Okc fans are impatient?

Moderators: Dadouv47, retrobro90

OkcMagic
Junior
Posts: 429
And1: 159
Joined: Nov 26, 2013

Okc fans are impatient?  

Post#1 » by OkcMagic » Thu Feb 2, 2017 7:15 pm

When did nba fans become so impatient? Okc just lost a top 3 player and all you hear about is how the team suck, this player suck, that player suck... Meanwhile let's not remember that this team was built with Durant in mind. Or did you guys think Presti could have turned this whole team around in a short times notice? This season was to never compete. Once Durant left, that **** our whole season up. You have to give the team time to adjust and make moves go get players suited around Westbrook.

Take Houston for a minute, last year was atrocious for them. But this past offseaosn Morey went out and got players that compliment Harden very well and they been successful this season. Once Durant left and the season started, this season was always just a rebuild moment and see which players fit and which players don't.

Some have worked out(Oladipo, Grant, Sabonis, Abrines) and others have not unfortunately (Roberson, Payne has been bad, Kyle Singler, Black Kyle Singler) but that's just the name of the game. Expect Presti to be active around trade deadline time and more so at the draft. OKC fans need to be patient, we been spoiled the last 8 years and now we face the first hint of adversity and it's panic time all over. There was no player we could realistically get that would have made us into a contender. None at all. So stop with the meLo trades. MeLo is not a player we want or need considering every move presti makes is for the long term vision of the team. Hence why he traded Ersan for Grant. Also why he traded Ibaka for Oladipo and Sabonis. We have a very nice core with Westbrook, Oladipo,Adams, Sabonis,Grant,Abrines, and hopefully if last game was indication Huestis start to get more minutes. Now is the time we wait and let these players grow and improve. And by doing so, yes we will have games where we lose by 28 to bum ass teams but that's just some of the struggles you endure in a nba rebuild.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Kizz Fastfists
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,430
And1: 1,865
Joined: Jun 05, 2014
   

Re: Okc fans are impatient? 

Post#2 » by Kizz Fastfists » Thu Feb 2, 2017 8:03 pm

I don't think anyone is blaming Presti. Had he not gotten stabbed in the back in FA this team would be the best in the NBA, on paper. The problem is not only did he lose in FA, but then he overreacted and extended Oladipo and Adams early leaving no chance to add a player in FA. This leaves no chance to replace kd. That leaves the team stuck where it is as a fringe playoff team with no chance for improvement unless somehow Presti can land a player close to kd with a pick in the 18-22 range.

Houston is a terrible comparison. Houston had a LOT of cap space. The only way OKC gets cap space is if Kanter and Russ leave after next year. If they keep Russ they will never be able to add a significant FA unless you wait until 2021 with Oladipo and Adams coming off the books, but they will depend on how much Abrines and Sabonis got the previous off-season. If you are suggesting giving away Adams and Oladipo for cap space and draft picks that is one way to go. Just understand that those picks will need 3 years to develop just like kd and Russ did so you are wasting Russ' prime and hoping he'll stick around to be a fringe playoff team with a bunch of young players that may or may not ever be good enough to win with him.
"The secret to success is to offend the greatest number of people." -George Bernard Shaw
User avatar
bondom34
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 66,716
And1: 50,290
Joined: Mar 01, 2013

Re: Okc fans are impatient? 

Post#3 » by bondom34 » Thu Feb 2, 2017 9:04 pm

Houston's a fine comparison, they had some cap space, but were older and not as talented, with no real assets post T Mac/Yao.

There needs to be more patience.
MyUniBroDavis wrote: he was like YALL PEOPLE WHO DOUBT ME WILL SEE YALLS STATS ARE WRONG I HAVE THE BIG BRAIN PLAYS MUCHO NASTY BIG BRAIN BIG CHUNGUS BRAIN YOU BOYS ON UR BBALL REFERENCE NO UNDERSTANDO
User avatar
spearsy23
RealGM
Posts: 19,481
And1: 7,654
Joined: Jan 27, 2012
   

Re: Okc fans are impatient? 

Post#4 » by spearsy23 » Thu Feb 2, 2017 11:07 pm

He's had 5 years top build a competent bench and it's gotten worse every year. How much patience does it take before you're allowed to criticize the crap he has put together?

Nobody expected us to be competing for a championship, that's a strawman.
“If you're getting stops and you're making threes and the other team's not scoring, that's when you're going to see a huge point difference there,” coach Billy Donovan said.
User avatar
Pillendreher
RealGM
Posts: 14,191
And1: 9,953
Joined: Jan 25, 2015
 

Re: RE: Re: Okc fans are impatient? 

Post#5 » by Pillendreher » Thu Feb 2, 2017 11:24 pm

spearsy23 wrote:He's had 5 years top build a competent bench and it's gotten worse every year. How much patience does it take before you're allowed to criticize the crap he has put together?

Nobody expected us to be competing for a championship, that's a strawman.

Thank you.
"I don't know of any player that, when the shot goes up, he doesn't want it to go in," Donovan said
Kizz Fastfists
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,430
And1: 1,865
Joined: Jun 05, 2014
   

Re: Okc fans are impatient? 

Post#6 » by Kizz Fastfists » Thu Feb 2, 2017 11:36 pm

bondom34 wrote:Houston's a fine comparison, they had some cap space, but were older and not as talented, with no real assets post T Mac/Yao.

There needs to be more patience.


This is Harden's FIFTH year in Houston. If we count this as year one and it takes Presti FIVE years to get a supporting cast around Russ then Russ will be 32 and in decline. That will be a 1-2 year "window". Houston still isn't a contender despite their massive improvement in their supporting cast by adding Ryan Anderson and Eric Gordon for more than what a max player would have cost. They still had the cap room after that to extend Harden.

When does OKC have that type of money available to spend like Houston did? Only after they get rid of three of Russ, Oladipo, Adams and Kanter. There is no comparison. Houston had to wait for the Howard contract to drop off to spend money, but that was going to happen during Harden's prime. OKC has to wait for Oladipo, Adams and Kanter to come off the books to be in that situation to put different players around Russ. That doesn't happen until Russ is 33!

Houston wasn't old. Ariza was the only significant player that was 30 last year. They went out and got a pair of 28 year olds to push them forward. They surrounded Harden with players of similar age and at a similar point in their careers. Presti keeps bringing in 24/25 year olds that other teams have given up on because they suck, i.e. Waiters. Presti also keeps collecting players that fill a small role on a roster and not providing players that can player bigger roles, i.e. Huestis, Kanter, Roberson, Morrow and other situational usage players.
"The secret to success is to offend the greatest number of people." -George Bernard Shaw
User avatar
bondom34
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 66,716
And1: 50,290
Joined: Mar 01, 2013

Re: Okc fans are impatient? 

Post#7 » by bondom34 » Fri Feb 3, 2017 1:06 am

Kizz Fastfists wrote:
bondom34 wrote:Houston's a fine comparison, they had some cap space, but were older and not as talented, with no real assets post T Mac/Yao.

There needs to be more patience.


This is Harden's FIFTH year in Houston. If we count this as year one and it takes Presti FIVE years to get a supporting cast around Russ then Russ will be 32 and in decline. That will be a 1-2 year "window". Houston still isn't a contender despite their massive improvement in their supporting cast by adding Ryan Anderson and Eric Gordon for more than what a max player would have cost. They still had the cap room after that to extend Harden.

When does OKC have that type of money available to spend like Houston did? Only after they get rid of three of Russ, Oladipo, Adams and Kanter. There is no comparison. Houston had to wait for the Howard contract to drop off to spend money, but that was going to happen during Harden's prime. OKC has to wait for Oladipo, Adams and Kanter to come off the books to be in that situation to put different players around Russ. That doesn't happen until Russ is 33!

Houston wasn't old. Ariza was the only significant player that was 30 last year. They went out and got a pair of 28 year olds to push them forward. They surrounded Harden with players of similar age and at a similar point in their careers. Presti keeps bringing in 24/25 year olds that other teams have given up on because they suck, i.e. Waiters. Presti also keeps collecting players that fill a small role on a roster and not providing players that can player bigger roles, i.e. Huestis, Kanter, Roberson, Morrow and other situational usage players.

It won't take FIVE years, but it will take a few. And Houston was old relative to this roster. They had no youth like this team does, and they're certainly a contender now. If you don't think they are then you'll be rooting for a non contender the remainder of your life. OKC currently has a bunch of youth on solid contracts that's tradeable for good assets that Houston didn't have. Most teams would kill for this roster, the bench sucks but the core is solid.
MyUniBroDavis wrote: he was like YALL PEOPLE WHO DOUBT ME WILL SEE YALLS STATS ARE WRONG I HAVE THE BIG BRAIN PLAYS MUCHO NASTY BIG BRAIN BIG CHUNGUS BRAIN YOU BOYS ON UR BBALL REFERENCE NO UNDERSTANDO
User avatar
bondom34
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 66,716
And1: 50,290
Joined: Mar 01, 2013

Re: Okc fans are impatient? 

Post#8 » by bondom34 » Fri Feb 3, 2017 1:11 am

And yeah fans are impatient. Sorry but this team isn't last year's team at all and was half deconstructed before cupcake left. You could take back Serge if you want and they're in the same spot. It's because a freakin HOF'er left them. They're going to likely win around 45 games, get in the playoffs despite many thinking otherwise, and have to tweak the roster this offseason and/or deadline. The best comp for Russ I've seen playstyle wise is Wade, and Wade was 28 in 2010. He's still an above average player now and had about 5 prime years left then. Same for Kobe, at 28 his team was eliminated in round 1 of the postseason and he was complaining.


Everyone think like Aaron Rodgers. R-E-L-A-X
MyUniBroDavis wrote: he was like YALL PEOPLE WHO DOUBT ME WILL SEE YALLS STATS ARE WRONG I HAVE THE BIG BRAIN PLAYS MUCHO NASTY BIG BRAIN BIG CHUNGUS BRAIN YOU BOYS ON UR BBALL REFERENCE NO UNDERSTANDO
User avatar
Old Man Game
Head Coach
Posts: 6,281
And1: 4,317
Joined: Jul 15, 2012

Re: Okc fans are impatient?  

Post#9 » by Old Man Game » Fri Feb 3, 2017 5:35 am

I sincerely believe big picture we should think about blowing it up and rebuilding through the draft. That is typically a 4 to six year process. It may be rash but it's not impatient. It's all kinds of patient.

Sent from my KFFOWI using RealGM mobile app
User avatar
spearsy23
RealGM
Posts: 19,481
And1: 7,654
Joined: Jan 27, 2012
   

Re: Okc fans are impatient? 

Post#10 » by spearsy23 » Fri Feb 3, 2017 6:22 am

bondom34 wrote:And yeah fans are impatient. Sorry but this team isn't last year's team at all and was half deconstructed before cupcake left. You could take back Serge if you want and they're in the same spot. It's because a freakin HOF'er left them. They're going to likely win around 45 games, get in the playoffs despite many thinking otherwise, and have to tweak the roster this offseason and/or deadline. The best comp for Russ I've seen playstyle wise is Wade, and Wade was 28 in 2010. He's still an above average player now and had about 5 prime years left then. Same for Kobe, at 28 his team was eliminated in round 1 of the postseason and he was complaining.


Everyone think like Aaron Rodgers. R-E-L-A-X

Wade did not have 5 prime years left. By 31 he was dealing with injury issues yearly and having to rest. If we add a LeBron level player then that's fine but Russ won't be able to single handedly make us competitive for more than a few years after this one. And wade is a much more skilled player than Russ.
“If you're getting stops and you're making threes and the other team's not scoring, that's when you're going to see a huge point difference there,” coach Billy Donovan said.
User avatar
Osirus89
Starter
Posts: 2,148
And1: 2,017
Joined: Nov 23, 2016
   

Re: Okc fans are impatient? 

Post#11 » by Osirus89 » Fri Feb 3, 2017 6:44 am

spearsy23 wrote:He's had 5 years top build a competent bench and it's gotten worse every year. How much patience does it take before you're allowed to criticize the crap he has put together?

Nobody expected us to be competing for a championship, that's a strawman.


This. This is not the first year that we have had some of these players that have been horrible. Kyle Singler got that 5 year deal and I didn't think he was any good when he came in the trade. Andre has been limited since he came to the Thunder and hasn't improved his game much. I also remember people talking about warning signs regarding him like his ft shooting in college and bad shot mechanics. We took McGary who was a bust and Huestis who they won't play for whatever reason in a draft we could have easily taken Rodney hood. It would have been a homerun if Kristaps had not pulled out of that draft and we got him, but it didn't turn out that way. The list goes on (caron butler, ronny brewer, perry jones) It's been a parade of mediocrity surrounding the stars for the past few years. This is the best supporting cast the Thunder has had in years, and the sad part is Domas and Abrines are ROOKIES. That's for better or worse most of the reason Durant left in the first place. The biggest reason that he left is that we had Harden and let him go to save some money. Now we are finally suffering the consequences.

I want to be patient, but Russ doesn't have as much time left as we would like at this level. Especially the way that he plays. The problem for Russ is that he is too proud to admit that he needs help and refuses to go to the media to make a big deal about it. Lebron got criticized for doing it, but it did put pressure on the Cavs office to do something. Kobe got Pau because of his constant grumbling. I'm not saying for russ to throw his team under the bus, but it wouldn't hurt for him to be a bit more direct that this team needs more. If Presti goes out and gets Wilson Chandler or some trade to get even a small bit of help, I won't be on his case as much. However, if the trade deadline passes and nothing is done, he needs to be held to the fire. Not helping a team that could be teetering on not making the playoffs if they hit a bad stretch is just being negligent and irresponsible.

I feel like Russ will just suffer in silence because Durant leaving pissed him off, and he doesn't want to give Durant the satisfaction that losing him hurt the team as much as it did.
Remember this:
Read on Twitter
User avatar
bondom34
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 66,716
And1: 50,290
Joined: Mar 01, 2013

Re: Okc fans are impatient? 

Post#12 » by bondom34 » Fri Feb 3, 2017 7:30 am

Old Man Game wrote:I sincerely believe big picture we should think about blowing it up and rebuilding through the draft. That is typically a 4 to six year process. It may be rash but it's not impatient. It's all kinds of patient.

Sent from my KFFOWI using RealGM mobile app

Its much more than that.

Look at the teams building through the draft for 4-6 years. It's taking over 10. And it's easier to make incremental moves.

spearsy23 wrote:
bondom34 wrote:And yeah fans are impatient. Sorry but this team isn't last year's team at all and was half deconstructed before cupcake left. You could take back Serge if you want and they're in the same spot. It's because a freakin HOF'er left them. They're going to likely win around 45 games, get in the playoffs despite many thinking otherwise, and have to tweak the roster this offseason and/or deadline. The best comp for Russ I've seen playstyle wise is Wade, and Wade was 28 in 2010. He's still an above average player now and had about 5 prime years left then. Same for Kobe, at 28 his team was eliminated in round 1 of the postseason and he was complaining.


Everyone think like Aaron Rodgers. R-E-L-A-X

Wade did not have 5 prime years left. By 31 he was dealing with injury issues yearly and having to rest. If we add a LeBron level player then that's fine but Russ won't be able to single handedly make us competitive for more than a few years after this one. And wade is a much more skilled player than Russ.


Not peak, but prime. He was still very good.
MyUniBroDavis wrote: he was like YALL PEOPLE WHO DOUBT ME WILL SEE YALLS STATS ARE WRONG I HAVE THE BIG BRAIN PLAYS MUCHO NASTY BIG BRAIN BIG CHUNGUS BRAIN YOU BOYS ON UR BBALL REFERENCE NO UNDERSTANDO
User avatar
spearsy23
RealGM
Posts: 19,481
And1: 7,654
Joined: Jan 27, 2012
   

Re: Okc fans are impatient? 

Post#13 » by spearsy23 » Fri Feb 3, 2017 8:30 am

Started this project, I realize it's not a great way to rank benches but it's just kinda for fun and to see if my perception matches with reality.

Here are main bench players ranked by RPM, I tried to include the position they were actually being played at as well.
Depth charts are taken from ESPN so unless I knew off the top of my head they were wrong there may be a few guys who aren't actually in the rotations.

OKC
Cam- 58th
Abrines- 78th
Grant- 77th
Kanter- 41st
Lauvergne- 61st among centers, would be 76th among power forwards
average adjusted for position- 63rd

Atlanta
Delaney- 55th
Hardaway Jr- 23rd
Dunleavey- 53nd among sg, would be 44th among SF's
Muscala- 31st
Humphries- 67th among pf, would be 56th among centers
average adjusted for position-44th

Boston
Smart- 18th
Rozier- 41st among pg, would be 64th among sg's
Brown- 72nd
Jerebko- 43rd
Olynyk- 20th
average adjusted for position- 43rd

Brooklyn
Whitehead- 74th
LeVert- 35th
RHJ- 60th
McCullough- 63rd
Scola- 42nd among pf, would be 40th among C
average adjusted for position- 55th

Charlotte
Sessions- 66th
Lamb- 59th
Bellinelli- 57th among SG, would be 50th among SF
Kaminsky- 36th among C, would be 39th among PF
Plumlee- 47th
average adjusted for position- 52nd

Chicago
Rondo- 54th
MCW- 62nd among pg, would be 78th among SG
Mcdermott- 71st
Mirotic- 26th
Felicio-37th among PF, would be 36th among C
average adjusted for position- 53rd

Cleveland
Felder- 72nd
Shumpert- 29th
Korver- 89th among SG, would be 76th among SF
Jefferson- 74th among SF, would be 91st among PF
Frye- 39th among PF, would be 38 among C
average adjusted for position- 61st

It takes a bit of time to look up each RPM, especially since ESPN's site is crap. But through 7 teams we rank dead last. The Cavs are the only team even close and they have Lebron to cover multiple positions which minimizes the importance of having a set player as a backup pg/sg/sf/pf since he can play any of those and they can base other players on matchups.
“If you're getting stops and you're making threes and the other team's not scoring, that's when you're going to see a huge point difference there,” coach Billy Donovan said.
User avatar
bondom34
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 66,716
And1: 50,290
Joined: Mar 01, 2013

Re: Okc fans are impatient? 

Post#14 » by bondom34 » Fri Feb 3, 2017 8:37 am

spearsy23 wrote:Snip.

Nice! Interesting stuff actually. Hoopsstats has efiviency differential too, 19th. Are those ranks the 1st 5 off the bench?

http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball/fantasy/nba/teamstats/17/7/diffeff/1-1

Also posted in the other thread but 2 guys in ESPNs 25 under 25.

Edit: 3 for Amin
MyUniBroDavis wrote: he was like YALL PEOPLE WHO DOUBT ME WILL SEE YALLS STATS ARE WRONG I HAVE THE BIG BRAIN PLAYS MUCHO NASTY BIG BRAIN BIG CHUNGUS BRAIN YOU BOYS ON UR BBALL REFERENCE NO UNDERSTANDO
User avatar
spearsy23
RealGM
Posts: 19,481
And1: 7,654
Joined: Jan 27, 2012
   

Re: Okc fans are impatient? 

Post#15 » by spearsy23 » Fri Feb 3, 2017 9:17 am

bondom34 wrote:
spearsy23 wrote:Snip.

Nice! Interesting stuff actually. Hoopsstats has efiviency differential too, 19th. Are those ranks the 1st 5 off the bench?

http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball/fantasy/nba/teamstats/17/7/diffeff/1-1

Also posted in the other thread but 2 guys in ESPNs 25 under 25.

I didn't look up the minutes and haven't gotten to watch much non-okc ball but they're the main backups at each position as far as I can tell/reason and based on ESPN's depth charts. I did look up a few guys like felder to make sure they're in the rotation.
“If you're getting stops and you're making threes and the other team's not scoring, that's when you're going to see a huge point difference there,” coach Billy Donovan said.
User avatar
Old Man Game
Head Coach
Posts: 6,281
And1: 4,317
Joined: Jul 15, 2012

Re: Okc fans are impatient? 

Post#16 » by Old Man Game » Fri Feb 3, 2017 12:36 pm

bondom34 wrote:
Old Man Game wrote:I sincerely believe big picture we should think about blowing it up and rebuilding through the draft. That is typically a 4 to six year process. It may be rash but it's not impatient. It's all kinds of patient.

Sent from my KFFOWI using RealGM mobile app

Its much more than that.

Look at the teams building through the draft for 4-6 years. It's taking over 10. And it's easier to make incremental moves.


10 years, then that just makes my point even more. I'm nothing if not patient.
User avatar
bondom34
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 66,716
And1: 50,290
Joined: Mar 01, 2013

Re: Okc fans are impatient? 

Post#17 » by bondom34 » Fri Feb 3, 2017 2:32 pm

Old Man Game wrote:
bondom34 wrote:
Old Man Game wrote:I sincerely believe big picture we should think about blowing it up and rebuilding through the draft. That is typically a 4 to six year process. It may be rash but it's not impatient. It's all kinds of patient.

Sent from my KFFOWI using RealGM mobile app

Its much more than that.

Look at the teams building through the draft for 4-6 years. It's taking over 10. And it's easier to make incremental moves.


10 years, then that just makes my point even more. I'm nothing if not patient.

But you're not yet. You're saying you will be, but after 8 years of being awful with no guarantees, will you be? Because that's a lot to say that OKC fans haven't ever dealt with (10 years of awful basketball). We literally had a Magic fan chime in to say just that.

And it's exponentially easier to start with 1 star than 0.
MyUniBroDavis wrote: he was like YALL PEOPLE WHO DOUBT ME WILL SEE YALLS STATS ARE WRONG I HAVE THE BIG BRAIN PLAYS MUCHO NASTY BIG BRAIN BIG CHUNGUS BRAIN YOU BOYS ON UR BBALL REFERENCE NO UNDERSTANDO
User avatar
Pillendreher
RealGM
Posts: 14,191
And1: 9,953
Joined: Jan 25, 2015
 

Re: Okc fans are impatient?  

Post#18 » by Pillendreher » Fri Feb 3, 2017 2:39 pm

What do you mean 'start'? We're not' starting with Russ. That happened way back when...
"I don't know of any player that, when the shot goes up, he doesn't want it to go in," Donovan said
User avatar
bondom34
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 66,716
And1: 50,290
Joined: Mar 01, 2013

Re: Okc fans are impatient? 

Post#19 » by bondom34 » Fri Feb 3, 2017 2:56 pm

Pillendreher wrote:What do you mean 'start'? We're not' starting with Russ. That happened way back when...

Now is the start. How is that hard to comprehend.

You're starting half way there.

You know what I kinda want them to tank and the team become irrelevant. Would be great seeing the empty stands in the Peake and fanbase leave entirely.
MyUniBroDavis wrote: he was like YALL PEOPLE WHO DOUBT ME WILL SEE YALLS STATS ARE WRONG I HAVE THE BIG BRAIN PLAYS MUCHO NASTY BIG BRAIN BIG CHUNGUS BRAIN YOU BOYS ON UR BBALL REFERENCE NO UNDERSTANDO
User avatar
Old Man Game
Head Coach
Posts: 6,281
And1: 4,317
Joined: Jul 15, 2012

Re: RE: Re: Okc fans are impatient? 

Post#20 » by Old Man Game » Fri Feb 3, 2017 2:56 pm

bondom34 wrote:
Old Man Game wrote:
bondom34 wrote:Its much more than that.

Look at the teams building through the draft for 4-6 years. It's taking over 10. And it's easier to make incremental moves.


10 years, then that just makes my point even more. I'm nothing if not patient.

But you're not yet. You're saying you will be, but after 8 years of being awful with no guarantees, will you be? Because that's a lot to say that OKC fans haven't ever dealt with (10 years of awful basketball). We literally had a Magic fan chime in to say just that.

And it's exponentially easier to start with 1 star than 0.

Well, that's a fair point. There's certainly reason to believe we could regret it at some point if it didn't pan out sooner rather than later.

But we'll face this decision anyway soon enough. One way or another.

Return to Oklahoma City Thunder