Official Trade Thread - Part XXXII

[nate33]

Do Not Trade Anyone!!!

20-7 since December 5, equivalent to 60-21 pace.

Stop hating. Nicholson has a great post game and he can hit threes.Burke is filling in decently. Sato is going to blow up really soon. Smith is a very good role player.

This team is REAL GOOD!

Mahinmi might eventually play before March.

This COULD BE the second best team in the east. One Lebron injury away from NBA Finals this damn season.

It is what it is .... A new day. This team arrived and is ...IMPROVING!

I like McClellan, Ochefu, and House, too.

Keep THIS CHEMISTRY/ENERGY together.

Nicholson is hot buttered trash. He's literally the slowest non-center in the league. A 6-9 235 guy with a post game is a dinosaur in today's NBA. Unfortunately I think were stuck with him for now because I'd hate to use a 1st to get rid of him.

Ochefu & House don't belong on an NBA roster. You can like them all you want, it doesn't make them valuable or any good.

We have 6 legitimate rotation players at the moment and 3 guys playing like all-stars or near all-stars. That's why were having the success were having. It would be nice to get them some help but I don't want to throw away 1st round picks like candy either.

I'd consider Jason Smith a legitimate rotation player as well. He's not a 6th man, but he's a legit 9th/10th man. I don't cringe when I see him on the court. He does his job pretty well - hits open shots, makes effective rotations on defense.

[nate33]

If we stay as we are--we could easily lose to anyone we face in the first round.

That's true. However, no matter what trades we make, we will surely lose the Conference Finals. So with that in mind, I'd rather keep the pick and build for the next 2 seasons.

[pcbothwel]

Do Not Trade Anyone!!!

20-7 since December 5, equivalent to 60-21 pace.

Stop hating. Nicholson has a great post game and he can hit threes.Burke is filling in decently. Sato is going to blow up really soon. Smith is a very good role player.

This team is REAL GOOD!

Mahinmi might eventually play before March.

This COULD BE the second best team in the east. One Lebron injury away from NBA Finals this damn season.

It is what it is .... A new day. This team arrived and is ...IMPROVING!

I like McClellan, Ochefu, and House, too.

Keep THIS CHEMISTRY/ENERGY together.

Nicholson is hot buttered trash. He's literally the slowest non-center in the league. A 6-9 235 guy with a post game is a dinosaur in today's NBA. Unfortunately I think were stuck with him for now because I'd hate to use a 1st to get rid of him.

Ochefu & House don't belong on an NBA roster. You can like them all you want, it doesn't make them valuable or any good.

We have 6 legitimate rotation players at the moment and 3 guys playing like all-stars or near all-stars. That's why were having the success were having. It would be nice to get them some help but I don't want to throw away 1st round picks like candy either.

Dat, CCJ may have been a little overzealous... but I think you are selling us short. We CLEARLY have 6 rotational players, but we would definitely have 7 if Mahinmi was healthy. Even if he played closer to his career average and not as good as last year he would be a high level backup. I know he is hurt, but you cant take him out of that calculation when looking at the roster of "Players deemed good enough to be rotation worthy"

So thats 7, which then brings us to Satoransky. The highly regarded 25 y/o PG that played at an Extremely high level overseas with NBA athleticism, so he has the pedigree... but how about his production.
We all know he started off slow, but since he didnt play for 15 days to start the new year he has come back a better player.
In his 8 games in January (All in the last two weeks) he is averaging a per 36 of 10/7/3.5 with a ORtg/DRtg of 128/104. RPM now has him at -1.19... with Devin Booker, Will Barton, etc.

It's a small sample size, but I think Brooks is getting Burke in with Wall and Sato in with Beal a little more which allows Burke to shoot 3's and Sato to rebound, play d, and distribute.
I'd say Sato is starting to show himself as a rotation worthy guard.

So that puts us at 8 players and that doesnt include McClellan who has a ORtg/DRtg of 113/110 despite only shooting 23% from 3. I think having 8 rotational players (5 starters, backup G, backup Wing, backup Big) is pretty standard for a competitive team

[Dark Faze]

If we stay as we are--we could easily lose to anyone we face in the first round.

That's true. However, no matter what trades we make, we will surely lose the Conference Finals. So with that in mind, I'd rather keep the pick and build for the next 2 seasons.

I'd like to keep the pick too. I'd give up a low protection pick next year in order to keep our pick this year AND acquire great bench assets. I think that's a fair trade off. We can afford to go purely based on best player available with our pick this year too if we get the added bench assets.

If we keep the pick without making any moves then we're probably going to end up going for need instead of BPA, which can be a bad spot to be in picking in the later part of the first round, particularly with Ernie's track record.

[nate33]

If we stay as we are--we could easily lose to anyone we face in the first round.

That's true. However, no matter what trades we make, we will surely lose the Conference Finals. So with that in mind, I'd rather keep the pick and build for the next 2 seasons.

I'd like to keep the pick too. I'd give up a low protection pick next year in order to keep our pick this year AND acquire great bench assets. I think that's a fair trade off. We can afford to go purely based on best player available with our pick this year too if we get the added bench assets.

If we keep the pick without making any moves then we're probably going to end up going for need instead of BPA, which can be a bad spot to be in picking in the later part of the first round, particularly with Ernie's track record.

Yeah, I'd be willing to package our 2018 pick plus a filler contract to get us a 6th man caliber player. It's going to be a good 3 years before our 2018 pick is sufficiently developed to help us win games. By 2020, Gortat will be over the hill.

The problem is, our filler contracts have such negative value. I just hate to package the pick with Nicholson's horribly negative value contract because it takes away from the trade value of the pick. The 2018 plus an expiring contract might get us a pretty good player. The 2018 pick plus Nicholson probably only gets us a 7th/8th man caliber player. It might be better to be patient and keep the pick. I know the timing sucks vis-a-vis Gortat, but maybe we'll end up with the next Rudy Gobert or Clint Capella if we use the pick ourselves.

[NatP4]

That's true. However, no matter what trades we make, we will surely lose the Conference Finals. So with that in mind, I'd rather keep the pick and build for the next 2 seasons.

I'd like to keep the pick too. I'd give up a low protection pick next year in order to keep our pick this year AND acquire great bench assets. I think that's a fair trade off. We can afford to go purely based on best player available with our pick this year too if we get the added bench assets.

If we keep the pick without making any moves then we're probably going to end up going for need instead of BPA, which can be a bad spot to be in picking in the later part of the first round, particularly with Ernie's track record.

Yeah, I'd be willing to package our 2018 pick plus a filler contract to get us a 6th man caliber player. It's going to be a good 3 years before our 2018 pick is sufficiently developed to help us win games. By 2020, Gortat will be over the hill.

The problem is, our filler contracts have such negative value. I just hate to package the pick with Nicholson's horribly negative value contract because it takes away from the trade value of the pick. The 2018 plus an expiring contract might get us a pretty good player. The 2018 pick plus Nicholson probably only gets us a 7th/8th man caliber player. It might be better to be patient and keep the pick. I know the timing sucks vis-a-vis Gortat, but maybe we'll end up with the next Rudy Gobert or Clint Capella if we use the pick ourselves.

We could easily move our 2018 1st plus Nicholson for Lou Williams or Will Barton.

IMO, a 6th man scorer that only plays one end and chucks up shots on offense doesn't really make much of an impact in the playoffs, but a wing player that can score some but also slide over to the 3 so we can play to our strengths more(small ball Otto), different story.

2 way Wing scorer>Lou Williams

[Dark Faze]

I'd like to keep the pick too. I'd give up a low protection pick next year in order to keep our pick this year AND acquire great bench assets. I think that's a fair trade off. We can afford to go purely based on best player available with our pick this year too if we get the added bench assets.

If we keep the pick without making any moves then we're probably going to end up going for need instead of BPA, which can be a bad spot to be in picking in the later part of the first round, particularly with Ernie's track record.

Yeah, I'd be willing to package our 2018 pick plus a filler contract to get us a 6th man caliber player. It's going to be a good 3 years before our 2018 pick is sufficiently developed to help us win games. By 2020, Gortat will be over the hill.

The problem is, our filler contracts have such negative value. I just hate to package the pick with Nicholson's horribly negative value contract because it takes away from the trade value of the pick. The 2018 plus an expiring contract might get us a pretty good player. The 2018 pick plus Nicholson probably only gets us a 7th/8th man caliber player. It might be better to be patient and keep the pick. I know the timing sucks vis-a-vis Gortat, but maybe we'll end up with the next Rudy Gobert or Clint Capella if we use the pick ourselves.

We could easily move our 2018 1st plus Nicholson for Lou Williams or Will Barton.

IMO, a 6th man scorer that only plays one end and chucks up shots on offense doesn't really make much of an impact in the playoffs, but a wing player that can score some but also slide over to the 3 so we can play to our strengths more(small ball Otto), different story.

2 way Wing scorer>Lou Williams

It's why I'm targeting Young and Lou. I want both guys. Neither have much upside left at their age so it's a matter of the Lakers moving bench talent for youth--and the best players in this draft are guards.

If we're talking about only acquiring ONE player, then I agree I'd rather try to get the best possible two way player I can get. But I want two guys if I can get them. I might be willing to do 2018 1st and a second to get it done.

Either way even if its not with the Lakers I'd like to get two guys, even if they aren't as good as Nick and Lou.

[NatP4]

Yeah, I'd be willing to package our 2018 pick plus a filler contract to get us a 6th man caliber player. It's going to be a good 3 years before our 2018 pick is sufficiently developed to help us win games. By 2020, Gortat will be over the hill.

The problem is, our filler contracts have such negative value. I just hate to package the pick with Nicholson's horribly negative value contract because it takes away from the trade value of the pick. The 2018 plus an expiring contract might get us a pretty good player. The 2018 pick plus Nicholson probably only gets us a 7th/8th man caliber player. It might be better to be patient and keep the pick. I know the timing sucks vis-a-vis Gortat, but maybe we'll end up with the next Rudy Gobert or Clint Capella if we use the pick ourselves.

We could easily move our 2018 1st plus Nicholson for Lou Williams or Will Barton.

IMO, a 6th man scorer that only plays one end and chucks up shots on offense doesn't really make much of an impact in the playoffs, but a wing player that can score some but also slide over to the 3 so we can play to our strengths more(small ball Otto), different story.

2 way Wing scorer>Lou Williams

It's why I'm targeting Young and Lou. I want both guys. Neither have much upside left at their age so it's a matter of the Lakers moving bench talent for youth--and the best players in this draft are guards.

If we're talking about only acquiring ONE player, then I agree I'd rather try to get the best possible two way player I can get. But I want two guys if I can get them. I might be willing to do 2018 1st and a second to get it done.

Either way even if its not with the Lakers I'd like to get two guys, even if they aren't as good as Nick and Lou.

hadnt thought about it, but in theory, nick young is exactly the type of player I would like to acquire.

Satoransky-Swaggy P-Oubre

There's a dominant two way player side of nick young, that a playoff series and a serious winning environment can bring out of him.

[NatP4]

So apparently, even though it has been reported all over that we have interest in Serge Ibaka, J Michael says that the team isn't interested in trading any assets for a player that can walk after this year.

Good news. Sounds like our pick is as good as gone, but not for a rental atleast.

[Dark Faze]

If we could be guaranteed to get players like Ibaka and Millsap at reasonable salaries then I think we'd be in the running, but these guys are going to be getting 25+ million a season. That's just too much.

[gambitx777]

Well I wonder, if we could get him to sign a big extension. LIke say we talk him into staying for 4 years 84 mill with bonuses and such or what ever on an extension, dump nicholson somewhere and we will be in the sme cap situation we were in. So he is basically signing on for 2 years 42 mill and can walk when he is still 29 and spend two years on a championship caliber team in a weak east with an aging lebron.

[StupidDopeSTAR]

The Wiz are looking good. The Lou Williams thing somebody posted would be what we need but dont think we have anything LA would want and we don't have the Cap Space to absorb.

[nate33]

Well I wonder, if we could get him to sign a big extension. LIke say we talk him into staying for 4 years 84 mill with bonuses and such or what ever on an extension, dump nicholson somewhere and we will be in the sme cap situation we were in. So he is basically signing on for 2 years 42 mill and can walk when he is still 29 and spend two years on a championship caliber team in a weak east with an aging lebron.

We can't afford both Porter and Ibaka unless we jettison Nicholson, Mahinmi and Smith. And even then, we'd still face a long term cap crisis with 3 non-All-Star max players on the roster, plus Wall. At some point, we need to find players on bargain contracts. You do that through the draft, or by finding gems like Isaiah Thomas and Jae Crowder who are underappreciated at the time of acquisition. You can't chase established, well-known guys like Ibaka or Millsap.

We should probably look for well-developed junior and seniors in the draft - guys with perhaps limited upside, but are ready to contribute by their first or second season. Guys like Sam Decker, Justin Anderson and Larry Nance Jr. all went in the bottom 3rd of the 2015 class and are currently contributing more than Oubre. (I'm not complaining about the Oubre pick. At the time, it made sense to gamble on a younger guy with higher upside. I'm just saying that route might not make as much sense this time around.)

[gambitx777]

Well I wonder, if we could get him to sign a big extension. LIke say we talk him into staying for 4 years 84 mill with bonuses and such or what ever on an extension, dump nicholson somewhere and we will be in the sme cap situation we were in. So he is basically signing on for 2 years 42 mill and can walk when he is still 29 and spend two years on a championship caliber team in a weak east with an aging lebron.

We can't afford both Porter and Ibaka unless we jettison Nicholson, Mahinmi and Smith. And even then, we'd still face a long term cap crisis with 3 non-All-Star max players on the roster, plus Wall. At some point, we need to find players on bargain contracts. You do that through the draft, or by finding gems like Isaiah Thomas and Jae Crowder who are underappreciated at the time of acquisition. You can't chase established, well-known guys like Ibaka or Millsap.

We should probably look for well-developed junior and seniors in the draft - guys with perhaps limited upside, but are ready to contribute by their first or second season. Guys like Sam Decker, Justin Anderson and Larry Nance Jr. all went in the bottom 3rd of the 2015 class and are currently contributing more than Oubre. (I'm not complaining about the Oubre pick. At the time, it made sense to gamble on a younger guy with higher upside. I'm just saying that route might not make as much sense this time around.)

Well mahinmi would be going to orlando or a third team. Ibaka is not in anyway We would be sending out mahinmi and a first unprotected for ibaka. Now, like I said move nicholson which is very doable with some seconds attached. and at the money I mentioned we would be in the same cap situation that we are in right now. Mahinmi and Nicholson 15 plus 6 is 21. 84 mill 4 year extension is 21 mill a year. We can keep porter now, by matching a mas offer, yes we will be in the tax but we will be wining game.
Honestly I would rather call up detroit and offer hen nicholson and burke and a protected first for Morris and Ish Smith and call denver and offer them a first and mahinmi for Barton and nurkic . Adds some fire power to the bench and helps our cap situation with 4 young ish dudes on good deals. Saves us money next year too.

[payitforward]

...We have 6 legitimate rotation players at the moment and 3 guys playing like all-stars or near all-stars. That's why were having the success were having. It would be nice to get them some help but I don't want to throw away 1st round picks like candy either.

Do you mean a total of 6, of whom 3 are playing at a high level? Or a total of 9 -- 3 at a high level & 6 rotation players?

Right now, Wall, Gortat & Porter are playing at a high level. Gortat isn't quite where he was last year, mostly because his scoring is down -- but... a) his scoring efficiency is actually up from last year; in fact it's the highest it's ever been in his career, he's just shooting less than he did, and b) we don't seem to need him to shoot any more or score any more points than he's scoring.

Beal is about twice as good as he was last year -- and still only 23. He's significantly above average and getting better. Obviously, he's way way above average as a scorer. He's scoring more than 50% more than an average SG, and he's doing it at a TS% that's way better than an average SG! Fantastic.

Morris too is playing at an improved level, especially since the beginning of the year. And it's especially nice to see Satoransky starting to be so solid. Oubre too.

& Sheldon McClellan as well; he's been a nice surprise, & he really deserves more minutes. He looks like he'll have a solid NBA career; a journeyman career, but we need players like that. If you consider that we used no asset whatever to acquire him, & that we're paying him $550K, Ernie deserves kudos for picking him up.

That's 8 guys -- so, either 2 more than you had in mind, or else 1 fewer. Depending on what you meant above. Unless you want to include Jason Smith; certainly he's been solid lately, so maybe he should be included.

As to trading R1 picks, no. That's a fool's game as has been demonstrated over and over.

[gambitx777]

...We have 6 legitimate rotation players at the moment and 3 guys playing like all-stars or near all-stars. That's why were having the success were having. It would be nice to get them some help but I don't want to throw away 1st round picks like candy either.

Do you mean a total of 6, of whom 3 are playing at a high level? Or a total of 9 -- 3 at a high level & 6 rotation players?

Right now, Wall, Gortat & Porter are playing at a high level. Gortat isn't quite where he was last year, mostly because his scoring is down -- but... a) his scoring efficiency is actually up from last year; in fact it's the highest it's ever been in his career, he's just shooting less than he did, and b) we don't seem to need him to shoot any more or score any more points than he's scoring.

Beal is about twice as good as he was last year -- and still only 23. He's significantly above average and getting better. Obviously, he's way way above average as a scorer. He's scoring more than 50% more than an average SG, and he's doing it at a TS% that's way better than an average SG! Fantastic.

Morris too is playing at an improved level, especially since the beginning of the year. And it's especially nice to see Satoransky starting to be so solid. Oubre too.

& Sheldon McClellan as well; he's been a nice surprise, & he really deserves more minutes. He looks like he'll have a solid NBA career; a journeyman career, but we need players like that. If you consider that we used no asset whatever to acquire him, & that we're paying him $550K, Ernie deserves kudos for picking him up.

That's 8 guys -- so, either 2 more than you had in mind, or else 1 fewer. Depending on what you meant above. Unless you want to include Jason Smith; certainly he's been solid lately, so maybe he should be included.

As to trading R1 picks, no. That's a fool's game as has been demonstrated over and over.

I mean, at what point do we praise the team, do we have to acknowledge that we got here by trading picks? Yes he hit on Wall beal and Porter, Top 3 picks that were hard to miss on. EG has missed on most of his non top 3 picks. We got lucky with Kelley and he traded two seconds to pick tomas, we traded into Gortat and Morris and who knows who he would have picked with those. I'm all for keeping seconds I am but at what point do you say, dumping bad deals and adding a solid bench piece or two, for depth is better than EG picking in the late teens early 20's.

[payitforward]

That's true. However, no matter what trades we make, we will surely lose the Conference Finals. So with that in mind, I'd rather keep the pick and build for the next 2 seasons.

I'd like to keep the pick too. I'd give up a low protection pick next year in order to keep our pick this year AND acquire great bench assets. I think that's a fair trade off. We can afford to go purely based on best player available with our pick this year too if we get the added bench assets.

If we keep the pick without making any moves then we're probably going to end up going for need instead of BPA, which can be a bad spot to be in picking in the later part of the first round, particularly with Ernie's track record.

Yeah, I'd be willing to package our 2018 pick plus a filler contract to get us a 6th man caliber player. It's going to be a good 3 years before our 2018 pick is sufficiently developed to help us win games. By 2020, Gortat will be over the hill.

The problem is, our filler contracts have such negative value. I just hate to package the pick with Nicholson's horribly negative value contract because it takes away from the trade value of the pick. The 2018 plus an expiring contract might get us a pretty good player. The 2018 pick plus Nicholson probably only gets us a 7th/8th man caliber player. It might be better to be patient and keep the pick. I know the timing sucks vis-a-vis Gortat, but maybe we'll end up with the next Rudy Gobert or Clint Capella if we use the pick ourselves.

I was going to point out that Gortat being over the hill by 2020 is a reason to keep the 2018 pick, not a reason to trade it, but in fact you go on to make the point yourself (i.e. "the next Gobert or Capella").

I'd trade away the future for a legitimate chance to win a title now -- of course! Even to win the EC. But despite our recent success I hope no one has bought that!

[nate33]

Well mahinmi would be going to orlando or a third team. Ibaka is not in anyway We would be sending out mahinmi and a first unprotected for ibaka. Now, like I said move nicholson which is very doable with some seconds attached. and at the money I mentioned we would be in the same cap situation that we are in right now. Mahinmi and Nicholson 15 plus 6 is 21. 84 mill 4 year extension is 21 mill a year. We can keep porter now, by matching a mas offer, yes we will be in the tax but we will be wining game.
Honestly I would rather call up detroit and offer hen nicholson and burke and a protected first for Morris and Ish Smith and call denver and offer them a first and mahinmi for Barton and nurkic . Adds some fire power to the bench and helps our cap situation with 4 young ish dudes on good deals. Saves us money next year too.

We're not getting Barton and Nurkic for Mahinmi and a pick. If that was on the table, I'd do it in a heartbeat. I don't think you understand how negatively Mahinmi is valued right now. I don't think we could trade Mahinmi and a 1st for an expiring contract.

[payitforward]

We could easily move our 2018 1st plus Nicholson for Lou Williams or Will Barton. ...

It's why I'm targeting Young and Lou. I want both guys. ... I might be willing to do 2018 1st and a second to get it done...

...nick young is exactly the type of player I would like to acquire. ...There's a dominant two way player side of nick young, that a playoff series and a serious winning environment can bring out of him.

Holy Moly!! You two guys are scaring me!

First off, if we make a trade based only on getting better this season, it's a fail trade. We aren't going to contend for a ring b/c we add players like this. In fact, unless a team is demonstrably, legitimately, one player away from going after a ring, a trade like you suggest is always a mistake, for any team.

Williams, Barton & Young are all FAs after next season. Trading a R1 pick for any of them means giving up the chance to acquire a talented young player whom we control for 4 or more years on a rookie contract.

As well, none of those 3 has any upside left. As to the "dominant two way player" hiding in Nick Young... it's hard to know how to respond. Saying something with a lot of conviction doesn't make it true, you know.

None of those players would do enough to warrant giving away the future for him. All these trade ideas are really really bad trade ideas.

[payitforward]

The Wiz are looking good. The Lou Williams thing somebody posted would be what we need but dont think we have anything LA would want and we don't have the Cap Space to absorb.

Welcome SDSTAR -- glad to have you here!