Hornets acquire Miles Plumlee for Hawes & Hibbert

[dmutombo321]

Its almost a case study in the psychology of irrational optimism to see how some folks can delude themselves into talking this up as if it was somehow a good deal. Yes, Plumlee is a better fit than either Hibbert or Hawes, but his pricetag far exceeds his value and there's a reason his is universally regarded as one of the 10 worst contracts in the NBA.

Cho has mastered the blueprint for casual fan appeasement; assemble a capped out .500ish squad just competitive enough to scrap for an ephemeral playoff cameo each year while lacking the talent to win a series nor the draft positioning or cap flexibility to meaningfully upgrade the roster enough to ever compete with the big boys

When his tenure as Charlotte's GM concludes, Cho's How-To book will be able to write itself:

'First Round Fodder
...A Manifesto for Mediocrity'

It has good alliteration and Al Jefferson can author the foreword

Completely disagree on the .500 team for obvious reasons.

Absolutely no reason this squad cant win ~50 games if healthy.

22-16 with zeller
1-11 without zeller

We are WELL over .500 with zeller and that was with hibbert completely screwing us.

We won 48 games last year and tied for 3rd place.

People talk about this "treadmill" but its all straight BS. Most championship teams were made by forming a good team and continuing to add pieces not by tanking.

A lot of these "young cores" everyone raves about top out at 30-40 wins. Then you have to pay them huge money before you know if they are good enough to justify it....

You have a user name that harken's back to the original Hornet's Golden age.

Where would you rank this year's team relative to the Rice/Mason/Divac core or the Mashburn/Baron/Wesley group?

I found those Hornets teams compelling because you knew they always had a chance to make deep playoff runs each year and the rosters were capable of beating any team in the league on a given night. If it werent for the Rice team running into the brick wall that was Jordan's Bulls in the second roundd of the playoffs (who they actually beat once in the regular season during their 72-10 year) or the Mashburn team falling in the conference semi finals after a commanding 3-2 leading, it wouldnt have been out of the question for either of those teams to have advanced and had a legit chance at winning the East.

That's something that would be unfathomable to imagine for this present Hornets team.

There's no question these hornets are fairly competitive, well coached, want to win and capable of playing some good ball. However, barring another trade, even if Zeller gets healthy and they regain form to slide into a 6-8 seed, I dont see any way in hell they defeat a Cleveland, Toronto or Boston in a 7 game series.

That leaves them with another first round exit, another draft pick in the 20ish range, no meaningful cap room aside from the MLE which wont be sufficient to sign a true difference maker. Which brings them to next year where they'll again be poised for another season of .500ish 40-some-odd-win basketball, only to rinse and repeat as their core grows older.

[dmutombo321]

Good Fox Sports piece on the trade:

http://www.foxsports.com/nba/story/what-charlotte-hornets-see-in-miles-plumlee-020317?cmpid=feed:-sports-CQ-RSS-Feed

[GlenRiceARoni]

Every team gets some type of MLE, they're just varying amounts depending on their cap status. Being over the cap but under the tax equals the largest possible MLE. Said MLE is also increasing by a good bit this year.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

Right but im almost positive you cant use the full MLE in back to back years.

The smaller one used to be referred to as the biannual exception

-----------------------------------------------------------------------Hinkie has created a monster that will awaken in 2018 precisely 200 years after Mary Shelley published Frankenstein in 1818 A.D.
I don't think for a second this is coincidental as Hinkie is well educated and a fan of Classic British Lit

[yosemiteben]

Right but im almost positive you cant use the full MLE in back to back years.

The smaller one used to be referred to as the biannual exception

Nah, you need to spend a little time reading the CBA FAQ (I do too).

The MLE is available every year.

The biannual exception is only available every other year, but it's a totally different exception from the MLE. You can use both the MLE and the biannual exception, but you can't combine them.

[GlenRiceARoni]

......and you came with NOTHING and weak logic and left with nothing and weak "if''s"

You dont know what the blank you're talking about and we will leave it at that.

Hibberts negative production has been discussed ad nauseum on this board. Go ahead and find me one hornets poster who agrees with you.

And give it a rest with PER. It was a horrible metric ten years ago but its even more useless now as TS% continues to rise.

It uses 50% TS as neutral when we know 55% is closer to reality.



-----------------------------------------------------------------------Hinkie has created a monster that will awaken in 2018 precisely 200 years after Mary Shelley published Frankenstein in 1818 A.D.
I don't think for a second this is coincidental as Hinkie is well educated and a fan of Classic British Lit

[GlenRiceARoni]

Right but im almost positive you cant use the full MLE in back to back years.

The smaller one used to be referred to as the biannual exception

Nah, you need to spend a little time reading the CBA FAQ (I do too).

The MLE is available every year.

The biannual exception is only available every other year, but it's a totally different exception from the MLE. You can use both the MLE and the biannual exception, but you can't combine them.

So who did miami bring in the year after they signed mike miller with the MLE?

I really thought there was more to it than that. But since we never used it maybe i didnt keep up with closely

-----------------------------------------------------------------------Hinkie has created a monster that will awaken in 2018 precisely 200 years after Mary Shelley published Frankenstein in 1818 A.D.
I don't think for a second this is coincidental as Hinkie is well educated and a fan of Classic British Lit

[JMAC3]

To me, this isn't that bad of a move. If you realistically look most teams are lacking depth at center. If you want a halfway decent backup center you have to pay for it. Hence a Meyers Leonard, Biz, Baynes, Boban, Jefferson, Kanter, or Mahinmi. All of them would get bigger offers this summer to be backups then what Plumlee got.

You either have a rookie backup on a cheap deal, a guy making 10 plus million who is decent or a nobody who sucks. Jeff Withey, Justin Hamilton, and Cristiano Felicio are all backups in this league...

They way I'm looking at it is that Plumlee and Zeller are good enough to be our 1-2 combo at center for next 4 years so we are set at that position and can focus our moves and picks on other areas.

Plumlee was a double double guy just a few seasons ago and had a few 20+ rebound games. He had the physical abilities to succeed, just need him to learn the system.




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[GlenRiceARoni]

You have a user name that harken's back to the original Hornet's Golden age.

Where would you rank this year's team relative to the Rice/Mason/Divac core or the Mashburn/Baron/Wesley group?

I found those Hornets teams compelling because you knew they always had a chance to make deep playoff runs each year and the rosters were capable of beating any team in the league on a given night. If it werent for the Rice team running into the brick wall that was Jordan's Bulls in the second roundd of the playoffs (who they actually beat once in the regular season during their 72-10 year) or the Mashburn team falling in the conference semi finals after a commanding 3-2 leading, it wouldnt have been out of the question for either of those teams to have advanced and had a legit chance at winning the East.

That's something that would be unfathomable to imagine for this present Hornets team.

There's no question these hornets are fairly competitive, well coached, want to win and capable of playing some good ball. However, barring another trade, even if Zeller gets healthy and they regain form to slide into a 6-8 seed, I dont see any way in hell they defeat a Cleveland, Toronto or Boston in a 7 game series.

That leaves them with another first round exit, another draft pick in the 20ish range, no meaningful cap room aside from the MLE which wont be sufficient to sign a true difference maker. Which brings them to next year where they'll again be poised for another season of .500ish 40-some-odd-win basketball, only to rinse and repeat as their core grows older.

Id say our starting lineup is about as good as anyones not named CLE or GSW.

The real difference for us is how weak our depth is.

We cant beat Cleveland this year no doubt but that is an OLD capped out roster. They have already peaked and are headed for a likely harsh slide the next year or two without working serious magic.

Boston is a good regular season team because of depth but they weaken significantly in the postseason as bench importance wanes.


Toronto is a great matchup for us. We put mkg on derozan. We smoked them once and had them beat the other time until our bench got waxed in the 4th


The east was weak as crap on the mashburn team so sure we had a better chance that year.

The glen rice team was slightly better than our current group.

But say we add a legitimate backup PG with our $8.4 MLE.

Then use our trade exception to trade MKG, Lamb, and two firsts for a jimmy butler TYPE player this offseason

Wed be looking at

Kemba/solid backup/mccallum
Batum/Bellinelli
Butler/Graham
Marv/kaminsky
Zeller/plumlee/wood/tobey

Thats a highly competitive roster that id expect to grab a top four seed and have a shot to make the Finals especially if Love's back continues to degenerate





-----------------------------------------------------------------------Hinkie has created a monster that will awaken in 2018 precisely 200 years after Mary Shelley published Frankenstein in 1818 A.D.
I don't think for a second this is coincidental as Hinkie is well educated and a fan of Classic British Lit

[yosemiteben]

So who did miami bring in the year after they signed mike miller with the MLE?

I really thought there was more to it than that. But since we never used it maybe i didnt keep up with closely

You don't have to use the MLE (we didn't 2015 summer when we signed Lin to the biannual exception), but it's always available. Like BOB pointed out, the amount of the MLE depends on your cap situation.

I don't know the history of MIA's cap management so I can't really answer that first question.

[GlenRiceARoni]

I dont recall who the clippers used the MLE on the summer after they used it on hawes either.

I really thought they couldnt but maybe i misunderstood and they couldnt because of another reason?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------Hinkie has created a monster that will awaken in 2018 precisely 200 years after Mary Shelley published Frankenstein in 1818 A.D.
I don't think for a second this is coincidental as Hinkie is well educated and a fan of Classic British Lit

[BlackOutBuzz]

Every team gets some type of MLE, they're just varying amounts depending on their cap status. Being over the cap but under the tax equals the largest possible MLE. Said MLE is also increasing by a good bit this year.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

Right but im almost positive you cant use the full MLE in back to back years.

The smaller one used to be referred to as the biannual exception

-----------------------------------------------------------------------Hinkie has created a monster that will awaken in 2018 precisely 200 years after Mary Shelley published Frankenstein in 1818 A.D.
I don't think for a second this is coincidental as Hinkie is well educated and a fan of Classic British Lit

The only one that can't be used in back to back years is the bi-annual exception, hence the name.

The smaller MLE you're referring to is likely either the Taxpayer's MLE or the Room MLE.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

[fatlever]

Are we sure that Tobey isn't actually a Plumlee brother?

How do we tell this guys apart? One of them needs to get a neck tattoo or something.

[GlenRiceARoni]

The only one that can't be used in back to back years is the bi-annual exception, hence the name.

The **** Beatles, are they any good?

Nah they suck.

Oh, so its not just a clever name.



Right i was aware of the biannual rules but i thought if you used the MLE on mike miller like miami did it was gone as long as he was there...or at least for the following offseason...

Can anyone think of an example where a team used the MLE back to back years? I cant and i follow free agency about as close as possible.

Not a CBA expert or capologist though. I consult it but i dont consume it.



Wait i think i might get it... if youre over the soft cap but not the TAX line you get the MLE. But if over tge tax you get a partial MLE?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------Hinkie has created a monster that will awaken in 2018 precisely 200 years after Mary Shelley published Frankenstein in 1818 A.D.
I don't think for a second this is coincidental as Hinkie is well educated and a fan of Classic British Lit

[BlackOutBuzz]

The only one that can't be used in back to back years is the bi-annual exception, hence the name.

The **** Beatles, are they any good?

Nah they suck.

Oh, so its not just a clever name.



Right i was aware of the biannual rules but i thought if you used the MLE on mike miller like miami did it was gone as long as he was there...or at least for the following offseason...

No.

The Clippers use it every damn year.

2012: Crawford
2013: Barnes
2014: Hawes
2015: Pierce
2016: Wes Johnson



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[skones]

To me, this isn't that bad of a move. If you realistically look most teams are lacking depth at center. If you want a halfway decent backup center you have to pay for it. Hence a Meyers Leonard, Biz, Baynes, Boban, Jefferson, Kanter, or Mahinmi. All of them would get bigger offers this summer to be backups then what Plumlee got.

You either have a rookie backup on a cheap deal, a guy making 10 plus million who is decent or a nobody who sucks. Jeff Withey, Justin Hamilton, and Cristiano Felicio are all backups in this league...

They way I'm looking at it is that Plumlee and Zeller are good enough to be our 1-2 combo at center for next 4 years so we are set at that position and can focus our moves and picks on other areas.

Plumlee was a double double guy just a few seasons ago and had a few 20+ rebound games. He had the physical abilities to succeed, just need him to learn the system.




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The problem is that Plumlee is closer to "a nobody who sucks" than that "decent backup who's paid 10 million."

[bravor]

Just couple of days gone since this trade and you read a rumor with the bulls interested by Okafor... If Lopez is moved, i guess i will be pretty pissed at Cho & the whole organization (depending on the counterpart, but still...).

[No-Man]

There is a way from treadmill to championship, you just need unreal luck in the draft+perfect timing with trades.

[GlenRiceARoni]

There is a way from treadmill to championship, you just need unreal luck in the draft+perfect timing with trades.

Its actually a heck of a lot more frequent than tanking.

If youre gonna tank do it hinkie style.

Most people half heartedly tank and try to rise above the ashes without the firepower. Like wiggins, lavine, kat will probably never even be close to good enough to conpete

Charlotte is a borderline 50 win team right now. Historically it takes 55+ wins to be a contender.

Probably 60+ right now due to the warriors unreal team strength

-----------------------------------------------------------------------Hinkie has created a monster that will awaken in 2018 precisely 200 years after Mary Shelley published Frankenstein in 1818 A.D.
I don't think for a second this is coincidental as Hinkie is well educated and a fan of Classic British Lit

[chrbal]

First off for the old timers, this trade reminds me of when the (then) Bobcats got Nazr Mohammed. Trade two useless players for an overpaid out of rotation center who might actually help. But still, meh

That was the worst trade ever because we had to give up Herrmann.

This was the weirdest trade ever because I was consistently following the Pistons and Charlotte at the time.
The Pistons signed Nazr to like a 4 or 5 year contract to replace Ben Wallace. He didn't fit and looked like a really bad contract signing. 1st year he played 51 games and about 15 minutes a game. Can't remember the contract, but wasn't what they paid for. 2nd year it got worse. Charlotte trades two young frontcourt players on expiring deals, one being Walter who had a really great stretch the year before. Charlotte got NO draft picks, NO money from Detroit and somehow this trade works out very good for both.