Butler trade rumor - KC Johnson update: pg 63

[kulaz3000]

If we trade Jimmy, it's going to be such a painful 5 years, even if one of the draft picks next season becomes a superstar. We just make a team in our conference so much stronger if we deal with the Celtics. And with the Cavs still having a handful of years of success being likely, we probably wouldn't have built a team, and the young stars (if the rookies end up being stars), and for them to mature into playoff winning players, we are looking at the playoffs in the 4th or 5th year at best, because our team would be mostly young players and trash.

It scares me because we've been there, and could very well still be there if we didn't totally luck out on Derrick. And by be there, meaning a crappy team with no real optimism of getting ourselves out.

[Patsfan1081]

Draft pick are the most overrate asset in NBA, the odd is ALWAYS against you.

I use random number generate program to choose the top 3 pick between 1980-2016
the result are

2nd pick 1989 - Danny Ferry (who?)
1st pick 1995 - Joe Smith (meh)
3rd pick 1989 - Sean Elliott (1989 again? but not that bad, still isn't worth Jimmy)
2nd pick 1980 - Darrell Griffith (between all-star Joe Barry Carroll and HOF Machale, YOU give me Darrell Griffith?!)
2nd pick 1988 - Rik Smits (meh)
3rd pick 1994 - Grant Hill (finally a player worth trading Jimmy for)
3rd pick 2012 - Bradley Beal (decent but not worth Jimmy)
2nd pick 1997 - Keith Van Horn (between Duncan at 1st and Billups at 3rd, I get Keith Van f**king Horn)
1st pick 2000 - Kenyon Martin (meh)
3rd pick 2015 - Jahlil Okafor (plz kill me)

Ever with ALL 3 of Nets picks, the odd of getting player better than Jimmy is slim.

It's very rare for the team trading the star to win the trade in the long run, that's why teams don't trade away stars unless they are forced to. Yet every draft is different and you hope that getting multiple picks or players that the sum of the return equates or is better than the one piece going out. I mean the hype behind and current production of Ball/Fultz is much greater than that of Van Horn or Beal at the time, scouts have a difficult time finding any holes in Fultz's game. So even if Fultz doesn't turn out to be as great as Butler you would hope that Fultz plus the production of who you get with the 18 pick and other over what you currently have is greater than what Butler would have given in the long run. Plus the fact your increasing your own draft stock by rebuilding.

[Red Larrivee]

If we trade Jimmy, it's going to be such a painful 5 years, even if one of the draft picks next season becomes a superstar. We just make a team in our conference so much stronger if we deal with the Celtics. And with the Cavs still having a handful of years of success being likely, we probably wouldn't have built a team, and the young stars (if the rookies end up being stars), and for them to mature into playoff winning players, we are looking at the playoffs in the 4th or 5th year at best, because our team would be mostly young players and trash.

It scares me because we've been there, and could very well still be there if we didn't totally luck out on Derrick. And by be there, meaning a crappy team with no real optimism of getting ourselves out.

The thought of trading Butler is more interesting than the eight stages of hell that will come after the trade (that we'll likely lose anyway).

[Ben]

Maybe, but Ainge has to pay a premium for getting another year of playoffs out of Butler.

If I can't get both BKN picks plus Zizic while adding Lopez for Johnson, then I wait to see what I can do in free agency this summer. If the Bulls can't add at least a Hayward or Lowry this summer, you can still get the deal you're proposing after free agency.

And I have zero interest in Brown, to me wing players who are lousy 3-point shooters don't have a whole lot of value, no matter how athletic they are.

Please post here more often.

How bout both of you post more

Good vibes goin' right back atcha.
But I'm in one of those "times of life"/ "times of career" places. You know the kind.
Following the games, checking for mod duties, but not able to contribute much to our conversations at present.
Thankful for those who're currently more active.
Go Bulls.

[Patsfan1081]

Maybe, but Ainge has to pay a premium for getting another year of playoffs out of Butler.

If I can't get both BKN picks plus Zizic while adding Lopez for Johnson, then I wait to see what I can do in free agency this summer. If the Bulls can't add at least a Hayward or Lowry this summer, you can still get the deal you're proposing after free agency.

And I have zero interest in Brown, to me wing players who are lousy 3-point shooters don't have a whole lot of value, no matter how athletic they are.

As a Celtic fan I would have no problem giving up both Brooklyn picks, Zizic(though I'm really high on the kid), or whatever. My actual concern was giving away both picks plus Brown, I actually love the kid and believe he could shoot at the average from three. He's at 31% for the season yet is streaky within the limited minutes he played. What I haven't seen discussed at all among the boards is getting another team involved. I'm not sure if the Bulls would be looking at a full rebuild or not if they moved on from Butler but let's say if they wanted another good pick or young player then why not flip say Crowder to another team, he may not fit the Bulls plan but he does have pretty good value and could most likely yield a good return.

You might want to talk sense on you boy Ainge... Not only Bulls fans but more importantly Bulls management would rather both BK picks and if Ainge offered it Jimmy would be a Celtic right now....

Ainge is just too greedy it seems. I think Ainge could get Butler and Lopez and be right there with Cleveland

Well Ainge always wants to win trades and from what I hear the Bulls don't really do many trades but you would think that the they would be one of few fits. I still wonder what the exact offers were from the last draft. Any other team team that wants Butler will most likely make their own picks much less valuable by aquiring Jimmy and winning more games. Philly has the Lakers pick and the Kings pick next year but at the moment L.A. second to last and there's a great chance their pick doesn't transfer.

[DaBulls82]

If we trade Jimmy, it's going to be such a painful 5 years, even if one of the draft picks next season becomes a superstar. We just make a team in our conference so much stronger if we deal with the Celtics. And with the Cavs still having a handful of years of success being likely, we probably wouldn't have built a team, and the young stars (if the rookies end up being stars), and for them to mature into playoff winning players, we are looking at the playoffs in the 4th or 5th year at best, because our team would be mostly young players and trash.

It scares me because we've been there, and could very well still be there if we didn't totally luck out on Derrick. And by be there, meaning a crappy team with no real optimism of getting ourselves out.

I feel like the last 5 years have been painful. Chances are the next 5 will be as well. We have each other though.

[NecessaryEvil]

How about just fire the front office and let the new front office build around Jimmy? We should get rid of the problem, not the solution.


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exactly

Who wants to go through this dumb sh*t again? Waiting 5 years for kids to pan out? Waiting for Lebron to get old?

Tired of this crap. Be competitive. All this does is extend the life of a horribly ran front office. They know this which is why I wouldn't be surprised at all if it happens.

[Repeat 3-peat]

Didn't realize that the Nets pick is a "swap" pick.

Liked the thought of the Nets pick plus our own pick more...

[MrSparkle]

I'll say it again--

Celtics offer is fool's gold.

Jaylen Brown is a total unknown at this time. His numbers are ugly.

Bradley or Crowder are unnecessary because they're win-now players who'll be eligible for major extensions next summer.

An expiring contract is useless because the cap space is useless for a tank team.

It's a mediocre deal. If it's a draft day deal and we have the guy we really want with that BRK 1st, then fine... But like last year, I presume a team will prefer its pick over Butler if the prospect's that good.

Even then, in hindsight, Jimmy's looking better than Simmons and Ingram.

[ArizonaBullsFan]

Maybe, but Ainge has to pay a premium for getting another year of playoffs out of Butler.

If I can't get both BKN picks plus Zizic while adding Lopez for Johnson, then I wait to see what I can do in free agency this summer. If the Bulls can't add at least a Hayward or Lowry this summer, you can still get the deal you're proposing after free agency.

And I have zero interest in Brown, to me wing players who are lousy 3-point shooters don't have a whole lot of value, no matter how athletic they are.

Please post here more often.

How bout both of you post more

Thanks for the kind words guys, I truly appreciate it.

[Chi]

Me personally the only trade from Boston I would even consider (in a package that doesn't involve Isaiah that is) would be Crowder AND Bradley.

And at the end of the day I don't even think I would take that trade. And I pretty much know for a fact that Boston wouldn't either.

Therefore no deal... But that's just me though...

[ArizonaBullsFan]

I'll say it again--

Celtics offer is fool's gold.

Jaylen Brown is a total unknown at this time. His numbers are ugly.

Bradley or Crowder are unnecessary because they're win-now players who'll be eligible for major extensions next summer.

An expiring contract is useless because the cap space is useless for a tank team.

It's a mediocre deal. If it's a draft day deal and we have the guy we really want with that BRK 1st, then fine... But like last year, I presume a team will prefer its pick over Butler if the prospect's that good.

Even then, in hindsight, Jimmy's looking better than Simmons and Ingram.

Crowder is the only player I would consider from Boston's current roster, since he is signed for 3 more years after this season for less than the MLE - $6,796,117, $7,305,825 and $7,815,533. For a guy who plays defense like him AND is 5th in the league in 3pt% with that contract, he'd have huge trade value.

But I still don't do the deal without both BKN picks and unless they take Lopez for Johnson.

And cap space is far from useless for rebuilding teams, they routinely pick up draft picks for either eating contracts or facilitating trades for other teams.

And has already been pointed out, the reason Boston would rather have Butler than a prospect - no matter how good the prospect - is that Thomas is 28 next week and Horford 31 in June. They don't have time for a prospect to start playing at a championship level, their window is now (unless they want to wait 5 years and hope they hit on both BKN picks).

[ArizonaBullsFan]

Didn't realize that the Nets pick is a "swap" pick.

Liked the thought of the Nets pick plus our own pick more...

We wouldn't be swapping picks with the Nets, Boston would.

[Devinpo]

Man wouldn't it be great if the bulls actually drafted some talent to go with jimmy next season...

I really don't get how our scouting has been so bad the last few years. I hope we keep jimmy and hopefully draft actual talent with Athleticism!

It's crazy other than tony everyone we drafted can't jump over a piece of cardboard

[MisterRoy]

Over in Milwaukee tony looks like the 3 & d guy we are looking for.


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[bullslas]

The Lakers have some interest in Butler but nothing I want from them.

I really don't want to trade Butler, can't we make some trades and sign some free agents instead?

[Repeat 3-peat]

Didn't realize that the Nets pick is a "swap" pick.

Liked the thought of the Nets pick plus our own pick more...

We wouldn't be swapping picks with the Nets, Boston would.

But if we was to receive the Nets pick(s) if Butler was traded, we'd be doing the swapping.

[FecesOfDeath]

For all we know, Hoiberg may actually be a good coach, and after trading Jimmy for better-fitting pieces the Bulls become the 2011 Nuggets and still make the playoffs.

[Red8911]

If we trade Jimmy, it's going to be such a painful 5 years, even if one of the draft picks next season becomes a superstar. We just make a team in our conference so much stronger if we deal with the Celtics. And with the Cavs still having a handful of years of success being likely, we probably wouldn't have built a team, and the young stars (if the rookies end up being stars), and for them to mature into playoff winning players, we are looking at the playoffs in the 4th or 5th year at best, because our team would be mostly young players and trash.

It scares me because we've been there, and could very well still be there if we didn't totally luck out on Derrick. And by be there, meaning a crappy team with no real optimism of getting ourselves out.

I can't believe bulls fans actually want this to happen. On top of that most trade thoughts are ridiculous,NONE that I've read in here are fair for the bulls lol. They pretty much want to give him up for nothing for some reason. I don't understand why a re build is even being considered,last I checked the bulls are 7th in the east even though they been struggling. The more logical move would be to make trades(not Jimmy) to get better. This team isn't THAT bad,fans tend to over react and want to blow it up if they aren't favorites to win the championship. I doubt Jimmy will get traded now,that imo would happen in the summer IF the bulls fail horribly and not make the playoffs again. Until then though I still think this team can make a lil run and finish in the middle of the east,they arent too far now anyway.

[Red8911]

For all we know, Hoiberg may actually be a good coach, and after trading Jimmy for better-fitting pieces the Bulls become the 2011 Nuggets and still make the playoffs.

No fred is the reason we missed the playoffs last year and is responsible for the mess this year.