2017 OKC Thunder Trade Discussion

[bondom34]

Look at parkers stats over his first few (really only been two) seasons vs Melo's. They're remarkably similar.

Melo was at like 2X the scoring on higher usage with a way higher BPM. He also has a much higher assist rate, which is kinda crazy.

Two times the scoring? He averaged 6 more points on 7% higher usage and 3 more shots per. Ts% basically identical. The draw rate is really the only difference. If jabari learns to use his body like Melo to draw fouls then there's nothing separating them.

Their assist percentage is virtually the same? 14.2 vs 14.3

BPM is the only real difference, but jabari spent a year on the sideline so I'm willing to give him that year to catch up.

I was comparing cumulative seasons.

[thor19]

I like oladipo but imagine if we traded ibaka to the bucks for jabari parker and malcolm brogndon

[spearsy23]

Melo was at like 2X the scoring on higher usage with a way higher BPM. He also has a much higher assist rate, which is kinda crazy.

Two times the scoring? He averaged 6 more points on 7% higher usage and 3 more shots per. Ts% basically identical. The draw rate is really the only difference. If jabari learns to use his body like Melo to draw fouls then there's nothing separating them.

Their assist percentage is virtually the same? 14.2 vs 14.3

BPM is the only real difference, but jabari spent a year on the sideline so I'm willing to give him that year to catch up.

I was comparing cumulative seasons.

Penalizing him majorly for that knee injury then.

[bondom34]

Two times the scoring? He averaged 6 more points on 7% higher usage and 3 more shots per. Ts% basically identical. The draw rate is really the only difference. If jabari learns to use his body like Melo to draw fouls then there's nothing separating them.

Their assist percentage is virtually the same? 14.2 vs 14.3

BPM is the only real difference, but jabari spent a year on the sideline so I'm willing to give him that year to catch up.

I was comparing cumulative seasons.

Penalizing him majorly for that knee injury then.

Forgot about that. I'm still not overly impressed by a guy who scores and doesn't defend or do a ton else. If they were trading him there'd be a reason. I don't see a star.

[spearsy23]

I was comparing cumulative seasons.

Penalizing him majorly for that knee injury then.

Forgot about that. I'm still not overly impressed by a guy who scores and doesn't defend or do a ton else. If they were trading him there'd be a reason. I don't see a star.

What does that mean though? He's an average rebounder and little above average a passer for a sf.

[bondom34]

Penalizing him majorly for that knee injury then.

Forgot about that. I'm still not overly impressed by a guy who scores and doesn't defend or do a ton else. If they were trading him there'd be a reason. I don't see a star.

What does that mean though? He's an average rebounder and little above average a passer for a sf.

If you're trading a guy who's Tyson Chandler for a guy who might be Rudy Gay I don't like it. And that's more what I see Parker as.

[spearsy23]

Forgot about that. I'm still not overly impressed by a guy who scores and doesn't defend or do a ton else. If they were trading him there'd be a reason. I don't see a star.

What does that mean though? He's an average rebounder and little above average a passer for a sf.

If you're trading a guy who's Tyson Chandler for a guy who might be Rudy Gay I don't like it. And that's more what I see Parker as.

Shouldn't Steven be a guy who might be Tyson chandler though? I think it's unlikely he ever wins a dpoy. And I think we give Steven way too much respect. He's a 12/7.5/1 guy who is a top 5 defensive center, he isn't a game changer on defense like gobert, his offense is still just meh, his box score numbers are pedestrian, and his rpm is as well. He's a good center, probably top third of the league, but we act like he's untouchable. I mean, he is untouchable because presti wouldn't trade him, but should he actually be?

[getrichordie]

What does that mean though? He's an average rebounder and little above average a passer for a sf.

If you're trading a guy who's Tyson Chandler for a guy who might be Rudy Gay I don't like it. And that's more what I see Parker as.

Shouldn't Steven be a guy who might be Tyson chandler though? I think it's unlikely he ever wins a dpoy. And I think we give Steven way too much respect. He's a 12/7.5/1 guy who is a top 5 defensive center, he isn't a game changer on defense like gobert, his offense is still just meh, his box score numbers are pedestrian, and his rpm is as well. He's a good center, probably top third of the league, but we act like he's untouchable. I mean, he is untouchable because presti wouldn't trade him, but should he actually be?

To answer your question, yes he should be touchable. The question is what value can we get for him? There's a plethora of Center talent in the league right now which drastically shrinks Adams' value. If the correct package is on the table, why not?

[bondom34]

If you're trading a guy who's Tyson Chandler for a guy who might be Rudy Gay I don't like it. And that's more what I see Parker as.

Shouldn't Steven be a guy who might be Tyson chandler though? I think it's unlikely he ever wins a dpoy. And I think we give Steven way too much respect. He's a 12/7.5/1 guy who is a top 5 defensive center, he isn't a game changer on defense like gobert, his offense is still just meh, his box score numbers are pedestrian, and his rpm is as well. He's a good center, probably top third of the league, but we act like he's untouchable. I mean, he is untouchable because presti wouldn't trade him, but should he actually be?

To answer your question, yes he should be touchable. The question is what value can we get for him? There's a plethora of Center talent in the league right now which drastically shrinks Adams' value. If the correct package is on the table, why not?

Where is this plethora? Because he's a top 10 guy now and younger than most ahead of him. And I don't see anything like a star in Jabari.

Edit: And here's Adams and Chandler at the same age. I don't see it either.

http://bkref.com/tiny/ErKMg

[bondom34]

What does that mean though? He's an average rebounder and little above average a passer for a sf.

If you're trading a guy who's Tyson Chandler for a guy who might be Rudy Gay I don't like it. And that's more what I see Parker as.

Shouldn't Steven be a guy who might be Tyson chandler though? I think it's unlikely he ever wins a dpoy. And I think we give Steven way too much respect. He's a 12/7.5/1 guy who is a top 5 defensive center, he isn't a game changer on defense like gobert, his offense is still just meh, his box score numbers are pedestrian, and his rpm is as well. He's a good center, probably top third of the league, but we act like he's untouchable. I mean, he is untouchable because presti wouldn't trade him, but should he actually be?

His box numbers are miles ahead of Chandler at his age, and his RPM isn't pedestrian either. He's 6th in RPM wins, and he's 22. If you reasonably assume Embiid passes him and Gasol drops off at some point along with Horford he's top 5.

[getrichordie]

Shouldn't Steven be a guy who might be Tyson chandler though? I think it's unlikely he ever wins a dpoy. And I think we give Steven way too much respect. He's a 12/7.5/1 guy who is a top 5 defensive center, he isn't a game changer on defense like gobert, his offense is still just meh, his box score numbers are pedestrian, and his rpm is as well. He's a good center, probably top third of the league, but we act like he's untouchable. I mean, he is untouchable because presti wouldn't trade him, but should he actually be?

To answer your question, yes he should be touchable. The question is what value can we get for him? There's a plethora of Center talent in the league right now which drastically shrinks Adams' value. If the correct package is on the table, why not?

Where is this plethora? Because he's a top 10 guy now and younger than most ahead of him. And I don't see anything like a star in Jabari.

Edit: And here's Adams and Chandler at the same age. I don't see it either.

http://bkref.com/tiny/ErKMg

Where is this plethora, you ask?

Well you have your obvious ones:

Embiid
Jordan
Gasol
Gobert
Jokic
KAT
Cousins
Noel
Whiteside
Nurkic
Lopez twins
Hernangomez
Zubac
Len
Nogueira
Turner

And I'm sure there's more I can't list. The point being is that there isn't a massive gap between Adams a lot of these young up & comers. And then when you factor in Adams contract versus expected production, then that's where you see his value decline.

[bondom34]

Where is this plethora, you ask?

Well you have your obvious ones:

Embiid
Jordan
Gasol
Gobert
Jokic
KAT
Cousins
Noel
Whiteside
Nurkic
Lopez twins
Hernangomez
Zubac
Len
Nogueira
Turner

And I'm sure there's more I can't list. The point being is that there isn't a massive gap between Adams a lot of these young up & comers. And then when you factor in Adams contract versus expected production, then that's where you see his value decline.

Um....he's better than all but about 5 of those. And at the bottom of the list you're naming 3rd stringers.

If you want to say his contract isn't worth it, mention the same for Jordan, Gobert, Gasol, Noel, and Whiteside. Everyone on that list from Noel down he's much better than and a few toward the end aren't even close to good. There's not many good bigs today. He's one of them.

[spearsy23]

If you're trading a guy who's Tyson Chandler for a guy who might be Rudy Gay I don't like it. And that's more what I see Parker as.

Shouldn't Steven be a guy who might be Tyson chandler though? I think it's unlikely he ever wins a dpoy. And I think we give Steven way too much respect. He's a 12/7.5/1 guy who is a top 5 defensive center, he isn't a game changer on defense like gobert, his offense is still just meh, his box score numbers are pedestrian, and his rpm is as well. He's a good center, probably top third of the league, but we act like he's untouchable. I mean, he is untouchable because presti wouldn't trade him, but should he actually be?

His box numbers are miles ahead of Chandler at his age, and his RPM isn't pedestrian either. He's 6th in RPM wins, and he's 22. If you reasonably assume Embiid passes him and Gasol drops off at some point along with Horford he's top 5.

By box numbers you mean points? Because chandler was better in rebounds, blocks, and turnovers even without accounting for per 36's. His BPM was better as well. Basically the only reason anyone could say Steven is better is because chandler only took 3.5 shots per game.

He's 6th in rpm wins (7th when you count boogie who isn't pf), 13th in RPM, and 9th among starters. (also when have you EVER used RPM wins in one these discussions before?)

I would expect embiid, turner, and jokic all have chance to pass him, and there will be other guys drafted as well, plus boogie. He may be a top 5 center for a year or two but that makes him what the 70th best player the NBA?

[spearsy23]

Where is this plethora, you ask?

Well you have your obvious ones:

Embiid
Jordan
Gasol
Gobert
Jokic
KAT
Cousins
Noel
Whiteside
Nurkic
Lopez twins
Hernangomez
Zubac
Len
Nogueira
Turner

And I'm sure there's more I can't list. The point being is that there isn't a massive gap between Adams a lot of these young up & comers. And then when you factor in Adams contract versus expected production, then that's where you see his value decline.

Um....he's better than all but about 5 of those. And at the bottom of the list you're naming 3rd stringers.

If you want to say his contract isn't worth it, mention the same for Jordan, Gobert, Gasol, Noel, and Whiteside. Everyone on that list from Noel down he's much better than and a few toward the end aren't even close to good. There's not many good bigs today. He's one of them.

Whiteside and Noel definitely aren't worth Max deals. As for the other three, using your rpm wins Steven is as far behind them as noguiera is behind him.

[bondom34]

Shouldn't Steven be a guy who might be Tyson chandler though? I think it's unlikely he ever wins a dpoy. And I think we give Steven way too much respect. He's a 12/7.5/1 guy who is a top 5 defensive center, he isn't a game changer on defense like gobert, his offense is still just meh, his box score numbers are pedestrian, and his rpm is as well. He's a good center, probably top third of the league, but we act like he's untouchable. I mean, he is untouchable because presti wouldn't trade him, but should he actually be?

His box numbers are miles ahead of Chandler at his age, and his RPM isn't pedestrian either. He's 6th in RPM wins, and he's 22. If you reasonably assume Embiid passes him and Gasol drops off at some point along with Horford he's top 5.

By box numbers you mean points? Because chandler was better in rebounds, blocks, and turnovers even without accounting for per 36's. His BPM was better as well. Basically the only reason anyone could say Steven is better is because chandler only took 3.5 shots per game.

He's 6th in rpm wins (7th when you count boogie who isn't pf), 13th in RPM, and 9th among starters. (also when have you EVER used RPM wins in one these discussions before?)

I would expect embiid, turner, and jokic all have chance to pass him, and there will be other guys drafted as well, plus boogie. He may be a top 5 center for a year or two but that makes him what the 70th best player the NBA?

I use RPM wins when I want to account for guys who aren't backups.

And Gasol, Horford, and DJ will fall off. And KAT is a better player but sucks defensively (which personally I value more in a big but he's 100 percent the more valuable player). I'm not sure how that's underperforming anything.

[bondom34]

Where is this plethora, you ask?

Well you have your obvious ones:

Embiid
Jordan
Gasol
Gobert
Jokic
KAT
Cousins
Noel
Whiteside
Nurkic
Lopez twins
Hernangomez
Zubac
Len
Nogueira
Turner

And I'm sure there's more I can't list. The point being is that there isn't a massive gap between Adams a lot of these young up & comers. And then when you factor in Adams contract versus expected production, then that's where you see his value decline.

Um....he's better than all but about 5 of those. And at the bottom of the list you're naming 3rd stringers.

If you want to say his contract isn't worth it, mention the same for Jordan, Gobert, Gasol, Noel, and Whiteside. Everyone on that list from Noel down he's much better than and a few toward the end aren't even close to good. There's not many good bigs today. He's one of them.

Whiteside and Noel definitely aren't worth Max deals. As for the other three, using your rpm wins Steven is as far behind them as noguiera is behind him.

Gasol's contract is going to be iffy in a couple years. As for the first 2, he's also equally as far ahead of Embiid.

[spearsy23]

His box numbers are miles ahead of Chandler at his age, and his RPM isn't pedestrian either. He's 6th in RPM wins, and he's 22. If you reasonably assume Embiid passes him and Gasol drops off at some point along with Horford he's top 5.

By box numbers you mean points? Because chandler was better in rebounds, blocks, and turnovers even without accounting for per 36's. His BPM was better as well. Basically the only reason anyone could say Steven is better is because chandler only took 3.5 shots per game.

He's 6th in rpm wins (7th when you count boogie who isn't pf), 13th in RPM, and 9th among starters. (also when have you EVER used RPM wins in one these discussions before?)

I would expect embiid, turner, and jokic all have chance to pass him, and there will be other guys drafted as well, plus boogie. He may be a top 5 center for a year or two but that makes him what the 70th best player the NBA?

I use RPM wins when I want to account for guys who aren't backups.

And Gasol, Horford, and DJ will fall off. And KAT is a better player but sucks defensively (which personally I value more in a big but he's 100 percent the more valuable player). I'm not sure how that's underperforming anything.

I never said he was under- performing. He's just nowhere near as good or valuable as we pretend.

Also, I've been lending lots of credence to rpm because it actually greatly favors Steven, but what do you think his rpm would look like if he was put in embiid's place?

[spearsy23]

Um....he's better than all but about 5 of those. And at the bottom of the list you're naming 3rd stringers.

If you want to say his contract isn't worth it, mention the same for Jordan, Gobert, Gasol, Noel, and Whiteside. Everyone on that list from Noel down he's much better than and a few toward the end aren't even close to good. There's not many good bigs today. He's one of them.

Whiteside and Noel definitely aren't worth Max deals. As for the other three, using your rpm wins Steven is as far behind them as noguiera is behind him.

Gasol's contract is going to be iffy in a couple years. As for the first 2, he's also equally as far ahead of Embiid.

I'm not sure the relevance, embiid isn't making the max and is a rookie...

[bondom34]

Whiteside and Noel definitely aren't worth Max deals. As for the other three, using your rpm wins Steven is as far behind them as noguiera is behind him.

Gasol's contract is going to be iffy in a couple years. As for the first 2, he's also equally as far ahead of Embiid.

I'm not sure the relevance, embiid isn't making the max and is a rookie...

Yeah it really wasn't.

I never said he was under- performing. He's just nowhere near as good or valuable as we pretend.

Also, I've been lending lots of credence to rpm because it actually greatly favors Steven, but what do you think his rpm would look like if he was put in embiid's place?

I'm not sure what we're pretending? I mean, he's what I've said, a top 10 center, he's 22, and piles of potential. I see more than Chandler.

As for Philly, look at this roster outside Russ.

[spearsy23]

I'm not sure what we're pretending? I mean, he's what I've said, a top 10 center, he's 22, and piles of potential. I see more than Chandler.

What's the real value of the tenth best center? How much better is 10 than 15? If you can get a high upside upgrade then there's no reason to balk at trading Steven. I'm not saying jabari is necessarily that guy, though I'd go for it.

Also Fwiw I just checked the PF RPM and found that jokic and Dieng are both listed as PF's and have more rpm wins than Steven. And there's the prevailing thought that Porzingis will eventually move to center as well.

As for Philly, look at this roster outside Russ.

That's a big 'outside', and Vic would still be the best guard on Philly's roster. But behind that with Russ off and Steven on he is shooting 40%, has a trb% of 14.8, tov% 20.7, the team has a 94.2 O-rtg and 104.9 d-rtg. His rpm would be awful.