Game 49: Orlando Magic (18-30) @ Toronto Raptors (29-18) - 6:00 PM ET

fendilim · Post #341 » by **fendilim** » Mon Jan 30, 2017 7:15 am

Is it ok to sacrifice the future of this team for a playoff year that we barely make it through (assuming that we do)?

VFX · Post #342 » by **VFX** » Mon Jan 30, 2017 7:28 am

fendilim wrote:Is it ok to sacrifice the future of this team for a playoff year that we barely make it through (assuming that we do)?

No.
No it's not.

drsd · Post #343 » by **drsd** » Mon Jan 30, 2017 8:54 am

..

This game proves winning is fun!

Kill the Tank !

Next stop:

drsd · Post #344 » by **drsd** » Mon Jan 30, 2017 9:10 am

Mc-o wrote:hey im glad we won playing good and not some ugly game. We are not going to lose every game , so for tonight ill enjoy an actual competive game ! Good win. !

The Magic stormed to a great close-out n the final ~5 minutes of the second quarter, and then maintain the lead for the final half. I love that!

What a great effort !!!

..

Patrick1978 · Post #345 » by **Patrick1978** » Mon Jan 30, 2017 9:59 am

MULT DE PROST AICI :evil:

Post #346 » by **SOUL** » Mon Jan 30, 2017 10:16 am

drsd wrote:..

This game proves winning is fun!

Kill the Tank !

Next stop:

Flannerz · Post #347 » by **Flannerz** » Mon Jan 30, 2017 10:59 am

Apologies tankers, it's my fault we won. I cancelled my league pass after the Boston blowout which obviously meant we'd win our next game.

Patrick1978 · Post #348 » by **Patrick1978** » Mon Jan 30, 2017 11:16 am

Can this pepe1991 guy banned please?
I cannot believe this guy is a Magic fan

pepe1991 · Post #349 » by **pepe1991** » Mon Jan 30, 2017 11:28 am

Patrick1978 wrote:Can this pepe1991 guy banned please?
I cannot believe this guy is a Magic fan

Really'? Sorry not all fans are stupid enough to enjoy mediocrity on 19-30 team where 30 years old scrubs are running wild and where young guys are buried on bench or play backups for Jeff Green.

This team MUST tank because they have no talent in present and nothing to hope for in future if they don't make something of this 2017 draft pick .

What's endgame of this CJ-DJ-Green core team? Will you ever compete for playoffs with 3 of them logging 30 mpg? Will team resign Ibaka on crazy money and will it signal end of Gordon with Magic? He is NOT SF and because of 28 years old Ibaka that is average player his development will be ruined or he will ask to leave ?!

This team does everything wrong. They had 40 games to prove they can compete for playoffs, and they fall 11 games behind .500. Now, when it's clear that it's time to tank, clean a house and start over their coach decided to bench Hezonja, pull Gordon out for Green, play 8 men rotation and "grind" to wins? Don't you see it? IT's 2013-14 all over agian. Remember wins from Nelson, Afflalo and Fat Baby? They all played 30 min and because of some wins that literally NOBODY can remember this team didn't end up with Embiid but Gordon. :banghead:

Why will i root for wins at this stage? Will they make playoffs? They will never pass Hornets, Knicks, Bulls AND Bucks to get there. HOWEVER, being only 3,4 wins behind bottom of the league could help Magic get top 5 pick in really,really talented draft. But Magic will find a way how win enough games, just to hurt their draft stock and still have no hopes for playoffs. SO yea. enjoy wins lead by 30 min from Jeff Green and DJ Augustin. I simply can't.

Last Guardian · Post #350 » by **Last Guardian** » Mon Jan 30, 2017 12:17 pm

It is good to win once in a while. But the future of the team is more important to me.

cedric76 · Post #351 » by **cedric76** » Mon Jan 30, 2017 12:51 pm

NickAnderson wrote:I can't believe people are complaining about a win

Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

They r just losers

Sent from my SM-A310F using RealGM mobile app

OrlandoNed · Post #352 » by **OrlandoNed** » Mon Jan 30, 2017 2:10 pm

Classic Magic: Lose when you should be winning, win when you should be losing.

woosah · Post #353 » by **woosah** » Mon Jan 30, 2017 2:37 pm

OrlandO wrote:Vogel just called Vuc a a heck of a two way player.... a week ago he told payton he was wrong for benching him and would never bench him late in the game again. **** off vogel, you benched both these guys when we were still actually playing for something.

Well i can respect that he is willing to admit a mistake and enhance a relationship.

I am done with Rob though. The rumor of Vuc being put up for Dragic took me there. I tried with him but no.

Post #354 » by **SD2042** » Mon Jan 30, 2017 2:54 pm

drsd wrote:..

This game proves winning is fun!

Kill the Tank !

Next stop:

This post defines the bipolar effect!

Once the Magic loses another game, the tank will be back on full speed ahead. :nonono:

As much as I hate to say. :banghead:

Magic_Kingdom · Post #355 » by **Magic_Kingdom** » Mon Jan 30, 2017 3:36 pm

I'm not sure Vogel can do much positive or negative to impact a tanking strategy, if there is one. Every day on this board people talk about how terrible Jeff Green is. He has a good game and the Magic upset the Raptors, and now people are upset because playing veterans means we are not tanking?

The team is really bad, and the roster is what it is. If Vogel were to play Mario instead of Green the rest of the season, Mario would probably have a good game once in a while that would contribute to a win. The coach works with the roster he's given. The quality of the roster largely determines how good or bad the team is.

If a team is really tanking, that's a management thing, not a coaching or on-court thing (unless you are actually throwing games). So it's hard to say we didn't tank hard enough and that's why we didn't get star players. The roster was pretty damn bad, and the Magic were one of the worst teams in the NBA. For 3 consecutive years they got Top 5 players in the Draft.

In 2014, the Magic had the 3rd worst record in the NBA (23 wins), but short of fake injuring half the roster they weren't catching Philadelphia (19 wins) or Milwaukee (15). Even losing 3 more games wouldn't have made a difference in our odds. We missed out on a Top 3 pick (and Embiid) because Cleveland, with the 8th worst record, jumped everybody and got Wiggins.

In 2015, we weren't much better -- 25 wins. But this time we had the 5th worst record because there were more bad teams. Again, the next worst team -- the Lakers -- had 4 less wins (21), so even losing 3 more games wouldn't have changed the odds. The Knicks got Porzingis at #4 and had the 2nd worst record with 17 wins -- 8 less wins than us. So the difference was much more than a few wins here or there -- as horrible as we were, the Knicks were that much worse. And that was the year Vaughn got fired and Borrego took over after the team completely quit -- we were THAT BAD. A DUMPSTER FIRE.

(Note in 2014, the Cavs miraculously jumped into the Top 3 to get Wiggins, and in 2014 the Lakers snuck into the Top 3 to get Russell. Funny how luck works for certain teams).

The point is, what the team, or a player, does on a particular night doesn't really matter that much in the big picture. If you want to try to guarantee a Top 3 pick, which is impossible, you do that with a chain-saw, not a scalpel.

BCS · Post #356 » by **BCS** » Mon Jan 30, 2017 4:18 pm

Magic_Kingdom wrote:The team is really bad, and the roster is what it is. If Vogel were to play Mario instead of Green the rest of the season, Mario would probably have a good game once in a while that would contribute to a win. The coach works with the roster he's given. The quality of the roster largely determines how good or bad the team is.

And I'd be ok with that. Two things we need to try to accomplish on every game from now on:

1) Lose
2) Develop our young core players. (Mario, Elf, AG)

Last night neither of these was accomplished and that is why a lot of us are upset. I'm on board with the "tank", but I also know we are not losing every game and a win here and there is not the worst thing for us. But when you have CJ, DJ, and Jeff leading us to victory that doesn't accomplish any of our two goals mentioned above. Vuc having a great game does not bother me, but he alone didn't win this game, it took those 3 other players.

For the rest of the season the Magic need to prioritize the development of those 3 players and I don't mean just play them, I mean when they are on the court have them involved and run the offensive sets through them, not just have them stand in the corner, make them the focal point. They will make mistakes and learn from them. And whenever there is a game where they play well and carry us, even when I know we should be losing for a chance at a better pick, I'd be fine with the win because our young guys are showing us they can take care of business and get us some wins.

pepe1991 · Post #357 » by **pepe1991** » Mon Jan 30, 2017 4:20 pm

Magic_Kingdom wrote:I'm not sure Vogel can do much positive or negative to impact a tanking strategy, if there is one. Every day on this board people talk about how terrible Jeff Green is. He has a good game and the Magic upset the Raptors, and now people are upset because playing veterans means we are not tanking?

The team is really bad, and the roster is what it is. If Vogel were to play Mario instead of Green the rest of the season, Mario would probably have a good game once in a while that would contribute to a win. The coach works with the roster he's given. The quality of the roster largely determines how good or bad the team is.

If a team is really tanking, that's a management thing, not a coaching or on-court thing (unless you are actually throwing games). So it's hard to say we didn't tank hard enough and that's why we didn't get star players. The roster was pretty damn bad, and the Magic were one of the worst teams in the NBA. For 3 consecutive years they got Top 5 players in the Draft.

In 2014, the Magic had the 3rd worst record in the NBA (23 wins), but short of fake injuring half the roster they weren't catching Philadelphia (19 wins) or Milwaukee (15). Even losing 3 more games wouldn't have made a difference in our odds. We missed out on a Top 3 pick (and Embiid) because Cleveland, with the 8th worst record, jumped everybody and got Wiggins.

In 2015, we weren't much better -- 25 wins. But this time we had the 5th worst record because there were more bad teams. Again, the next worst team -- the Lakers -- had 4 less wins (21), so even losing 3 more games wouldn't have changed the odds. The Knicks got Porzingis at #4 and had the 2nd worst record with 17 wins -- 8 less wins than us. So the difference was much more than a few wins here or there -- as horrible as we were, the Knicks were that much worse. And that was the year Vaughn got fired and Borrego took over after the team completely quit -- we were THAT BAD. A DUMPSTER FIRE.

(Note in 2014, the Cavs miraculously jumped into the Top 3 to get Wiggins, and in 2014 the Lakers snuck into the Top 3 to get Russell. Funny how luck works for certain teams).

The point is, what the team, or a player, does on a particular night doesn't really matter that much in the big picture. If you want to try to guarantee a Top 3 pick, which is impossible, you do that with a chain-saw, not a scalpel.

SO solution is easy, win zero games to the end of a year, that will be good enough for 2 worst record in the league and should be enough for top 4 pick.

VFX · Post #358 » by **VFX** » Mon Jan 30, 2017 4:21 pm

cedric76 wrote:
NickAnderson wrote:I can't believe people are complaining about a win

Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

They r just losers

Sent from my SM-A310F using RealGM mobile app

If you don't understand why we should tank, you don't understand how the NBA works.

drsd · Post #359 » by **drsd** » Mon Jan 30, 2017 8:56 pm

MagicMatic wrote:If you don't understand why we should tank, you don't understand how the NBA works.

The NBA does not have a great track record of horrible teams becoming good. The reverse is actually true with teams winning in the early lottery for a decade.

Look at how the Celts won their last title. It was through GM brilliance. Trade after trade lead to a perfect roster being built. Plus a late-first ended up being brilliant (Rondo). So yeh there is "luck" in it as well.

Their is only one player on the Cavs that was from their Tank year.

Golden St. is an example of a team tanking their way to greatness. But this is not the most common path.

..

VFX · Post #360 » by **VFX** » Mon Jan 30, 2017 9:06 pm

drsd wrote:
MagicMatic wrote:If you don't understand why we should tank, you don't understand how the NBA works.

The NBA does not have a great track record of horrible teams becoming good. The reverse is actually true with teams winning in the early lottery for a decade.

Look at how the Celts won their last title. It was through GM brilliance. Trade after trade lead to a perfect roster being built. Plus a late-first ended up being brilliant (Rondo). So yeh there is "luck" in it as well.

Their is only one player on the Cavs that was from their Tank year.

Golden St. is an example of a team tanking their way to greatness. But this is not the most common path.

..

While I agree for the most part, we currently need to accrue talent by any means necessary. Our trade offers will not net us anything substantial to build around.