Political Roundtable Part XII

[closg00]

Trump was quick to tweet about an attack on a French soldier this morning (no deaths), but he tweeted nothing when a deplorable killed scores in a Mosque in Quebec.


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[Doug_Blew]

Damn republicans with their income redistribution...

Trump will force the delay of an Obama-era rule that required retirement advisers to act in their clients' best interests.

[AFM]

Anyone smarter than me have an opinion of Trump's SCOTUS pick?

I need someone to tell me what to think, and Alex Jones hasn't made a video yet.

Seems ideologically like a near straight up Scalia replacement, based on his published comments, but I don't know how their rulings line up. Republicans probably love him. Some Democrats likely still feel like this was Obama's appointment to make, and Trump could have extended an olive branch by nominating Obama's choice, Merrick Garland, widely characterized as a judicial moderate. But to the winners go the spoils, eh? I assume Gorsuch will be confirmed eventually.

PS: Sorry, you're smarter than Alex Jones. Funnier too.

Thanks, but no one is smarter than Alex Jones.

Watch on YouTube

He just did a few hours on the Joe Rogan Experience, next time you're bored you should check it out, I heard it's hysterical.

[dckingsfan]

Money is tight no doubt. But I refuse to believe that we can't find the money to improve our failing schools if we really want to.

Great list but there is no point in going over it until there is a clarification on why we keep spending more and getting no results. You ignoring the fundamental question. We have more than tripled per pupil spending - we can triple it again and there would still be no results. Why do you think that is?

[dckingsfan]

Zards, this is the "reporting" & transparency argument. This is why those laws came into play. Remember? We need all schools to be transparent. I added a phrase to your statement. The more the federal government has become involved in education, the harder it has become to comply with their testing/reporting. Do we want a group of bureaucrats reporting at schools or do we want teachers?

3. Less emphasis on testing [b](and federal and state reporting) and more emphasis on teaching and learning [/b]-- Again teachers repeatedly complain about "teaching to the test," which is often what they are increasingly forced to do as tests have become the Holy Grail of education. Testing is good for diagnostic purposes, but far too often test scores are used to punish schools, students and educators, which was especially the case under No Child Left Behind. Fortunately, the Every Student Succeeds Act signed into law by the Obama Administration last year calls for a reduced emphasis on testing.

[Doug_Blew]

Money is tight no doubt. But I refuse to believe that we can't find the money to improve our failing schools if we really want to.

Great list but there is no point in going over it until there is a clarification on why we keep spending more and getting no results. You ignoring the fundamental question. We have more than tripled per pupil spending - we can triple it again and there would still be no results. Why do you think that is?

Is this chart adjusted for inflation?

I also think it's misleading to base education on how high national scores go up over the years.

If the national average on a science test score goes from a 75% to a 77% which seems like a phenomenal increase. It would be a 2.6% increase which would look like nothing on your chart since the right side goes up to 100%. A 90% increase probably isn't even possible If the National average score on a test is 75% of the total score. So why have the right side of the chart go up to 100%?

[dckingsfan]

Is this chart adjusted for inflation?

I also think it's misleading to base education on how high national scores go up over the years.

If the national average on a science test score goes from a 75% to a 77% which seems like a phenomenal increase. It would be a 2.6% increase which would look like nothing on your chart since the right side goes up to 100%. A 90% increase probably isn't even possible If the National average score on a test is 75% of the total score. So why have the right side of the chart go up to 100%?

It is adjusted for inflation. Good question on the increase in performance. I don't think we would look for even a 10% increase. But we are decreasing... especially in the sciences.

It makes the point - we don't get any payback from the increased spending.

What is your proposal to better the schools? Are you in the spend camp? If so, why do you think we will have a different outcome?

[montestewart]

Random thought: Sure seems to be a lot of leaks in the Trump administration.

And Dr. Bornstein always seems ready to tell all. Donald Trump’s Doctor Says President Takes Hair-Growth Drug

If there is any Trump ED, hemorrhoids, or diarrhea over the next four years, we'll know.

[dckingsfan]

So, two ways to increase our growth to pay our deficits. Increase the number of educated immigrants - and that is going to be blocked in the most fundamental way by the Trump administration or improve our education system and that will be blocked in the most fundamental way by liberals and the public unions.

It is going to be a tough few years going forward.

[Ruzious]

So, two ways to increase our growth to pay our deficits. Increase the number of educated immigrants - and that is going to be blocked in the most fundamental way by the Trump administration or improve our education system and that will be blocked in the most fundamental way by liberals and the public unions.

It is going to be a tough few years going forward.

Any plan to improve education should start with Improving PUBLIC schools.

[dckingsfan]

So, two ways to increase our growth to pay our deficits. Increase the number of educated immigrants - and that is going to be blocked in the most fundamental way by the Trump administration or improve our education system and that will be blocked in the most fundamental way by liberals and the public unions.

It is going to be a tough few years going forward.

Any plan to improve education should start with Improving PUBLIC schools.

Great - how are you going to do that? Is that just a mantra?

American student performance has remained declined in mathematics and verbal skills, despite per-student spending tripling nationwide over the same 40-year period. That is a failure.

But liberals stay with the mantra of PUBLIC SCHOOLS FIRST! It is no wonder that they are having problems. Smh

[Ruzious]

So, two ways to increase our growth to pay our deficits. Increase the number of educated immigrants - and that is going to be blocked in the most fundamental way by the Trump administration or improve our education system and that will be blocked in the most fundamental way by liberals and the public unions.

It is going to be a tough few years going forward.

Any plan to improve education should start with Improving PUBLIC schools.

Great - how are you going to do that? Is that just a mantra?

American student performance has remained declined in mathematics and verbal skills, despite per-student spending tripling nationwide over the same 40-year period. That is a failure.

But we as liberals stay with the mantra of PUBLIC SCHOOLS FIRST! It is no wonder that we are getting killed. Smh

What sensible attempts to improve public schools have failed?

And if the system was so much better 40 years ago, why has it gotten so much worse?

[Doug_Blew]

Is this chart adjusted for inflation?

I also think it's misleading to base education on how high national scores go up over the years.

If the national average on a science test score goes from a 75% to a 77% which seems like a phenomenal increase. It would be a 2.6% increase which would look like nothing on your chart since the right side goes up to 100%. A 90% increase probably isn't even possible If the National average score on a test is 75% of the total score. So why have the right side of the chart go up to 100%?

It is adjusted for inflation. Good question on the increase in performance. I don't think we would look for even a 10% increase. But we are decreasing... especially in the sciences.

It makes the point - we don't get any payback from the increased spending.

What is your proposal to better the schools? Are you in the spend camp? If so, why do you think we will have a different outcome?

i haven't really followed this thread to closely. I was intrigued by the chart. What is the alternative camp to spending? Is it vouchers?

[dckingsfan]

Any plan to improve education should start with Improving PUBLIC schools.

Great - how are you going to do that? Is that just a mantra?

American student performance has remained declined in mathematics and verbal skills, despite per-student spending tripling nationwide over the same 40-year period. That is a failure.

But we as liberals stay with the mantra of PUBLIC SCHOOLS FIRST! It is no wonder that we are getting killed. Smh

What sensible attempts to improve public schools have failed?

What sensible approach are you advocating?

I am advocating competition between public and private schools, between public school districts, and between public schools within a given district.

I am advocating not doing what we have been doing that didn't work.

If you slam your head against a wall and it hurts - don't do it again.

[dckingsfan]

And if the system was so much better 40 years ago, why has it gotten so much worse?

Because of a lack of completion...

[Ruzious]

Great - how are you going to do that? Is that just a mantra?

American student performance has remained declined in mathematics and verbal skills, despite per-student spending tripling nationwide over the same 40-year period. That is a failure.

But we as liberals stay with the mantra of PUBLIC SCHOOLS FIRST! It is no wonder that we are getting killed. Smh

What sensible attempts to improve public schools have failed?

What sensible approach are you advocating?

I am advocating competition between public and private schools, between public school districts, and between public schools within a given district.

I am advocating not doing what we have been doing that didn't work.

If you slam your head against a wall and it hurts - don't do it again.

If there are improvements that would come with more competition, why aren't those improvements implemented now?

And why was competition not a problem 40 years ago?

[AFM]

Dck getting fired up. Do you work in education?

[gtn130]

And if the system was so much better 40 years ago, why has it gotten so much worse?

Because of a lack of completion...

Aren't we seeing what happens with higher education when there is unfettered competition and schools are treated as for-profit businesses?

The big trends among elite education systems across the globe - Japan, South Korea, Finland etc are:

1) They strongly prioritize and incentivize having high quality teachers
2) There is a strong cultural acceptance of the 'moral' purpose of education - it's a different level of commitment

[Ruzious]

I'm willing to see change for the better - but not change for the sake of change. So far, I haven't heard a decent plan.

[dckingsfan]

I'm willing to see change for the better - but not change for the sake of change. So far, I haven't heard a decent plan.

So, if something is failing - we keep doing that?