Tankapolooza: Draft Lottery Odds/Watch thread

[Blue_and_Whte]

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Going 2-7 over the last 9, this team's tank got real once we brought Vuc back into the starting lineup. (10-13 before that, with him off the bench)

At least he can lead us to the promised land one way or another!

Payton was also inserted back into the starting line up and we've also lost Fournier, and Meeks so its not like this team is the least bit complete. We aren't losing because of Nik starting. We're losing because this team had already given up. It doesn't matter who starting or not we're not going to be a good team without an elite player.

[OrlandoNed]

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Going 2-7 over the last 9, this team's tank got real once we brought Vuc back into the starting lineup. (10-13 before that, with him off the bench)

At least he can lead us to the promised land one way or another!

Payton was also inserted back into the starting line up and we've also lost Fournier, and Meeks so its not like this team is the least bit complete. We aren't losing because of Nik starting. We're losing because we don't have an elite player on our team.

We're also losing because of the team's often atrocious effort level.

[Blue_and_Whte]

Going 2-7 over the last 9, this team's tank got real once we brought Vuc back into the starting lineup. (10-13 before that, with him off the bench)

At least he can lead us to the promised land one way or another!

Payton was also inserted back into the starting line up and we've also lost Fournier, and Meeks so its not like this team is the least bit complete. We aren't losing because of Nik starting. We're losing because we don't have an elite player on our team.

We're also losing because of the team's often atrocious effort level.

Vogel should've kept the starting lineup as it was and let them work out the early struggles instead of forcing a back up center in there just because Hennigan decided to overpay him.

[NEM]

Payton was also inserted back into the starting line up and we've also lost Fournier, and Meeks so its not like this team is the least bit complete. We aren't losing because of Nik starting. We're losing because we don't have an elite player on our team.

We're also losing because of the team's often atrocious effort level.

Vogel should've kept the starting lineup as it was and let them work out the early struggles instead of forcing a back up center in there just because Hennigan decided to overpay him.

thats what centers cost nowadays

[drsd]

Ruining tank to me would be shooting outselfs from top 5 worst record to 11th worst record,still nowhere near playoffs and better than tanking teams for no reason. Especially if Vogel will just keep rolling with Green,Watson and Augustin like they are key players for Magic future.

A 36-46 conclusion thus squarely fits your worst case.


..

[Blue_and_Whte]

We're also losing because of the team's often atrocious effort level.

Vogel should've kept the starting lineup as it was and let them work out the early struggles instead of forcing a back up center in there just because Hennigan decided to overpay him.

thats what centers cost nowadays

Exactly and how dare I expect him to at least be competent in other areas of the game. That's such a tired ass excuse. He's overrated and Hennigan fell for his one playoff performance. Pathetic. I'm not on the fire Hennigan bus as much as you are but this was a failed offseason imo.

[OrlandO]

Payton was also inserted back into the starting line up and we've also lost Fournier, and Meeks so its not like this team is the least bit complete. We aren't losing because of Nik starting. We're losing because we don't have an elite player on our team.

We're also losing because of the team's often atrocious effort level.

Vogel should've kept the starting lineup as it was and let them work out the early struggles instead of forcing a back up center in there just because Hennigan decided to overpay him.

Vogel saw Biz up close in 11 games last season... Biz had some good to great games against him. I think it's likely Vogel had a big part in the signing and had no problem benching Vuc.

[Blue_and_Whte]

We're also losing because of the team's often atrocious effort level.

Vogel should've kept the starting lineup as it was and let them work out the early struggles instead of forcing a back up center in there just because Hennigan decided to overpay him.

Vogel saw Biz up close in 11 games last season... Biz had some good to great games against him. I think it's likely Vogel had a big part in the signing and had no problem benching Vuc.

Understood and agree however, its obvious He fell for it just like Hennigan did.

[PennytoShaq]

We're also losing because of the team's often atrocious effort level.

Vogel should've kept the starting lineup as it was and let them work out the early struggles instead of forcing a back up center in there just because Hennigan decided to overpay him.

Vogel saw Biz up close in 11 games last season... Biz had some good to great games against him. I think it's likely Vogel had a big part in the signing and had no problem benching Vuc.

Of course he did. And guys who can rim protect get bigger contracts, that's how it works.

I think Frank believes he can make Biz into a monster defender. He has not given up on him like some people here have, but that is the nature of a message board poster.

[Blue_and_Whte]

Vogel should've kept the starting lineup as it was and let them work out the early struggles instead of forcing a back up center in there just because Hennigan decided to overpay him.

Vogel saw Biz up close in 11 games last season... Biz had some good to great games against him. I think it's likely Vogel had a big part in the signing and had no problem benching Vuc.

Of course he did. And guys who can rim protect get bigger contracts, that's how it works.

I think Frank believes he can make Biz into a monster defender. He has not given up on him like some people here have, but that is the nature of a message board poster.

Biz is a bum and wont work unless we add an elite wing player to offset his complete lack of anything else basketball related. Vucevic is the better player and its not even close. Always has been and always will be. The only thing monster about Biyombo is his monster contract.

[OrlandO]

Vogel should've kept the starting lineup as it was and let them work out the early struggles instead of forcing a back up center in there just because Hennigan decided to overpay him.

Vogel saw Biz up close in 11 games last season... Biz had some good to great games against him. I think it's likely Vogel had a big part in the signing and had no problem benching Vuc.

Of course he did. And guys who can rim protect get bigger contracts, that's how it works.

I think Frank believes he can make Biz into a monster defender. He has not given up on him like some people here have, but that is the nature of a message board poster.

Vogel thought he was already a monster defender. "Beast" is the word he kept using... not anymore though. If he thought Biz needed work to get there he would have brought him along more slowly and made it clear the more polished Vuc was the starter for the year. Complete mismanagement of both centers.

[PennytoShaq]

Vogel saw Biz up close in 11 games last season... Biz had some good to great games against him. I think it's likely Vogel had a big part in the signing and had no problem benching Vuc.

Of course he did. And guys who can rim protect get bigger contracts, that's how it works.

I think Frank believes he can make Biz into a monster defender. He has not given up on him like some people here have, but that is the nature of a message board poster.

Biz is a bum and wont work unless we add an elite wing player to offset his complete lack of anything else basketball related. Vucevic is the better player and its not even close. Always has been and always will be. The only thing monster about Biyombo is his monster contract.

A bum? The guy is one of the hardest workers on our team every night. This place cracks me up sometimes.

[PennytoShaq]

Vogel saw Biz up close in 11 games last season... Biz had some good to great games against him. I think it's likely Vogel had a big part in the signing and had no problem benching Vuc.

Of course he did. And guys who can rim protect get bigger contracts, that's how it works.

I think Frank believes he can make Biz into a monster defender. He has not given up on him like some people here have, but that is the nature of a message board poster.

Vogel thought he was already a monster defender. "Beast" is the word he kept using... not anymore though. If he thought Biz needed work to get there he would have brought him along more slowly and made it clear the more polished Vuc was the starter for the year. Complete mismanagement of both centers.

No actually the Magic were pretty clear that they would rotate C's. Vogel said it many times that he would use different guys in different situations. I think it is clear that Frank likes having depth at 5.

Vuc finally improved his rim defense. Something he had not done before under any prior coach, so it is not like anyone saw it coming for sure. Of course, I rarely read Vogel getting any credit for that here.

[OrlandO]

Of course he did. And guys who can rim protect get bigger contracts, that's how it works.

I think Frank believes he can make Biz into a monster defender. He has not given up on him like some people here have, but that is the nature of a message board poster.

Vogel thought he was already a monster defender. "Beast" is the word he kept using... not anymore though. If he thought Biz needed work to get there he would have brought him along more slowly and made it clear the more polished Vuc was the starter for the year. Complete mismanagement of both centers.

No actually the Magic were pretty clear that they would rotate C's. Vogel said it many times that he would use different guys in different situations. I think it is clear that Frank likes having depth at 5.

Vuc finally improved his rim defense. Something he had not done before under any prior coach, so it is not like anyone saw it coming for sure. Of course, I rarely read Vogel getting any credit for that here.

Vogel said a lot of things. "We want a shot blocker on the floor for 48 minutes"... plays frontcourt combos of rudez/vuc, green/vuc, benches vuc to start both shot blockers and starts playing the green/vuc combo even more. Remember when he said we'd play AG like Paul George?

How about we look at actions instead of words. They paid Biz big money, they wouldn't commit to starting our 18/10 center, then they benched vuc early when he was working his ass off and took forever to bring him back when biz wasn't performing. There is no doubt they wanted to rush biz into the SL.

Credit to Vogel? How about credit to Skiles? Vuc was away from the team all summer and came out of the gates playing great defense. That doesn't happen overnight.

[NEM]

I wouldn't call biz a bum because he genuinely seems like a tireless worker, however he has no basketball skill so that hard work will only get you so far. You have to have base skills and he just simply doesn't. Whatever he does on defense is negated and then some on the other end where we are playing 4 on 5 (or even 3 on 5 depending who else is on the floor), because he can't catch a pass, let alone do anything else. His help defense is good and his switching is good to great, but how many times does that happen during the game? He gets abused in the post by bigger guys (which is most 5's considering he's 6'9" with a weak base) more often than he switches on to point guards on the perimeter. He just simply isn't good enough and you cannot justify his contract. Some posters in here act as if Hennigan has never done anything wrong and try so tirelessly to justify every move he ever makes. Face it, every GM makes bad moves. Some more than others. The great ones make bad moves but they make great ones that diminish the effect of the bad ones. We all know Hennigan is far from great. He's a bottom 5 GM in the league, and maybe the worst as far as I'm concerned. He hasn't made a single good signing since he's been here. He made 2 good trades, one of which he negated by trading away Harris for trash. Biyombo is just another blemish on his horrible, horrible tenure as an NBA GM.

[rcklsscognition]

I think we should keep track of any misguided wins for reference at the draft lottery. I have us at a total of 1, last night, and will be keeping track from here on out. There was another game earlier in the year I deemed an idiotic win but it was too early in the season to count for these purposes. Please feel free to nominate any wins from here on out as misguided and they will be considered.

Misguided Wins

#1- Orlando Magic @ Toronto Raptors 1/29/2017

Cause: A diatribe by Frank Vogel- http://www.orlandosentinel.com/g00/sports/orlando-magic/os-sp-magic-raptors-game-0130-story.html?i10c.referrer=https%3A%2F%2Ft.co%2FMZycNeARbT

Highlights: Jeff Green plays 1 more minute than AG. Mario DNP-CD. CJ Watson logs 34 minutes.

Game thread link:
http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1518010

[BCS]

I think we should keep track of any misguided wins for reference at the draft lottery. I have us at a total of 1, last night, and will be keeping track from here on out. There was another game earlier in the year I deemed an idiotic win but it was too early in the season to count for these purposes. Please feel free to nominate any wins from here on out as misguided and they will be considered.

Someone should create a thread updating the meaningless wins, with a link to the game threads just for future reference.

In fact, this same thread could work if NEM is up to it. lol

[PennytoShaq]

Vogel thought he was already a monster defender. "Beast" is the word he kept using... not anymore though. If he thought Biz needed work to get there he would have brought him along more slowly and made it clear the more polished Vuc was the starter for the year. Complete mismanagement of both centers.

No actually the Magic were pretty clear that they would rotate C's. Vogel said it many times that he would use different guys in different situations. I think it is clear that Frank likes having depth at 5.

Vuc finally improved his rim defense. Something he had not done before under any prior coach, so it is not like anyone saw it coming for sure. Of course, I rarely read Vogel getting any credit for that here.

Vogel said a lot of things. "We want a shot blocker on the floor for 48 minutes"... plays frontcourt combos of rudez/vuc, green/vuc, benches vuc to start both shot blockers and starts playing the green/vuc combo even more. Remember when he said we'd play AG like Paul George?

How about we look at actions instead of words. They paid Biz big money, they wouldn't commit to starting our 18/10 center, then they benched vuc early when he was working his ass off and took forever to bring him back when biz wasn't performing. There is no doubt they wanted to rush biz into the SL.

Credit to Vogel? How about credit to Skiles? Vuc was away from the team all summer and came out of the gates playing great defense. That doesn't happen overnight.

Last time I checked, PG13 played SF in Vogels offense and so does AG.

If you really want to credit Skiles for Vuc's defense, when Vuc was godawful at it last year under Skiles, you simply are an irrational hater of Vogel and there is no use entertaining your posts.

It was very clear that Vogel worked with Vuc in preseason. It was talked about multiple times. There is a thing called preseason and it is weeks long.

[Blue_and_Whte]

Of course he did. And guys who can rim protect get bigger contracts, that's how it works.

I think Frank believes he can make Biz into a monster defender. He has not given up on him like some people here have, but that is the nature of a message board poster.

Biz is a bum and wont work unless we add an elite wing player to offset his complete lack of anything else basketball related. Vucevic is the better player and its not even close. Always has been and always will be. The only thing monster about Biyombo is his monster contract.

A bum? The guy is one of the hardest workers on our team every night. This place cracks me up sometimes.

Hes a damn bum who played his way into a contract. 15 minutes for "one of the hardest workers on our team". **** that. Nik came in as a throw in, in the Dwight Howard trade and he's turned himself into one of the better centers in the league. That's hard work. Bismack belongs on a team with elite wing players to hid his absolute massive amount of offensive deficiencies. We constantly play 4 on 5 when he's on the court, which gets worse when he shares the court with Payton and AG.

[Xatticus]

I think we should keep track of any misguided wins for reference at the draft lottery. I have us at a total of 1, last night, and will be keeping track from here on out. There was another game earlier in the year I deemed an idiotic win but it was too early in the season to count for these purposes. Please feel free to nominate any wins from here on out as misguided and they will be considered.

Misguided Wins

#1- Orlando Magic @ Toronto Raptors 1/29/2017

Cause: A diatribe by Frank Vogel- http://www.orlandosentinel.com/g00/sports/orlando-magic/os-sp-magic-raptors-game-0130-story.html?i10c.referrer=https%3A%2F%2Ft.co%2FMZycNeARbT

Highlights: Jeff Green plays 1 more minute than AG. Mario DNP-CD. CJ Watson logs 34 minutes.

Game thread link:
http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1518010

The problem with this is that the coaches and players aren't going to purposively tank, though some players might lose their motivation as the losses pile up. You want a coach that will try to motivate his team to win every night. It's difficult to fault Vogel for trying to win games, particularly when he is taking his marching orders from an individual that might be on the verge of losing his job. Hennigan isn't going to sanction anything that would enhance Orlando's chance at landing a high draft pick unless he has assurances that his head won't roll for it. At this moment, the onus to tank is on those above Hennigan in the food chain.

This might seem misguided to you and me, but this team isn't going to stop trying to grind out wins. We can take some solace in the compensatory draft pick that we will receive for the organization's ineptitude, but it's asking too much to expect this organization to actually appreciate their own futility.