Fake Trade Thread 16/17 pt.1

[Braggins]

Yeah, trading a 1st round pick for a potential one year rental would be terrible, especially considering none of the guys mentioned actually move the needle all that much. If we can't flip 2nds for an upgrade (or maybe a 1st if the returning player is also a young, still has potential, and can't leave after a season), then we should just accept that we might not make the playoffs and look to retool for the 2017/2018 season.

[yosemiteben]

Yeah, trading a 1st round pick for a potential one year rental would be terrible, especially considering none of the guys mentioned actually move the needle all that much.

I'm actually ok with that risk like I said before assuming our FO can get comfortable that he'll stick around, Frank is the issue for me. If Ibaka walks we have a gaping hole at PF and no 1st in the next draft. Can't have that.

[Braggins]

Yeah, trading a 1st round pick for a potential one year rental would be terrible, especially considering none of the guys mentioned actually move the needle all that much.

I'm actually ok with that risk like I said before assuming our FO can get comfortable that he'll stick around, Frank is the issue for me. If Ibaka walks we have a gaping hole at PF and no 1st in the next draft. Can't have that.

I'm very hesitant to give up our 2017 pick. Its clear we need an injection of more talent and as soon as possible, considering the short window we have with our core players being locked up on below market deals. If we were looking like we had a good chance of home court advantage in the playoffs then I'd be open to more scenarios involving our 2017 1st, but I currently place a lot of value in that pick. Ibaka might be just good enough for me to be willing to give up our 2018 pick if we got a confirmation hed be open to resigning. I definitely wouldn't do any of our young players and a future 1st for him. My ideal scenario would be Marv + a 2nd or two, but I really doubt that would get it done. They don't really have any need for Marv if they are tanking , so I assume theyd just want a better pick.

[yosemiteben]

My approach lately has been what gives us a piece that will provide a significant upgrade at a position of need and last us for the next 4 seasons. If we get both of those, I'm ok giving up a pick. I am concerned that we are not going to have the cap space to make a significant upgrade without moving core pieces, which is a bit of a two steps forward, one step back approach. Trading the pick gives us the ability to keep the core pieces together and retain a major upgrade piece without worrying about cap space.

[bravor]

The upgrade that is the most critical for this team is obviously the complement for Cody. And it has to be a rim protector.

I cannot think of a better fit than Robin Lopez, but if there is a profile like this (good on pnr in offense especially on face up jumpers from midrange, good on the dirty work/picks, coachable, efficient in the post to lower opponent's fg's..) then Cho has to make it happen (without touching to the core).

I would not understand a move that would land here an expensive player at the wings (and that works for Ibaka who is becoming more & more a perimeter soft player, nowhere close to who he was with okc in the beginning). Clifford don't play small except when he has no other choice. you can't afford to build a roster without having a perfect complement for cody, it's pretty clear through 1 and a half season. Adams is locked, you move on to these kind of targets (not shiny stats but efficient & tough C's).

There is no good enough prospect in next draft for bigs to fix the need (unless you can get the bpa and trade him for one of the previous guys or similar talent).

Once this part is done, then you can work on the combo guard or pg position (but it's a lesser problem right now imo).

[BatumtheGlue]

Meh, he's 28 and hasn't played a single minute of NBA basketball in the last two years. I'm skeptical that he can help an NBA team this season.

Still worth a try, because we"ll get him without sacrificing our assets, except the cap space.

[Vanderbilt_Grad]

The upgrade that is the most critical for this team is obviously the complement for Cody. And it has to be a rim protector.

I cannot think of a better fit than Robin Lopez, but if there is a profile like this (good on pnr in offense especially on face up jumpers from midrange, good on the dirty work/picks, coachable, efficient in the post to lower opponent's fg's..) then Cho has to make it happen (without touching to the core).

I would not understand a move that would land here an expensive player at the wings (and that works for Ibaka who is becoming more & more a perimeter soft player, nowhere close to who he was with okc in the beginning). Clifford don't play small except when he has no other choice. you can't afford to build a roster without having a perfect complement for cody, it's pretty clear through 1 and a half season. Adams is locked, you move on to these kind of targets (not shiny stats but efficient & tough C's).

There is no good enough prospect in next draft for bigs to fix the need (unless you can get the bpa and trade him for one of the previous guys or similar talent).

Once this part is done, then you can work on the combo guard or pg position (but it's a lesser problem right now imo).

IMHO it looks like this now only because Cody is out. If Kemba was out for a similar period it would be even worse.

[chellis]

So, just a fun scenario so we can actually get back to hypothetical trades to evaluate. Let's say Steph Curry, Gordon Hayward, or some max salary player let's it be known he will sign in Charlotte this offseason and we want to sign him. We don't have the cap space. Propose your series of trades to get us the cap space while still making this an attractive destination as possible. You can specify who your free agent of choice is. And go!

[Vanderbilt_Grad]

For Hayward, just trade MKG to the 76ers for Noel or Okafor. Renounce Sessions (team option), Wood, & Hibbert. Renounce Hawes or trade him for a 2nd if he doesn't opt out. That alone should get you pretty close without tanking the team, though someone like Beli or Lamb might need to go too. Alternately you could work out a sign & trade with Utah centered around MKG (something I really wish they had done two years ago in retrospect).

If it's Curry, I think it's the same deal except that you are looking at trading Kemba.

[yosemiteben]

Pretty sure Sessions has a PO. Like 90% sure, but maybe I'm wrong.

[Braggins]

I'd rather trade Batum if we were getting Hayward. There is too much overlap with Hayward/Batum and Hayward is just a better version of what we need at SG. He can be a lead facilitator, maybe not quite on par with Nic, but while also being a primary scoring option. Hayward seems like the better defender, but we still wouldn't want him trying to be a primary scoring option and our primary defensive stopper on the wing, so I think we'd be better off pairing him with MKG. We'd also be paying Hayward a massive salary, so it would make more sense to offload Batum's rather large salary than MKG's mediocre salary, and to keep the better fitting player who is on a more team friendly deal.

[Vanderbilt_Grad]

Pretty sure Sessions has a PO. Like 90% sure, but maybe I'm wrong.

Team option.

[yosemiteben]

Pretty sure Sessions has a PO. Like 90% sure, but maybe I'm wrong.

Team option.

Spotrac has it as a PO - http://www.spotrac.com/nba/charlotte-hornets/ramon-sessions-2566/

Where are you seeing team?

[Vanderbilt_Grad]

I'd rather trade Batum if we were getting Hayward. There is too much overlap with Hayward/Batum and Hayward is just a better version of what we need at SG. He can be a lead facilitator, maybe not quite on par with Nic, but while also being a primary scoring option. Hayward seems like the better defender, but we still wouldn't want him trying to be a primary scoring option and our primary defensive stopper on the wing, so I think we'd be better off pairing him with MKG. We'd also be paying Hayward a massive salary, so it would make more sense to offload Batum's rather large salary than MKG's mediocre salary, and to keep the better fitting player who is on a more team friendly deal.

Just MHO, but the more facilitators you have the better. Team ball, best shot mentality, etc. I'm not convinced that Hayward could really do some of what Nic does. Even little things like pointing to show Kemba where to pass (a real thing from the GSW game that lead to a score). I do feel that Nic is underperforming based on his contract, but I also think that a lot of subtle improvement in the team are due to his play.

I love MKG's defense, but I actually trust Cliff on building a scheme that would make the most of what guys have on that end if MKG weren't here.

As for salary I'm with you.

[Vanderbilt_Grad]

Pretty sure Sessions has a PO. Like 90% sure, but maybe I'm wrong.

Team option.

Spotrac has it as a PO - http://www.spotrac.com/nba/charlotte-hornets/ramon-sessions-2566/

Where are you seeing team?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/contracts/CHO.html
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/teams/cha/salary
http://hoopshype.com/salaries/charlotte_hornets/
http://www.basketballinsiders.com/charlotte-hornets-team-salary/

Pretty much every other site I look at.

[yosemiteben]

lol hmm, guess I'm not using spotrac anymore.

[Braggins]

I'd rather trade Batum if we were getting Hayward. There is too much overlap with Hayward/Batum and Hayward is just a better version of what we need at SG. He can be a lead facilitator, maybe not quite on par with Nic, but while also being a primary scoring option. Hayward seems like the better defender, but we still wouldn't want him trying to be a primary scoring option and our primary defensive stopper on the wing, so I think we'd be better off pairing him with MKG. We'd also be paying Hayward a massive salary, so it would make more sense to offload Batum's rather large salary than MKG's mediocre salary, and to keep the better fitting player who is on a more team friendly deal.

Just MHO, but the more facilitators you have the better. Team ball, best shot mentality, etc. I'm not convinced that Hayward could really do some of what Nic does. Even little things like pointing to show Kemba where to pass (a real thing from the GSW game that lead to a score). I do feel that Nic is underperforming based on his contract, but I also think that a lot of subtle improvement in the team are due to his play.

I love MKG's defense, but I actually trust Cliff on building a scheme that would make the most of what guys have on that end if MKG weren't here.

As for salary I'm with you.

I think Hayward being a 20+ppg scorer more than makes up for the difference in playmaking. Hes not as advanced as Nic, but hes above average as a playmaker imo. He averaged 5.2apg in 2013/2014 and 3.4apg for his career. I definitely see him averaging in the 4-5apg range here because hed have less pressure to score playing with Kemba and would be at least a bit more focused on doing the kinds of things Nic does than he is in Utah, where he kind of carries the scoring burden for them.

[amcoolio]

Without a doubt Hayward is better than Batum. If Hayward really wants to come here, then I'm all for trading Batum. But no chance Utah trades him. Utah could be a WCF team this year if the cards come right.

[HornetJail]

If Hayward wants to come here, we dump our bench, and sign him. No need to trade MKG or Batum. I'm sure MKG or Marvin would be fine coming off the bench but would still play big minutes with the starters. Our current starting five makes a combined $73,187,803. I'm not attached to a single player on this bench. I'm confident we wouldn't have to fully max Hayward, but we'd be able to do that by dumping Frank, Hawes, Lamb, and Bellinelli, and letting Sessions, Hibbert, and the rest expire. We shouldn't have any problems finding a taker for Bellinelli or Lamb on their contracts, and I think a young team might still trade an early 2nd or a cheap role player for a Frank/Hawes package as a salary dump. We'd have the room exception, minimum contracts, and a rookie off our bench, but a sixth starting caliber player would go a long long way to improving our depth.

I'm very, very interested in the dynamic of that core 6 of Kemba, Hayward, Batum, MKG, Marvin, Zeller. A five man unit of any of those guys would be incredibly interesting. It's versatile- you can go big, small, defensive, offensive, fast, slow, inside, outside, man defense, constant switching defense ... no lineup would be bad. This would be my absolute ideal scenario short of a superstar coming here. Fill out the bench with a shot blocker, a halfway capable playmaker, and some min salary 3 and/or D guys, and we're set. The bench will grow over the years- we'd have that core locked up till 2019 when Kemba, MKG, and Marvin can all opt out. By then Marvin will be old, and Kemba and MKG will command huge contracts, but we'd have bird rights.

The most interesting lineup to me is the small ball with Kemba/Hayward/MKG/Nic/Marvin against teams not running a true center. The versatility would be on a whole different level.

[Eoghan]

The upgrade that is the most critical for this team is obviously the complement for Cody. And it has to be a rim protector.

I cannot think of a better fit than Robin Lopez, but if there is a profile like this (good on pnr in offense especially on face up jumpers from midrange, good on the dirty work/picks, coachable, efficient in the post to lower opponent's fg's..) then Cho has to make it happen (without touching to the core).

I would not understand a move that would land here an expensive player at the wings (and that works for Ibaka who is becoming more & more a perimeter soft player, nowhere close to who he was with okc in the beginning). Clifford don't play small except when he has no other choice. you can't afford to build a roster without having a perfect complement for cody, it's pretty clear through 1 and a half season. Adams is locked, you move on to these kind of targets (not shiny stats but efficient & tough C's).

There is no good enough prospect in next draft for bigs to fix the need (unless you can get the bpa and trade him for one of the previous guys or similar talent).

Once this part is done, then you can work on the combo guard or pg position (but it's a lesser problem right now imo).

Do you mean complement as in back up C, a starting C and moving Cody back to PF or a starting PF that can protect the rim alongside Cody? Sorry if I missed something in your post, my reading comprehension goes down the toilet when it's late.