2016-17 MVP Discussion Thread

[Patches Perry]

1. Harden (holding on slightly, team overachieving on pace for 10+ wins more than projected, 5th in PER)
2. Westbrook (averaging triple double, 1st in PER, team is about even with projections)
3. Leonard (3rd in PER, team overachieving a bit with 2nd best record)
4. LeBron (nothing special by his standards, team underachieving, but hes still LeBron)
5. Durant/Curry (taking votes from each other, their value to the team isn't what you'd expect from an MVP because they're so stacked)

[Hero]

Westbrook is in danger of shooting under 40% this season. I genuinely can't understand why there's still a debate between him & Harden.

It's because some have become incredibly wrapped up on triple doubles and basic raw numbers which ignoring usage rate, defense or making the right play.

[bondom34]

Westbrook is in danger of shooting under 40% this season. I genuinely can't understand why there's still a debate between him & Harden.

It's because some have become incredibly wrapped up on triple doubles and basic raw numbers which ignoring usage rate, defense or making the right play.

Basic numbers, like RPM? And ignoring defense but picking Harden? And what's the right play?

Edit: And going to ignore Harden having 125% the TO rate as well I see.

[Starboy]

1. Harden (holding on slightly, team overachieving on pace for 10+ wins more than projected, 5th in PER)
2. Westbrook (averaging triple double, 1st in PER, team is about even with projections)
3. Leonard (3rd in PER, team overachieving a bit with 2nd best record)
4. LeBron (nothing special by his standards, team underachieving, but hes still LeBron)
5. Durant/Curry (taking votes from each other, their value to the team isn't what you'd expect from an MVP because they're so stacked)

If we are doing current rankings than Kawhi should drop since his team just went 2-0 without him and 0-2 with him against worse teams.

[Ballerhogger]

Harden has slight edge going into the All star break. The rough road trip is over , so let's see how he bounces back. Mvp candidates like harden will have highs and lows.

[Just_Somebody]

I really don't dig this year's MVP race. The concencus leading 2 candidates come from non-top tier teams, play mediocre (at best) defense, have the two highest turnover/game numbers (by far) and have their stats inflated by what would be the two highest usage rates in nba history.

[Impuniti]

I really don't dig this year's MVP race. The concencus leading 2 candidates come from non-top tier teams, play mediocre (at best) defense, have the two highest turnover/game numbers (by far) and have their stats inflated by what would be the two highest usage rates in nba history.

There's always other options

Spoiler:

[ken6199]

Houston played league leading 51 games so far, while the league average is around 47-48, some teams even only played 46 games. Anderson, Gordon in and out of the line up, Capela's rustiness accompanied with this long road trip. Now with the a long home stretch coming up, 8 of 10 home games mostly against sub .500 teams, a much needed break for Harden to bounce back.

[K_chile22]

I really don't dig this year's MVP race. The concencus leading 2 candidates come from non-top tier teams, play mediocre (at best) defense, have the two highest turnover/game numbers (by far) and have their stats inflated by what would be the two highest usage rates in nba history.

Last time I looked (like 5 days ago) Harden would be 36th all time in usage rate. That makes his numbers even more impressive. That's not very high. And they both turn the ball over alot, but less than other MVPs like Nash. Their totals are just higher because usage and pace

[Rapcity_11]

I really don't dig this year's MVP race. The concencus leading 2 candidates come from non-top tier teams, play mediocre (at best) defense, have the two highest turnover/game numbers (by far) and have their stats inflated by what would be the two highest usage rates in nba history.

Last time I looked (like 5 days ago) Harden would be 36th all time in usage rate. That makes his numbers even more impressive. That's not very high. And they both turn the ball over alot, but less than other MVPs like Nash. Their totals are just higher because usage and pace

I agree the TO's aren't an issue but no, they don't turn it over less than Nash. Harden is at 7.9 per 100 and Nash was at 4.8 and 4.9 his MVP years. And please don't quote TOV%. It's unfair to guys who pass more than shoot.

[K_chile22]

I really don't dig this year's MVP race. The concencus leading 2 candidates come from non-top tier teams, play mediocre (at best) defense, have the two highest turnover/game numbers (by far) and have their stats inflated by what would be the two highest usage rates in nba history.

Last time I looked (like 5 days ago) Harden would be 36th all time in usage rate. That makes his numbers even more impressive. That's not very high. And they both turn the ball over alot, but less than other MVPs like Nash. Their totals are just higher because usage and pace

I agree the TO's aren't an issue but no, they don't turn it over less than Nash. Harden is at 7.9 per 100 and Nash was at 4.8 and 4.9 his MVP years. And please don't quote TOV%. It's unfair to guys who pass more than shoot.

Usage.

[Rapcity_11]

Last time I looked (like 5 days ago) Harden would be 36th all time in usage rate. That makes his numbers even more impressive. That's not very high. And they both turn the ball over alot, but less than other MVPs like Nash. Their totals are just higher because usage and pace

I agree the TO's aren't an issue but no, they don't turn it over less than Nash. Harden is at 7.9 per 100 and Nash was at 4.8 and 4.9 his MVP years. And please don't quote TOV%. It's unfair to guys who pass more than shoot.

Usage.

Nash handled the ball constantly. That's not a valid argument.

[K_chile22]

I agree the TO's aren't an issue but no, they don't turn it over less than Nash. Harden is at 7.9 per 100 and Nash was at 4.8 and 4.9 his MVP years. And please don't quote TOV%. It's unfair to guys who pass more than shoot.

Usage.

Nash handled the ball constantly. That's not a valid argument.

Nash actually gave the ball up early and would play off ball a lot. Kinda like Steph does. Nash is underrated in that aspect

[PeptoKlepto]

Usage.

Nash handled the ball constantly. That's not a valid argument.

Nash actually gave the ball up early and would play off ball a lot. Kinda like Steph does. Nash is underrated in that aspect

Which is why Curry should still be in the MVP conversation.

When was the last time you saw a player as impactful on/off the ball as Curry? He allows the Warriors to do so many things offensively just w/ his presence.

He'll never get the box score stats tho because he just doesnt spend as much time on the ball as these other two guys.

[The_Hater]

Usage.

Nash handled the ball constantly. That's not a valid argument.

Nash actually gave the ball up early and would play off ball a lot. Kinda like Steph does. Nash is underrated in that aspect

This is simply not true. Nash was employed almost identical to Harden for the same coach, they ran basically every play through him.

Golden State runs most of their half court sets through Green in the high post. Very different systems.

[Deivork]

Been following this conversation from time to time. Do we agree at least on what valuable means or fwiw what should we base our "votes" on?

[Deivork]

Curry/Durant are out. There's next to no shot for either unless Golden State wins over 73 at this point.

Lebron is a maybe, but I'd see him coasting more. Could happen though to go with last year's postseason as a sort of makeup vote.

I'd bet Kawhi, Westbrook, or Harden as most likely with one of CP or Griffin having a shot too.

[bondom34]

Curry/Durant are out. There's next to no shot for either unless Golden State wins over 73 at this point.

Lebron is a maybe, but I'd see him coasting more. Could happen though to go with last year's postseason as a sort of makeup vote.

I'd bet Kawhi, Westbrook, or Harden as most likely with one of CP or Griffin having a shot too.

Old post but I wasn't too far off!