can make of the cap space.

My biggest concern with him is lack of strength, which plays into my second concern - injury potential. I'm worried about spending a pick and then having to use all our cap space to hang on to a guy that gets muscled around inside and can't stay healthy.

[catch20two]

Catch, I know Noel is your boy and I've been thinking a lot about him. He fits somewhere between option (1) and (3) - he's young so you can view trading a pick for him like cashing in the pick without giving up too much upside, but since he's a RFA you also have to factor in the lost cap space because you aren't keeping him and still having space for anyone else. The question is whether he is the best use you can make of the cap space.

My biggest concern with him is lack of strength, which plays into my second concern - injury potential. I'm worried about spending a pick and then having to use all our cap space to hang on to a guy that gets muscled around inside and can't stay healthy.

I want Noel but I actually think it's unlikely at this point with how good he's been been playing for them since getting re-inserted in the regular rotation.

It was possible when he was getting DNP-CDs and being disgruntled on the bench. Now? Nah. We'd have to trade them MKG to get Noel now and I'm not with that at the moment.

[catch20two]

Henson and maybe WCS are our best possibilities now.

[yosemiteben]

Not sure about Noel costing that much more now. They have his RFA coming up and they still have Okafor. I don't think he's shown anything recently that they hadn't seen before - it's not like he's added a significant new skillset that they didn't know about.

I do agree that maybe this tips the scales in the "trade Okafor" vs. "trade Noel" debate, but at the end of the day they have contract certainty with Okafor and Noel is about to cost them a max contract. They obviously have the space, but they also (presumably) don't have the same level of 3rd party interest in Okafor, so it comes down to whether they value:

(1) Noel - cap space + whatever assets Okafor nets them

more than

(2) Okafor + cap space + whatever assets Noel nets them.

[yosemiteben]

Henson and maybe WCS are our best possibilities now.

Maybe, at least in the sense of players that don't get major PT, are on teams with lots of options at their position and are looking unlikely to have strong playoff positions, and would be pretty cheap to require. I don't think Henson is worth the cap space commitment though. No idea where SAC is at with WCS, but since he's only in his second year seems unlikely that they'll move him.

[Braggins]

I kind of think Nurkic might be a better fit than Noel or Henson. Noel's/Henson's rim protection is nice, but their skillsets mostly overlap Cody's. I think Cody already gives us viable rim protection and Nurkic actually gives us many things that Cody lacks. I like the Adams/Kanter comparison for Zeller/Nurkic (someone made this comparison somewhere on here). Nurkic doesn't seem like hes going to be a complete dumpster fire on defense like Kanter, though, even though he might not develop quite the scoring prowess.

I think I'm on the Nurkic bandwagon as well. We have some other issues that need addressing, but I'm at the point where I feel like we just have to do something about backup center and Nurkic seems like the best available option that would add to our long term ceiling instead of limiting it.

Edit: I'm kind of curious to see what Clifford/Ewing could do with a young big with great size and some low post potential.

[catch20two]

I don't mind having a big that duplicates similar attributes as Cody so that we can continue to play the same success with our bench as with our starters. I wish we had 2 Kembas.