John Wall Appreciation Thread - Part III

[Ruzious]

Isn't Antetokounmpo playing PG this season? If he is, then he slots right near the top. Of course, even if he is playing PG you can choose not to count him, so you can put Wall where you'd like him to be.

He's played there a lot, but I think he'll play less and less at the point in the future. It's worn him out, and it's exposed his tendency to turn the ball over. Problem is - all Milwaukee has at the point is Delavodova - who should be a backup (and is very over-paid) and Brogdon (who's much more of a 2 than a 1).

I've said this for a while.. Giannis is not a PG, he's a great all-around player but the point guard stuff is all hype. His handles aren't good enough and he isn't Lebron-level mobile

The Bucks still need an actual point guard if they want to get anywhere. Not just a Delly or Brogdon type game-manager, but a legit dynamic player at the 1. If their season continues tanking, they'll have a few nice options in this years draft.

At this point, I don't think there's any way they can tank enough to get a top 5 pick - especially with Middleton expected back very soon - unless they get lucky in the lotto. So it's going to be tough getting the PG they need. It might be better to trade Parker for a PG - or at least a combo guard - like McCullom of Portland.

[Illmatic12]

He's played there a lot, but I think he'll play less and less at the point in the future. It's worn him out, and it's exposed his tendency to turn the ball over. Problem is - all Milwaukee has at the point is Delavodova - who should be a backup (and is very over-paid) and Brogdon (who's much more of a 2 than a 1).

I've said this for a while.. Giannis is not a PG, he's a great all-around player but the point guard stuff is all hype. His handles aren't good enough and he isn't Lebron-level mobile

The Bucks still need an actual point guard if they want to get anywhere. Not just a Delly or Brogdon type game-manager, but a legit dynamic player at the 1. If their season continues tanking, they'll have a few nice options in this years draft.

At this point, I don't think there's any way they can tank enough to get a top 5 pick - especially with Middleton expected back very soon - unless they get lucky in the lotto. So it's going to be tough getting the PG they need. It might be better to trade Parker for a PG - or at least a combo guard - like McCullom of Portland.

There are at least 5-6 PG prospects to look at this year. I think De'Aaron Fox or Frank Ntilikina should be in their range (if they draft from 8-14ish)

Trading Parker would probably be the nuclear option if they integrate Middleton next season and Jabari looks like he doesn't fit, or his defense remains atrocious.

[doclinkin]

Top 5- Westbrook, Harden, Curry, CP3 and Wall... I cant respect Boston since the funeral game!

Isn't Antetokounmpo playing PG this season? If he is, then he slots right near the top. Of course, even if he is playing PG you can choose not to count him, so you can put Wall where you'd like him to be.

Similarly, there's no reason to count Kyle Lowry, who's having a significantly better season than John Wall (who is having a great season, we all agree). After all, if you count Kyle Lowry, then you can't put Wall where you want him to be, right?

As well, hey, why not leave out Mike Conley? Yes, he's having a tremendous year -- a better year even than John -- but... if he's in, then that affects where John Wall is.

Better how and why. Considering play at both ends of the court, John may be the best two way PG in the league. Consider the NBA hustle stats page. Here. John Wall is top five in both Deflections (number five behind CP3 and Lowry) and Loose Balls Recovered (2nd behind Conley). 2nd in the league in Steals behind only Chris Paul and Top 5 in Blocks by PG (tied with Teague, but nobody else you cited).

On offense he's tied for 2nd with Russ in assists per game. But turns it over less. (and are we calling Harden a PG? He's #1 in assists but doesn't defend them).

[Ruzious]

I've said this for a while.. Giannis is not a PG, he's a great all-around player but the point guard stuff is all hype. His handles aren't good enough and he isn't Lebron-level mobile

The Bucks still need an actual point guard if they want to get anywhere. Not just a Delly or Brogdon type game-manager, but a legit dynamic player at the 1. If their season continues tanking, they'll have a few nice options in this years draft.

At this point, I don't think there's any way they can tank enough to get a top 5 pick - especially with Middleton expected back very soon - unless they get lucky in the lotto. So it's going to be tough getting the PG they need. It might be better to trade Parker for a PG - or at least a combo guard - like McCullom of Portland.

There are at least 5-6 PG prospects to look at this year. I think De'Aaron Fox or Frank Ntilikina should be in their range (if they draft from 8-14ish)

Trading Parker would probably be the nuclear option if they integrate Middleton next season and Jabari looks like he doesn't fit, or his defense remains atrocious.

Keeping Parker is going to be a problem, because it'll likely put them in lux tax - though getting rid of Plumlee might help them get out of it. He's become a real good offensive player, but his defense is a major problem.

There's a big dropoff after the big 3 PG's. I don't think either Fox or Ntilikina are the answer. Fox has a chance to be a great defender, but he can't shoot, and he's often sloppy going to the basket. He's a very poor man's John Wall offensively - and he's not as strong as Wall. He has good stats, but I don't think they'll transfer well to the NBA. The sloppy ball-handling on drives will lead to more to's, and he doesn't have the strength to finish that works in college but doesn't in the NBA. I think Ntilikina will also be a great defender, but it'll take him a couple of years to adjust to the NBA. I'd rather have someone who can start as a rookie.

[Ruzious]

Top 5- Westbrook, Harden, Curry, CP3 and Wall... I cant respect Boston since the funeral game!

Isn't Antetokounmpo playing PG this season? If he is, then he slots right near the top. Of course, even if he is playing PG you can choose not to count him, so you can put Wall where you'd like him to be.

Similarly, there's no reason to count Kyle Lowry, who's having a significantly better season than John Wall (who is having a great season, we all agree). After all, if you count Kyle Lowry, then you can't put Wall where you want him to be, right?

As well, hey, why not leave out Mike Conley? Yes, he's having a tremendous year -- a better year even than John -- but... if he's in, then that affects where John Wall is.

Better how and why. Considering play at both ends of the court, John may be the best two way PG in the league. Consider the NBA hustle stats page. Here. John Wall is top five in both Deflections (number five behind CP3 and Lowry) and Loose Balls Recovered (2nd behind Conley). 2nd in the league in Steals behind only Chris Paul and Top 5 in Blocks by PG (tied with Teague, but nobody else you cited).

On offense he's tied for 2nd with Russ in assists per game. But turns it over less. (and are we calling Harden a PG? He's #1 in assists but doesn't defend them).

Cool - I didn't realize there was a site for hustle stats. Interesting that Robert Covington leads in non-shot deflections by a significant margin. And Gortat is easily the most prolific screener for assists in the NBA.

[nate33]

Top 5- Westbrook, Harden, Curry, CP3 and Wall... I cant respect Boston since the funeral game!

Isn't Antetokounmpo playing PG this season? If he is, then he slots right near the top. Of course, even if he is playing PG you can choose not to count him, so you can put Wall where you'd like him to be.

Similarly, there's no reason to count Kyle Lowry, who's having a significantly better season than John Wall (who is having a great season, we all agree). After all, if you count Kyle Lowry, then you can't put Wall where you want him to be, right?

As well, hey, why not leave out Mike Conley? Yes, he's having a tremendous year -- a better year even than John -- but... if he's in, then that affects where John Wall is.

Better how and why. Considering play at both ends of the court, John may be the best two way PG in the league. Consider the NBA hustle stats page. Here. John Wall is top five in both Deflections (number five behind CP3 and Lowry) and Loose Balls Recovered (2nd behind Conley). 2nd in the league in Steals behind only Chris Paul and Top 5 in Blocks by PG (tied with Teague, but nobody else you cited).

On offense he's tied for 2nd with Russ in assists per game. But turns it over less. (and are we calling Harden a PG? He's #1 in assists but doesn't defend them).

FWIW, Wall (and Gortat) look really good in those numbers because they play so many minutes. If you view it on a per 36 minute basis and weed out anyone who hasn't played 800 or more minutes, then Wall ranks 15th in deflections and 9th in loose balls recovered. That's still really good, but not quite as dominant.

BTW, Kelly Oubre ranks 9th in deflections per minute.

[doclinkin]

Isn't Antetokounmpo playing PG this season? If he is, then he slots right near the top. Of course, even if he is playing PG you can choose not to count him, so you can put Wall where you'd like him to be.

Similarly, there's no reason to count Kyle Lowry, who's having a significantly better season than John Wall (who is having a great season, we all agree). After all, if you count Kyle Lowry, then you can't put Wall where you want him to be, right?

As well, hey, why not leave out Mike Conley? Yes, he's having a tremendous year -- a better year even than John -- but... if he's in, then that affects where John Wall is.

Better how and why. Considering play at both ends of the court, John may be the best two way PG in the league. Consider the NBA hustle stats page. Here. John Wall is top five in both Deflections (number five behind CP3 and Lowry) and Loose Balls Recovered (2nd behind Conley). 2nd in the league in Steals behind only Chris Paul and Top 5 in Blocks by PG (tied with Teague, but nobody else you cited).

On offense he's tied for 2nd with Russ in assists per game. But turns it over less. (and are we calling Harden a PG? He's #1 in assists but doesn't defend them).

FWIW, Wall (and Gortat) look really good in those numbers because they play so many minutes. If you view it on a per 36 minute basis and weed out anyone who hasn't played 800 or more minutes, then Wall ranks 15th in deflections and 9th in loose balls recovered. That's still really good, but not quite as dominant.

BTW, Kelly Oubre ranks 9th in deflections per minute.

I don't see the ability to play a ton of minutes as a knock on his ability. Somebody has to play those minutes. Probably he could prove more efficient in shorter minutes with frantic bursts of energy The fact that he can produce at a high level while staying on the court (uninjured. knock wood) is in his favor as far as I'm concerned.

[Illmatic12]

At this point, I don't think there's any way they can tank enough to get a top 5 pick - especially with Middleton expected back very soon - unless they get lucky in the lotto. So it's going to be tough getting the PG they need. It might be better to trade Parker for a PG - or at least a combo guard - like McCullom of Portland.

There are at least 5-6 PG prospects to look at this year. I think De'Aaron Fox or Frank Ntilikina should be in their range (if they draft from 8-14ish)

Trading Parker would probably be the nuclear option if they integrate Middleton next season and Jabari looks like he doesn't fit, or his defense remains atrocious.

Keeping Parker is going to be a problem, because it'll likely put them in lux tax - though getting rid of Plumlee might help them get out of it. He's become a real good offensive player, but his defense is a major problem.

There's a big dropoff after the big 3 PG's. I don't think either Fox or Ntilikina are the answer. Fox has a chance to be a great defender, but he can't shoot, and he's often sloppy going to the basket. He's a very poor man's John Wall offensively - and he's not as strong as Wall. He has good stats, but I don't think they'll transfer well to the NBA. The sloppy ball-handling on drives will lead to more to's, and he doesn't have the strength to finish that works in college but doesn't in the NBA. I think Ntilikina will also be a great defender, but it'll take him a couple of years to adjust to the NBA. I'd rather have someone who can start as a rookie.

Yeah in this draft the pg prospects aren't exactly world beaters once you get past Fultz/Ball/DSJ but I see that as a position of need , that would have to be filled eventually.

I can't believe the Bucks managed to offload Plumlee's contract. What would be the Bucks long term salary outlook after they drop Monroe and max Parker?

[Ruzious]

There are at least 5-6 PG prospects to look at this year. I think De'Aaron Fox or Frank Ntilikina should be in their range (if they draft from 8-14ish)

Trading Parker would probably be the nuclear option if they integrate Middleton next season and Jabari looks like he doesn't fit, or his defense remains atrocious.

Keeping Parker is going to be a problem, because it'll likely put them in lux tax - though getting rid of Plumlee might help them get out of it. He's become a real good offensive player, but his defense is a major problem.

There's a big dropoff after the big 3 PG's. I don't think either Fox or Ntilikina are the answer. Fox has a chance to be a great defender, but he can't shoot, and he's often sloppy going to the basket. He's a very poor man's John Wall offensively - and he's not as strong as Wall. He has good stats, but I don't think they'll transfer well to the NBA. The sloppy ball-handling on drives will lead to more to's, and he doesn't have the strength to finish that works in college but doesn't in the NBA. I think Ntilikina will also be a great defender, but it'll take him a couple of years to adjust to the NBA. I'd rather have someone who can start as a rookie.

Yeah in this draft the pg prospects aren't exactly world beaters once you get past Fultz/Ball/DSJ but I see that as a position of need , that would have to be filled eventually.

I can't believe the Bucks managed to offload Plumlee's contract. What would be the Bucks long term salary outlook after they drop Monroe and max Parker?

Good question. I saw the projected numbers a few months ago and just remember how ugly they looked. I'll try to dig them up. The deals for Delladova and Tellatovic and Plumlee messed things up, but now it's just Della Tella.

[CobraCommander]

Isn't Antetokounmpo playing PG this season? If he is, then he slots right near the top. Of course, even if he is playing PG you can choose not to count him, so you can put Wall where you'd like him to be.

Similarly, there's no reason to count Kyle Lowry, who's having a significantly better season than John Wall (who is having a great season, we all agree). After all, if you count Kyle Lowry, then you can't put Wall where you want him to be, right?

As well, hey, why not leave out Mike Conley? Yes, he's having a tremendous year -- a better year even than John -- but... if he's in, then that affects where John Wall is.

For that matter, don't try and get me to actually look at what Jeff Teague has done this season, ok!?! I mean... come on? How is that good for where we rank John Wall?

In fact, aren't we all kind of bored with Chris Paul, James Harden, Russell Westbrook & Steph Curry? Don't we just hear their names way too much? You know... really, why do we have to keep repeating those names. Yeah, lets get some white-out -- you remember that stuff, don't you? Worked great! -- & just like magic those names are gone.

John Wall is the #1 point guard in the league! I'm not sure they should even let other guys be called "point guards" -- what's the "point" of that? Get what I mean?

After all. There's nobody like him. He's alone in the universe.

Did somebody mention Isaiah Thomas? Why are we talking about some retired guy on NBA TV? Wasn't he a Center anyway?

Now I'm with you - they all point guards and JW is the pointGod!

On a semi serious note... a fan board for a team/artist/actor/world leader (cobra) isn't about objectivity. It's mostly about talking about the subject with people that share your appreciation or interest in the subject often in a over zealous unreasonable way. A specific fan boards player appreciation thread is wayyyyy more bias than even the board. I couldn't tell if you were being slick with your comment or not but honestly - I'm not trying to be fair or unbiased on this thread- on this thread I'm being a ridiculous fan of Wiz and John Wall!

Now if they trade him (and they better not... or he walks and he better not) ... I'll be on the (name the new best player on wiz thread) putting him top 5!

I been a wiz fan through the lean years (which continue) and we gotta take pride in our boys.

Cobra -- you need to & get to be just as you want to be! I ain't no rule maker. Go for it. I prefer to be as close to objective as my abilities allow me to be, but I wouldn't ever tell anyone they need to be like me!

As to whether I was being "slick" -- I was just having fun! John's a terrific player, & we are 9 games above .500. I can't remember the last time we had this good a record this late in the season. Awesome!

Same same....you know me. I just want to enjoy this while it last...cause im a realist in the real world...and I CANT BELIEVE WE 4th in the NBA rankings on ESPN. Right behind Spurs, Warriors and Cavs...I would never ever imagine that. So with that said, that means the ESPN rankings say the final 4 in the NBA would be Warriors and Spurs in the western finals...which i could/would believe and the Cavs and Wiz in the EAST...OMG i cant believe someone - NOT on this board believes that!. Let me have my week of unobjective bliss...please...

[SizzlinSimms]

John Wall is so feisty and competitive. I love him. I honestly, love him, and he doesn't even know me.

He goes out and balls man. He's been putting the damn team on his back and balling. Without him we'd be ****. I love him. He isn't about him, he shares and gets the players involved. Gortat while his scoring might be lower, is balling. Beal is balling, and those open 3s are magical with that stroke, Morris/Ottomatic balling, Oubre balling. We ballin boys!

[Wizardspride]

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[deneem4]

John wall is holding us back...
Only because he's holding himself back...

Score when you drive wall...
Don't kick out to make an extra pass...

I hate seeing wall be 6inch away from the rim with the ball and kick it out...just score, it'll make you the key focus of the defense even more and will get our guys even more open looks

Addition by subtraction

More wttacking and scoring less defensive pressure on the shooters

[doclinkin]

Change of pace:

538.com says John Wall is the fastest player with the ball when he wants to be. Just under20mph. (!!! With the ball!!)

But in terms of total pace he's 61st in the league. Turns it on and off when he wants to.

Article here. Half way down the page.

[CobraCommander]

John wall is holding us back...
Only because he's holding himself back...

Score when you drive wall...
Don't kick out to make an extra pass...

I hate seeing wall be 6inch away from the rim with the ball and kick it out...just score, it'll make you the key focus of the defense even more and will get our guys even more open looks

That crap used to drive me crazy too...but wall avg 23 points a game and WE ALL KNOW he cant really shoot so he must be taking a lot of shots at the rim (wait for the stat men to show up with the data).

I would like to consider your comment that Wall is holding us back....hmmmm. We are 11 of 12 with the one game we lost to the Cavs were Lebron threw up some straight BS for a bank shot 3 at the buzzer...hmmmm if JW is holding us back...ill take it. Consider this...this is the best season we have had since the 70s.... DUDE the 70s... ain't nobody holding us back... enjoy the ride.

[tontoz]

John wall is holding us back...
Only because he's holding himself back...

Score when you drive wall...
Don't kick out to make an extra pass...

I hate seeing wall be 6inch away from the rim with the ball and kick it out...just score, it'll make you the key focus of the defense even more and will get our guys even more open looks

That crap used to drive me crazy too...but wall avg 23 points a game and WE ALL KNOW he cant really shoot so he must be taking a lot of shots at the rim (wait for the stat men to show up with the data).

I would like to consider your comment that Wall is holding us back....hmmmm. We are 11 of 12 with the one game we lost to the Cavs were Lebron threw up some straight BS for a bank shot 3 at the buzzer...hmmmm if JW is holding us back...ill take it. Consider this...this is the best season we have had since the 70s.... DUDE the 70s... ain't nobody holding us back... enjoy the ride.

Wall is taking 6.5 shots per game inside 3 feet.

http://bkref.com/tiny/owgF4

He is getting to the foul line over 6 times per game. He is definitely driving and trying to finish. I think his big problem is that he rarely puts up a shot fake. He almost always goes straight up with the shot which makes him predictable to the defenders.

[CobraCommander]

John wall is holding us back...
Only because he's holding himself back...

Score when you drive wall...
Don't kick out to make an extra pass...

I hate seeing wall be 6inch away from the rim with the ball and kick it out...just score, it'll make you the key focus of the defense even more and will get our guys even more open looks

That crap used to drive me crazy too...but wall avg 23 points a game and WE ALL KNOW he cant really shoot so he must be taking a lot of shots at the rim (wait for the stat men to show up with the data).

I would like to consider your comment that Wall is holding us back....hmmmm. We are 11 of 12 with the one game we lost to the Cavs were Lebron threw up some straight BS for a bank shot 3 at the buzzer...hmmmm if JW is holding us back...ill take it. Consider this...this is the best season we have had since the 70s.... DUDE the 70s... ain't nobody holding us back... enjoy the ride.

Wall is taking 6.5 shots per game inside 3 feet.

http://bkref.com/tiny/owgF4

He is getting to the foul line over 6 times per game. He is definitely driving and trying to finish. I think his big problem is that he rarely puts up a shot fake. He almost always goes straight up with the shot which makes him predictable to the defenders.

I knew you would show up with the facts to back up my opinions! Thanks

[CobraCommander]

John didn't take advantage of AllStar weekend-

John needs to look at the AllStar weekend to solidify himself with the elite of the elites. Not only for personal gain but for the team. Its obvious that winning a skills challenge, dunk contest the 3point shootout wont do for you what it did for Mike or Bird but coming out and being a wrecking ball during the AllStar game would show the world that you are special...something more than an AllStar- which I believe can be translated into not only more endorsement ops but into things that benefit the team like Walls Foul Calls at the rim when the contact could be called or overlooked as incidental contact.

I think the "super star" foul calls are actually a form of selection bias.

Where the refs see the numbers, the faces the men, the uniform and then based on selection bias at a split nano second determines if there is an infraction on many of the calls.

I.E. because of selection bias the refs guinuinely didnt see Lebron travel at the end of the Wiz vs Cavs game (when he missed the lay up) or Jordan push off against the Jazz in the finals before that jump shot to win it all. The refs are caught up in the moment and watching how these SUPERSTARS do things of legend-which is fine if it works for you or to your teams benifit.

Well when I watched the AllStar game with all of Cobra gathered around for Sunday dinner, I noticed the person people were most in awe of from the less than house hold names was Giannis Antetokounmpo. Everything he did seemed to defy gravity and or physics. Yes he is tall but he was graceful and ferocious! Remember when Westbrook was in the AllStar game and he was KDs sidekick until he wasnt...Westbrook used every opportunity to set himself in a class different than anyone else but Lebron.

Its interesting to see how the big names in sports do the same things great businesses do...leverage every opportunity while good players and OK businesses go to conventions to be there and have fun. Lebron and Westbrook said all the right things. Its all about coming together to enjoy the weekend with your comrades...except Westbrook gave you 40 when the team was under orders to give the ball to Davis so he would win MVP in his home town and Lebron did dunks that would win the Dunk Contest. Westbrook selling the "I am a alpha male' brand and Lebron selling shoes because KIDS LOVE DUNKS more than 3s and Kids beg to buy shoes and Kids Grow up and buy more expensive shoes- Lebron knows winning and being superhuman sells shoes so he wins rings and uses the Allstar weekend to validate that he is supernatural. And before you say..."why didnt he join the dunk contest and win that...wouldn't that sell MORE shoes".

Well here is the calculus on that- Lebron KNOWs like you and I know- that there are YouTube Dunkers that are better than anyone in the NBA. or so we think..but what if one of those dudes is sitting at the end of the bench on a bad team- waiting for his chance to beat down Lebron. Why would Lebron jump into a competition with some young kid that cant ball as well as Lebron but is a better athelete. and since he aint playing in the games all he DOES is work on Dunks in his spare time- like Zack used to. If Lebron lost to that kid he would lose some luster and sell a few less shoes. SO Lebron uses the allstar game to show off with minimal risk. You guys remember Lebron didnt even want people to know Jordan Crawford dunked on him at a camp because.....IT WOULD HURT THE BRAND. Everyone that has played ball for real has been dunked on if they play defense at the rim...even your cobra commander...but i like Lebron has Destro confiscate the footage and unlike Lebron i went a step further and had Storm Shadow off the filthy GI-Joe that caught me slippin and tried to give me the salty sack.

But I digress- Lebron knows- the more he shoes he sells the richer he gets and the richer he gets the more his name rings out and the greater the methology around him! And the more the methology around him the greater his esteem the more likely he will get calls in his favor. The more calls in your favor the more likely you are to win if all things are close to equal and the vicious cycle goes on.

Back to Wall and his 4 wasted oppertunities to set him self apart on the international stage, his agent should be telling him this...but either his agent doesnt know or his agent is best friends with Lebron (which means some info is off limits unless specifically asked about). I am saying if Wall wants SuperStar calls which help the Wiz he needs to take advantage of every chance he gets on the big stage under the big lights...and if that is the case...the allstar game is one of those chances wasted.

[queridiculo]

Honestly, who gives a ****.

Can't even call that circus a scrimmage and Wall's on-off jumper isn't really something that translates in those kind of games anyway.

Washington just needs to start winning on a regular basis and all of the other stuff like popularity, All-Star votes and jersey sales will follow.