Butler trade rumor - KC Johnson update: pg 63

[Bulls_Fan]

Also, if the Bulls trade Butler by the deadline, don't forget they probably will trade Taj and Niko as well. The Bulls roster post trade deadline looks pretty bad (which is good). You can bet that Wade will be sitting out plenty of games and not killing himself out there. If they stink it up bad enough they could be in the 10th pick and below range.

[Payt10]

No team has any leverage over the Bulls when it comes to a Jimmy trade. I expect fair value in return, which to me, isn't an unresolved draft pick and a mediocre-to-bad prospect.

[DroseReturnChi]

One of the main reasons to trade Butler is to diversify our risks. We have only good asset in Butler and if he goes down like Rose this Bulls team is done for the next decade. There is also a chance Butler runs away from the Bulls after his contract ends for LA. Fultz/DSJ are sure prospects and their potential/ ceiling will be as high as Butler. I mean Giannis is already making Butler kind of weak and he's like only 22?

[League Circles]

To get a decent chance of 2 panning out, you probably need 3 chances (picks or prospect players).

That is what the Bulls own picks are for. A part of the Butler trade value that frequently goes without note is the value to the Bulls picks. You get two types of value by trading Butler and starting over:

1. The tangible value. I.e., the picks/players comprising the immediate return; PLUS

2. Increasing the value of the Bulls own future picks from second half first rounders to mid-to-high lottery picks.

Number 2 is not something another team gives up, yes. But it is nonetheless something the Bulls receive.

IDK, the Bulls receive those for being bad, if they are. Which is a "negative" we also (likely) receive. I would never want to count on being bad and consider that part of the return. To me, the return should be about quantity and upside in return for quality and certainty going out in Butler. In effect, I'd consider trading Butler not for the purpose of tanking, though a terrible team may certainly result, but instead for a decent chance at 2 or 3 Butlers, with a likelihood for one Butleresque player who is much younger than Butler.

[DroseReturnChi]

Also, if the Bulls trade Butler by the deadline, don't forget they probably will trade Taj and Niko as well. The Bulls roster post trade deadline looks pretty bad (which is good). You can bet that Wade will be sitting out plenty of games and not killing himself out there. If they stink it up bad enough they could be in the 10th pick and below range.

If we trade Butler, we call trade Taj,Niko Lopez, Wade for all good prospects/ draft picks. Possibly we might get 5+ lottery picks in a single year and counting.

[DroseReturnChi]

To get a decent chance of 2 panning out, you probably need 3 chances (picks or prospect players).

That is what the Bulls own picks are for. A part of the Butler trade value that frequently goes without note is the value to the Bulls picks. You get two types of value by trading Butler and starting over:

1. The tangible value. I.e., the picks/players comprising the immediate return; PLUS

2. Increasing the value of the Bulls own future picks from second half first rounders to mid-to-high lottery picks.

Number 2 is not something another team gives up, yes. But it is nonetheless something the Bulls receive.

IDK, the Bulls receive those for being bad, if they are. Which is a "negative" we also (likely) receive. I would never want to count on being bad and consider that part of the return. To me, the return should be about quantity and upside in return for quality and certainty going out in Butler. In effect, I'd consider trading Butler not for the purpose of tanking, though a terrible team may certainly result, but instead for a decent chance at 2 or 3 Butlers, with a likelihood for one Butleresque player who is much younger than Butler.

If Butler was 23 or even 25, theres no way I would trade him. But he's just as old as IT and both of them will start to decline slowly. This is why both Boston and Bulls feel uneasy about their stars.

[TheSuzerain]

Butler and RoLo (and Doug if they want him) for Johnson, Jerebko, and Zeller as the salary match.

Celtics throw in 2017 Nets, 2018 Nets, 2019 Grizz, and Jaylen Brown (or not, I don't really care about Brown).

Celtics then start IT/Buckets/Crowder/Horford/RoLo with Avery Bradley, Marcus Smart, and Olynyk off the bench. That team has a multi-year window where they could win the East.

Bulls pick up some premium rebuilding assets and tank hard for the remainder of 2017 and through 2018.

[ArizonaBullsFan]

Uhh. That was an exceptional situation because Cavs GM LeBron was insisting on the trade. GarPax has nowhere near that leverage. PLUS it was obvious at that point that Bennett was garbage. He was basically salary filler.

Bennett's value was low, but not anywhere close to garbage. He and Brown are comparable prospects, in that neither one of them have looked any good as rookies. Anybody acting like Jaylen Brown is some sort of heralded prospect is out of their minds. He was a surprise pick at #3, much the same as Bennett was at #1.

Also, the Bulls don't HAVE to trade Butler if they don't want to. No team has leverage over them at this point, because Jimmy is under contract for several more years and has never once asked to be traded. If the Bulls trade him, it's not going to be for pennies on the dollar. A trade of BKN's pick (if it falls out of the top 2) + Jaylen Brown is garbage.

The Celtics don't HAVE to trade for Butler either. They aren't going to win the ring this year either way.

Probably not, but they have passed Toronto and moved within 2 1/2 games of Cleveland for #1 in the East. You can certainly make an argument that adding Jimmy pushes them past Cleveland into the Finals.

And it's not like the Celtics have forever to keep waiting to make a big move - Thomas turns 28 next week, and Horford will be 31 this summer. By the time the Brooklyn picks are ready to be major contributors, their 2 best players will be on the downside of their careers.

[jnrjr79]

Uhh. That was an exceptional situation because Cavs GM LeBron was insisting on the trade. GarPax has nowhere near that leverage. PLUS it was obvious at that point that Bennett was garbage. He was basically salary filler.

Why does LeBron secretly controlling the Cavs' front office and wanting Love increase Cleveland's leverage?

It didn't. It increased Minny's leverage.

Gotcha, sorry, misread.

[TheSuzerain]

And the Bulls have loads of leverage. Butler is locked up through his prime.

On a value deal, I might add.

[Payt10]

One of the main reasons to trade Butler is to diversify our risks. We have only good asset in Butler and if he goes down like Rose this Bulls team is done for the next decade. There is also a chance Butler runs away from the Bulls after his contract ends for LA. Fultz/DSJ are sure prospects and their potential/ ceiling will be as high as Butler. I mean Giannis is already making Butler kind of weak and he's like only 22?

You don't have to worry about Jimmy leaving in free agency. That's still 3 years away, and the Bulls, I believe, still have the option of signing him to a Demarcus Cousins type extension in the off-season that he would be a fool not to sign.

[DroseReturnChi]

Bennett's value was low, but not anywhere close to garbage. He and Brown are comparable prospects, in that neither one of them have looked any good as rookies. Anybody acting like Jaylen Brown is some sort of heralded prospect is out of their minds. He was a surprise pick at #3, much the same as Bennett was at #1.

Also, the Bulls don't HAVE to trade Butler if they don't want to. No team has leverage over them at this point, because Jimmy is under contract for several more years and has never once asked to be traded. If the Bulls trade him, it's not going to be for pennies on the dollar. A trade of BKN's pick (if it falls out of the top 2) + Jaylen Brown is garbage.

The Celtics don't HAVE to trade for Butler either. They aren't going to win the ring this year either way.

Probably not, but they have passed Toronto and moved within 2 1/2 games of Cleveland for #1 in the East. You can certainly make an argument that adding Jimmy pushes them past Cleveland into the Finals.

And it's not like the Celtics have forever to keep waiting to make a big move - Thomas turns 28 next week, and Horford will be 31 this summer. By the time the Brooklyn picks are ready to be major contributors, their 2 best players will be on the downside of their careers.

If Celtics do trade Butler, ECF is lock between Boston and Cavs. Toronto are no match for these teams. I would even dare say Cavs might be the underdogs since they arent playing that well and Lebron seems to be kind of slowly falling off. At least it's a 50/50 chance to win ECF for Boston.

[DroseReturnChi]

One of the main reasons to trade Butler is to diversify our risks. We have only good asset in Butler and if he goes down like Rose this Bulls team is done for the next decade. There is also a chance Butler runs away from the Bulls after his contract ends for LA. Fultz/DSJ are sure prospects and their potential/ ceiling will be as high as Butler. I mean Giannis is already making Butler kind of weak and he's like only 22?

You don't have to worry about Jimmy leaving in free agency. That's still 3 years away, and the Bulls, I believe, still have the option of signing him to a Demarcus Cousins type extension in the off-season that he would be a fool not to sign.

Problem is Butler is a disgruntled star and the FO is kind of the worst fit to be honest. I heard there were even reports saying Butler wants out of this team with Wade. Trading him completely eliminates that small 1% risk of Bulls losing him for nothing.

[ArizonaBullsFan]

Does anyone think Wade wants to be here if Jimmy is traded? Would he agree to decline his player option for next year if he agree to cut him so he can sign with his boy LeBron? Can he even do that?

I do know that a few years back, Dwight Howard agreed to pick up his player option for the next season so that Orlando would agree to not trade him at the deadline, but I don't know if it works the other way or not?

[TheSuzerain]

Does anyone think Wade wants to be here if Jimmy is traded? Would he agree to decline his player option for next year if he agree to cut him so he can sign with his boy LeBron? Can he even do that?

I do know that a few years back, Dwight Howard agreed to pick up his player option for the next season so that Orlando would agree to not trade him at the deadline, but I don't know if it works the other way or not?

What you described isn't going to happen.

But I think everyone expects Wade to decline his option if Jimmy is dealt.

[DASMACKDOWN]

If we made any of those trades, prepare for this board to be a ghost town when we suck.

[DroseReturnChi]

Hmmm. I think Butler + Taj for Brown + Amir (filler) + Jerebko (filler) works. Add in the Brooklyn picks and away we go.

+1. We take Boston's somewhat bad contract and give them a solid rotation guy in Taj to get the additional 18' BKN pick. Sounds legit.

[TheStig]

I was open to trading Butler in the offseason but I think he's reached the point that only drafting a guy like Curry, Durant, Bron or a top 5 player could make it worth it. I just don't see that coming. It's not even like any of the Celtics picks are gaurnteed to be top 3. I just don't see a deal that could be done. Jimmy has elevated himself to top 10.

IMHO the FO needs to grow a pair and deal for a star who is available. Get me Milsap, Griffin or possibly Melo. They have Rondo, Mirotic and picks to make it happen.

I just can't see any of those picks realistically being better than Jimmy. When he was top 20 last year, maybe. But not top 10 Jimmy in his prime. Get him some help and you can conceivable make the ECF. it's pretty open.

[DroseReturnChi]

If we made any of those trades, prepare for this board to be a ghost town when we suck.

Def more fun watching 3-5 super prospects developing. Actually this year has not been entertaining to me and the team gives no hope of winning a championship. Only reason I often watch is bc of Valentine and Zipser. As long as they play well, idc if we lose or win that much.

[RedBulls23]

If I'm the Celtics, I don't include Crowder. You still been him to be the 3D wing that can play off Jimmy and IT. Also, he can defend Lebron.